Far From Home Spider-Man: Far From Home General Discussion and Speculation - Part 2

[Toomes' Phone]

It’s not debatable. Sony ran the franchise into the ground so hard that marvel had to reinvent the wheel and make spidey marketable again. Gotg and cap were making more than marvel’s flagship character. So of course they made him like a mini iron man to stray away from what Sony did. Sony almost destroyed Spider-Man.

When this deal was being made you had people saying they didn’t want peter anymore cause he’s boring they’d rather have frickin miles. Miles!

Sony did that.

Comic con 2013. Loki got a huge applause at hall h
Spider-Man came out in full costume and nobody cared.

The character was being ruined. How anyone can think asm and Sony are great for Spider-Man is beyond me

This. And tbh the sheer awfulness of the TASM films made me appreciate SM3 a hell of a lot more.

 

[GuestStar2004]

It’s not debatable. Sony ran the franchise into the ground so hard that marvel had to reinvent the wheel and make spidey marketable again.

Spider-man was never not markable. even the film that people claimed underperformed still made 700 million. and that is ALOT of people going to see that movie. yes Sony over payed and in turn lost money but the issue was more on them then it was Spider-man.

Gotg and cap were making more than marvel’s flagship character.

Captain America: Winter soldier made about 10 million more then TASM2.

GOTG made a fair amount more than both. but still just abit under 800 mil.

So of course they made him like a mini iron man to stray away from what Sony did. Sony almost destroyed Spider-Man

Ok now you are stretching.

When this deal was being made you had people saying they didn’t want peter anymore cause he’s boring they’d rather have frickin miles. Miles!

Who the hell was saying that? lol

Comic con 2013. Loki got a huge applause at hall h
Spider-Man came out in full costume and nobody cared.

Either this is selective memory or you are just making stuff up now.

 

[ironwez20]

ummmm
Hall h Loki

https://youtu.be/3R9g_VABesA

Hall h asm2 panel

https://youtu.be/FUFTZ0sKgdk

No one claps when spidey arrives. Loki has a a way bigger draw then freaking Spider-Man . You got some claps but not as huge as Loki

Google is your friend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...l-spider-man-black-miles-morales-peter-parker


https://www.hypable.com/spider-man-tom-holland-great-responsibility/

And what do you mean stretch. It’s literally known that Sony almost killed the brand. Were u living under a rock? Spider-Man by no means shouldn’t be losing to cap or gotg. He’s way to popular. You can tell the brand was dying due to a premature reboot.

Also we are talking about movies here buddy. So of course I’m talking about the movie side of spidey dying. Which it was. I can give you more receipts if you like.

Sony wanted this to be a billion dollar movie but it sucked.

 

[Toomes' Phone]

Also who gives a rat's ass about how many people ended up seeing the TASM films when the important thing is what people thought of them AFTER they saw them. Sure, maybe TASM2 wasn't really a bomb, but nearly everyone who saw it thought it was a reprehensible POS all the same. I mean, if you like the Webb films, that's fine, I know people who do, but even they agree that it's a good thing that the TASM series is now defunct and Spidey is with people who know how to make consistently great films.

 

[Krystal]

Yeah, I regret the waste of money I spent on ASM2. I was there first day and I was appalled how fast they lost track after one decent movie. It's one of only maybe 4 Marvel comic based movies I have seen only one time. The Blade and Ghost Rider I have seen only once each on home video.

FFINO I have never seen even once. I figure if I die and I get where I'm going and I see a theater showing FFINO -- I ended up in the "bad place"

 

[Toomes' Phone]

Yeah, I regret the waste of money I spent on ASM2. I was there first day and I was appalled how fast they lost track after one decent movie. It's one of only maybe 4 Marvel comic based movies I have seen only one time. The Blade and Ghost Rider I have seen only once each on home video.

FFINO I have never seen even once. I figure if I die and I get where I'm going and I see a theater showing FFINO -- I ended up in the "bad place"

I actually hate TASM more than TASM2 lol. At least 2 is bad in an interesting way, TASM is just a dreary bore imo.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Also who gives a rat's ass about how many people ended up seeing the TASM films when the important thing is what people thought of them AFTER they saw them. Sure, maybe TASM2 wasn't really a bomb, but nearly everyone who saw it thought it was a reprehensible POS all the same. I mean, if you like the Webb films, that's fine, I know people who do, but even they agree that it's a good thing that the TASM series is now defunct and Spidey is with people who know how to make consistently great films.

No... No that's not right. I say this as someone that thinks TASM2 is a mess. But don't project the fanboy mindset on everyone else. At best most thought it was lackluster like S-M3 and moved on with their lives without expending the emotional energy the online fans with no sense of proportion do.

 

[Toomes' Phone]

No... No that's not right. I say this as someone that thinks TASM2 is a mess. But don't project the fanboy mindset on everyone else. At best most thought it was lackluster like S-M3 and moved on with their lives without expending the emotional energy the online fans with no sense of proportion do.

