Falcon and Winter Soldier Season 1, Episode 2: “The Star Spangled Man” (SPOILERS)

[The Caped Knight]

I meant more in terms of a MCU film/mini-series.

I think it might be explored by his grandson Eil Bradley who will become The Patriot in the Young Avengers.

 

[RiXi]

Crazy theory. I feel like Bucky's doctor might be working for Zemo. Giving him every detail about Buck and he'll use that against him.

 

[moviedoors]

You really don't see the difference? It's like night (or in this case, indoors) and day to me. If they ARE using the same tech, the Mando team did a much better job of creating the illusion of sunlight/outdoors, imo. Like, I think maybe some shots in the F&TWS one were ACTUALLY shot outdoors, which just makes the ones that clearly weren't stand out even more.

Not only is THE MANDOLORIAN the more convincing in terms of VFX of the two scenes, I think the filmmaking is also better. Better pacing, better editing, better blocking. The F&TWS one just felt sloppy.

 

[Schlosser85]

Crazy theory. I feel like Bucky's doctor might be working for Zemo. Giving him every detail about Buck and he'll use that against him.

That could be an interesting twist. Why though? What would be her part in it, motivation-wise?

 

[Marvolo]

Crazy theory. I feel like Bucky's doctor might be working for Zemo. Giving him every detail about Buck and he'll use that against him.

Not that crazy. Its the sort of thing I'd expect from a story like this.

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

Crazy theory. I feel like Bucky's doctor might be working for Zemo. Giving him every detail about Buck and he'll use that against him.

damn i didn't even think of this. pretty good

what if they flipped the casting for dr faustus

 

[Kev4000]

In my rewatch somehow I feel different about the ending of the therapy scene:

Sam says to Bucky they do the mission and they never have to meet each other again. And then he left and Bucks asks: "What was rule number 2 again" - "Noone gets hurt." - "Thanks, doc."

Did Bucky complaining here because Sams statement hurts him mentally? Auuuuuh, Bucky

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Hydra doesn't need to still exist for the Power Broker to be connected to Hydra. Not everyone who once was a member died, after all, and we know some Hydra remnants existed at *least* circa the first Ant-Man movie.

. . . also, saying Zemo was "never Hydra" is maybe *technically* true but only in a not especially meaningful sense. He was a well positioned state security officer in a government which was wholly owned and controlled by Hydra, and who knew enough about Hydra activity and operations to climb the ladder up to the organizations deepest darkest secrets. Which is to say, if he wasn't technically Hydra, it was because Hydra didn't feel the need to hand out ID badges to every well-informed auxiliary.

When was Sokovia on screen in the MCU referenced as a totally controlled nation state under Hydra's thumb?

I don't recall that.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You really don't see the difference? It's like night (or in this case, indoors) and day to me. If they ARE using the same tech, the Mando team did a much better job of creating the illusion of sunlight/outdoors, imo. Like, I think maybe some shots in the F&TWS one were ACTUALLY shot outdoors, which just makes the ones that clearly weren't stand out even more.

I really don't see some vast difference in quality flick.

As stated is it at a slightly less polished level than a lot of MCU movies (with higher budgets)? Yeah.

But then again I don't have particular bugaboos about color grading and the like. I think actually both scenes have an occasional angle where the "digital seams" can be apparent as it were but they both came off as convincing as they needed to be. Plus if you look at the fight choreography and the additional VFX of Falcon zooming around and under vehicles, Walker and Hoskins joining in via chopper etc., the F&WS scene looks like it was a lot more difficult to pull off with a lot more moving parts and editing required to bring all its elements together.

 

[flickchick85]

I really don't see some vast difference in quality flick.

As stated is it at a slightly less polished level than a lot of MCU movies (with higher budgets)? Yeah.

But then again I don't have particular bugaboos about color grading and the like. I think actually both scenes have an occasional angle where the "digital seams" can be apparent as it were but they both came off as convincing as they needed to be. Plus if you look at the fight choreography and the additional VFX of Falcon zooming around and under vehicles, Walker and Hoskins joining in via chopper etc., the F&WS scene looks like it was a lot more difficult to pull off with a lot more moving parts and editing required to bring all its elements together.

This one just looks much sloppier to me, but to each their own!

 

[scarlet-witch]

I wonder if they mention the events of Wandavision at all in this or if SWORD kept that under wraps? I know this was supposed to come out first originally, but they also had time to change things with reshoots.