Hating a movie isn't a fanboy mindset. And I very distinctly remember people on here literally right after it came out being extremely depressed and angry about how bad it was. Mods were even open about how much they hated it. And unlike with SM3, there haven't been any reappraisals of it or the first one, both are to this day held up alongside Fant4stic and The Mummy on how NOT to build a franchise. I'm not making any of this up, and my feelings about this aren't even that strong anymore, so please don't accuse me of fanboy outrage.

 

[ironwez20]

I was hyped for the movie. Thought asm was decent. I think fanboys like us hated the film while the GA didn’t seem to care anymore about Spider-Man or his world. The mcu was growing at the time and Sony kept making the character uninteresting to the GA. Forcing a universe just made them not care even more. You got maybe a hand full at the most that like what Sony did but the majority of us hated it.

To be honest. Asm2 got a lot of hate during its promotion. So many mcu fans kept saying give it back to marvel, and this look like a video game without seeing the film. The franchise was at a very bad place. Spider-Man is stable now and I hope it stays that way.

 

[The Joker]

Both TASM and TASM 2 are horrendous. But TASM 2 is the worst of the two.

 

[GuestStar2004]

To be honest. Asm2 got a lot of hate during its promotion. So many mcu fans kept saying give it back to marvel, and this look like a video game without seeing the film. The franchise was at a very bad place. Spider-Man is stable now and I hope it stays that way.

Well the hate you are talking about is about the same as any movie tbh. the video game stuff is basically the default complaint for any CGI in film if its not perfect.

Its fair to say that if you look around online you will find many people complaining about Homecoming, about how they want the director replaced because they don't want this version of Mary jane or they don't want him to be iron man jr. or aunt may shouldn't know who he is. or the film shouldn't be a straight out comedy. all this stuff.

I remember around the time of TASM2 there were also alot of people putting down the Raimi movies because of the stuff they didn't like how they made mary jane a ***** or how green goblin was like a power rangers villain, peter being a cry baby. the dance, no wit, all that stuff and that seemed to be a growing thing around that time because TASM was new and fresher at that time.

 

[zipzip]

Tasm2 aka the dark times nice to see Spider-man as a thriving franchise again

 

[GuestStar2004]

ummmm
Hall h Loki

https://youtu.be/3R9g_VABesA

Hall h asm2 panel

https://youtu.be/FUFTZ0sKgdk

No one claps when spidey arrives. Loki has a a way bigger draw then freaking Spider-Man . You got some claps but not as huge as Loki

You just contradicted yourself in your own post just to be over dramatic didn't you.

Google is your friend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...l-spider-man-black-miles-morales-peter-parker


https://www.hypable.com/spider-man-tom-holland-great-responsibility/

I don't know neither of these sites. let alone how wide spread these opinions are among the internet.

And what do you mean stretch. It’s literally known that Sony almost killed the brand. Were u living under a rock? Spider-Man by no means shouldn’t be losing to cap or gotg. He’s way to popular. You can tell the brand was dying due to a premature reboot.

If they were killing it then it must have been dying very slowly with people paying to watch.

Sony wanted this to be a billion dollar movie but it sucked.

They needed it to break a billion.

 

[ehh]

Would they though? Personally i ain't convinced they haven't set up a backdoor plan for him since why would Sony want to recast again? and why would they wanna be put in a spot where they had too?

Yes, they would have to recast. Tom Holland's Spider-Man is a co-creation of Sony and Marvel. Any story involving Holland's Peter Parker/Spider-Man is MCU related. If they put Tom Holland's Spider-Man in a Sony spin-off film, that automatically ties that universe to the MCU.

Not much will change beyond not having Marvel as safety net

Are you sure about that? Have you seen what Sony has done with Spider-Man prior to the Marvel deal? Also, please see my above statement.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Yes, they would have to recast. Tom Holland's Spider-Man is a co-creation of Sony and Marvel. Any story involving Holland's Peter Parker/Spider-Man is MCU related. If they put Tom Holland's Spider-Man in a Sony spin-off film, that automatically ties that universe to the MCU.

Well there doesn't seem to be alot of certainty of where Venom stands in that area. it would certainly be in Sonys best interest to have a backdoor plan, presumbaly set up with marvel during the deal planning stage.

Now you could argue why would marvel let them do that?... its about compromise. its always been a sorta risk because if Sony and Marvel fell out and didn't renew the deal then Spider-man would disappear from the MCU anyway.

Are you sure about that? Have you seen what Sony has done with Spider-Man prior to the Marvel deal? Also, please see my above statement.

Yeah and i also see what they are still doing.

Most the time we forget Spider-man in the Spiderverse and is an all Sony movie. now whether that does well or not who knows but they clearly hope it does and will branch out into more movies. Sony are not hiding behind marvel right now, they have marvel there on the sideline but they are still doing their own thing.

 

[ehh]

Well there doesn't seem to be alot of certainty of where Venom stands in that area.

It's been confirmed that Venom is not tied to the MCU. It could theoretically change in the future, but at the moment, it is not connected, and I doubt it will ever be.

Most the time we forget Spider-man in the Spiderverse and is an all Sony movie. now whether that does well or not who knows but they clearly hope it does and will branch out into more movies.