 

[legendkillin]

I wonder if they mention the events of Wandavision at all in this or if SWORD kept that under wraps? I know this was supposed to come out first originally, but they also had time to change things with reshoots.

It will probably be kept under wraps, the FBI was involved too and it was really in a small scale area that Wanda impacted. The events on this show are more likely to get mentioned on another show like Hawkeye.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It will probably be kept under wraps, the FBI was involved too and it was really in a small scale area that Wanda impacted. The events on this show are more likely to get mentioned on another show like Hawkeye.

Eh...

A whole town of men, women and children of all ages was seized by a depressed super hero who altered their reality and kept people against their wills...

Unless the powers that be are going to lock everyone up, including agents of various Federal authorities or... Kill them all to silence them... It's hard to think it would even be possible to paper over all that.

 

[legendkillin]

Eh...

A whole town of men, women and children of all ages was seized by a depressed super hero who altered their reality and kept people against their wills...

Unless the powers that be are going to lock everyone up, including agents of various Federal authorities or... Kill them all to silence them... It's hard to think it would even be possible to paper over all that.

Someone may eventually speak but I don't think it will be big widespread news. It was a small town that didn't seem like it got a lot of traffic through it.

Any of the SWORD agents were just following orders, the ones arrested were mainly arrested for operating on Vision and doing things like that.

Darcy is a tech genius so if they wanted to hide any visuals or info she could likely do it.

Some may talk but none of the Westview people have actual proof with pictures.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Someone may eventually speak but I don't think it will be big widespread news. It was a small town that didn't seem like it got a lot of traffic through it.

Any of the SWORD agents were just following orders, the ones arrested were mainly arrested for operating on Vision and doing things like that.

Darcy is a tech genius so if they wanted to hide any visuals or info she could likely do it.

Some may talk but none of the Westview people have actual proof with pictures.

You'll forgive me but... None of that passes any kind of smell test.

Children were taken. Masses of them.

Kids have ZERO self control. They couldn't keep this secret.

And their parents wouldn't want to.

They'd be out for justice. This wasn't a few dozen folk. This was a whole town IN NEW JERSEY.

Not, pardon the expression, bum-**** Idaho.

I think it's a stretch to say this kind of event would be able to stay under the radar. Especially in the day and age of the Internet and social media.

 

[Marvolo]

You'll forgive me but... None of that passes any kind of smell test.

Children were taken. Masses of them.

Kids have ZERO self control. They couldn't keep this secret.

And their parents wouldn't want to.

They'd be out for justice. This wasn't a few dozen folk. This was a whole town IN NEW JERSEY.

Not, pardon the expression, bum-**** Idaho.

I think it's a stretch to say this kind of event would be able to stay under the radar. Especially in the day and age of the Internet and social media.

Yep. A lot of those kidnapped people would have had families and friends outside that town too. A lot of missing persons reports would have been filed during that situation.

Some of the children in that town would go to schools outside of the town, and would have missed a lot of school.

Commercial and private planes would have needed to be diverted.

Mail delivery services would have needed to be diverted.

Restaurant corporations and franchises would have noticed something was up when their restaurants in that town suddenly stopped all contact and stopped ordering stock and turning in pay rolls and stopped contacting their DMs.

There is probably at least one Walmart somewhere in that town. When it went quite and stopped communicating with the corporate offices and suppliers that would have set off red flags.

Any one of these things would be enough to get a local or national news network sniffing around.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yep. A lot of those kidnapped people would have had families and friends outside that town too. A lot of missing persons reports would have been filed during that situation.

Some of the children in that town would go to schools outside of the town, and would have missed a lot of school.

Commercial and private planes would have needed to be diverted.

Mail delivery services would have needed to be diverted.

Restaurant corporations and franchises would have noticed something was up when their restaurants in that town suddenly stopped all contact and stopped ordering stock and turning in pay rolls and stopped contacting their DMs.

There is probably at least one Walmart somewhere in that town. When it went quite and stopped communicating with the corporate offices and suppliers that would have set off red flags.

Any one of these things would be enough to get a local or national news network sniffing around.

 

[RockSP]

Yep. A lot of those kidnapped people would have had families and friends outside that town too. A lot of missing persons reports would have been filed during that situation.

No the people outside the town didn't remember their family and friends in the town. This was explained in episode 4.

Some of the children in that town would go to schools outside of the town, and would have missed a lot of school.

Commercial and private planes would have needed to be diverted.

Mail delivery services would have needed to be diverted.

Restaurant corporations and franchises would have noticed something was up when their restaurants in that town suddenly stopped all contact and stopped ordering stock and turning in pay rolls and stopped contacting their DMs.

There is probably at least one Walmart somewhere in that town. When it went quite and stopped communicating with the corporate offices and suppliers that would have set off red flags.

Any one of these things would be enough to get a local or national news network sniffing around.

It is safe to assume that all falls under the "forgotten spell". Not saying people wouldn't talk afterwards...I'm strictly talking during The Hex.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

No the people outside the town didn't remember their family and friends in the town. This was explained in episode 4.



It is safe to assume that all falls under the "forgotten spell". Not saying people wouldn't talk afterwards...I'm strictly talking during The Hex.

I'd have to rewatch...

Scratch that...

I'll take your word for it.


But... Man I don't remember that at all.

 

[RockSP]

I'd have to rewatch...

Scratch that...

I'll take your word for it.


But... Man I don't remember that at all.

When Monica first gets to the scene with Woo and the cops. The cops say Westview doesn't exist. Woo said he contacted the wit sec guy's family, and they didn't know who he was talking about. Monica ponders why she and Jimmy aren't affected.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

When Monica first gets to the scene with Woo and the cops. The cops say Westview doesn't exist. Woo said he contacted the wit sec guy's family, and they didn't know who he was talking about. Monica ponders why she and Jimmy aren't affected.

 

[Zyraquis]

They may as well explore another one off series called Patriot, and further dig into the complexities of race, nationalism and patriotism especially during those very testing times (Isaiah’s story), to juxtapose it with the current MCU timeline and issues (Elijah’s story).

Only thing is whether that relatively young actor can carry a full series is a question mark, though they hired a newest actress for Ms Marvel so it’s not impossible.

 

[Fosterson]

. . . also, saying Zemo was "never Hydra" is maybe *technically* true but only in a not especially meaningful sense. He was a well positioned state security officer in a government which was wholly owned and controlled by Hydra,

There was never any indication that Hydra was controlling the entire country of Sokovia. They had a base there, sure and the regular Sokovian military was probably too weak to get rid of them, but I don't think Strucker and List were actually giving marching orders to the Sokovian government.

That being said, it certainly seems likely that Hydra did become quite popular for a time in the country based on Wanda and Pietro's radicalization, due to them being enemies of Shield, the Avengers and the United States.

and who knew enough about Hydra activity and operations to climb the ladder up to the organizations deepest darkest secrets. Which is to say, if he wasn't technically Hydra, it was because Hydra didn't feel the need to hand out ID badges to every well-informed auxiliary.

Zemo didn't climb any ladder. He simply decrypted the data that Black Widow leaked at the end of TWS.

He makes his distaste for Hydra clear in this scene:



(2:36)

"Hydra deserves its place on the ash-heap"

 

[Kev4000]

They may as well explore another one off series called Patriot, and further dig into the complexities of race, nationalism and patriotism especially during those very testing times (Isaiah’s story), to juxtapose it with the current MCU timeline and issues (Elijah’s story).

So after 2 months with Disney+ people demanding already a Woo-Files-Series, a series for Monica Rambeau, an stand-alone movie for Agatha, a season 2 of Wandavision and now a series of the 50s/60s series with another super soldier? I cant count them anymore.

Just no. You can adress all this in a serious argument scene or even make some flashback scenes, you dont need a whole series, which has really nothing to show for the future of the MCU. I think those demands are all too much and I am worry to see a clear red line in the MCU anymore.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Yep. A lot of those kidnapped people would have had families and friends outside that town too. A lot of missing persons reports would have been filed during that situation.

Some of the children in that town would go to schools outside of the town, and would have missed a lot of school.

Commercial and private planes would have needed to be diverted.

Mail delivery services would have needed to be diverted.

Restaurant corporations and franchises would have noticed something was up when their restaurants in that town suddenly stopped all contact and stopped ordering stock and turning in pay rolls and stopped contacting their DMs.

There is probably at least one Walmart somewhere in that town. When it went quite and stopped communicating with the corporate offices and suppliers that would have set off red flags.

Any one of these things would be enough to get a local or national news network sniffing around.

Jimmy specifically says people connected outside the town don’t remember the people inside.


How that works...it’s comic science.