Huh?

Sony are not hiding behind marvel right now, they have marvel there on the sideline but they are still doing their own thing.

Sony is scraping the bottom of the barrel for any Spider-Man character and make a movie about it. Basically they are squeezing the cash cow for all its worth.

I appreciate the upcoming Into the Spider-Verse film, but the live action spin-offs... it's not looking too good.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Huh?

Your quote

Have you seen what Sony has done with Spider-Man prior to the Marvel deal?

I have and i still do see what they are doing and they haven't stopped producing their own spider-man material

 

[ehh]

I have and i still do see what they are doing and they haven't stopped producing their own spider-man material

Well Venom will be the first Sony produced movie (without Marvel) since TASM2. ITSV will be the second, but since it is animated, it is sort of it's own thing.

 

[ironwez20]

You just contradicted yourself in your own post just to be over dramatic didn't you.



I don't know neither of these sites. let alone how wide spread these opinions are among the internet.



If they were killing it then it must have been dying very slowly with people paying to watch.



They needed it to break a billion.

How did I contradict myself? You said I made it up and I gave you proof. What?

Who cares if you never heard of the sites. People still wanted that to happen. You asked who said that and I told you. Lol wtf

Lol yea they needed to break a billion but the movie was awful so they didn’t.

 

[ironwez20]

Well the hate you are talking about is about the same as any movie tbh. the video game stuff is basically the default complaint for any CGI in film if its not perfect.

Its fair to say that if you look around online you will find many people complaining about Homecoming, about how they want the director replaced because they don't want this version of Mary jane or they don't want him to be iron man jr. or aunt may shouldn't know who he is. or the film shouldn't be a straight out comedy. all this stuff.

I remember around the time of TASM2 there were also alot of people putting down the Raimi movies because of the stuff they didn't like how they made mary jane a ***** or how green goblin was like a power rangers villain, peter being a cry baby. the dance, no wit, all that stuff and that seemed to be a growing thing around that time because TASM was new and fresher at that time.

Yea you had people saying that but that’s cause they thought amazing would be a better franchise and now people are changing there tune. Now the raimi films are some of the best spidey films ever made and the Webb films are now looked at as the worst part of spidey movie career. Funny how that works. People were on tasm dude cause it was new. After tasm2 was released people saw it was garbage. I regret I use to be the one to say the raimi films weren’t so comic accurate

 

[GuestStar2004]

Yea you had people saying that but that’s cause they thought amazing would be a better franchise and now people are changing there tune. Now the raimi films are some of the best spidey films ever made

No right now its the marvel spider-man movies that are the best ones ever made. anything before it sucks in comparison. everyone wants to ride the current coaster as the best one and since there is no where else spider-man can go you really have to enjoy marvels spider-man for what it is and not see it as less than you may have wanted it to be.

 

[GuestStar2004]

How did I contradict myself? You said I made it up and I gave you proof. What?

You said there was no clapping and in the same post you said there was clapping.

You made an effort to over dramatize it and it just became an exaggeration.

 

[ironwez20]

You said there was no clapping and in the same post you said there was clapping.

You made an effort to over dramatize it and it just became an exaggeration.

Lol my man when Spider-Man came out almost no one clapped. Now look at the Loki video. Almost everyone in the hall clapped. Just stop

 

[ironwez20]

No right now its the marvel spider-man movies that are the best ones ever made. anything before it sucks in comparison. everyone wants to ride the current coaster as the best one and since there is no where else spider-man can go you really have to enjoy marvels spider-man for what it is and not see it as less than you may have wanted it to be.

Uh where have u been reading at? I think you need to look around a bit more. While people do love mcu spidey people still hold Spider-Man 2 up in high regard as the movie to beat. Spider-Man 2 to this day is still the best Spider-Man movie of all time. Sure you have some that say peter could been better but there is no doubt Spider-Man 2 is always brought up when talking about the top Spider-Man or even hero movies

 

[Moridin]

It makes no financial sense for Sony to take Spidey out of the MCU.

Under Sony, the Spider-man film budgets were ballooning, while the box office results were deflating, with all evidence pointing to Sony having no idea of how to turn that around.

The association with the MCU brings a few of major positives:
- Massive free advertising. Appearing in the likes of Civil War ($1.1bn) & Infinity War ($2bn), and Avengers4 is bringing a level of awareness and goodwill most companies would kill for.

- Marvel handling production has brought the budget way down and delivered a film that's good enough to bring in bigger box office = more $$$ for Sony without them really having to much of anything. Track record suggests this will continue for FFH.

- A long future for Spidey. With X-Men & F4 coming back the options for different types of team-ups and adventures gets even bigger, keeping things fresh for longer.


What does a Venom-verse offer to trump that? Best case scenario for Venom, if it's really good, it makes less than 1/4 of what IW made. The other projects Sony are developing? Less that that again. Meaning if Sony wanted to make the big bucks again they'd have to make Spidey more spectacle oriented, meaning increasing the budgets. But Sony's track record suggests they wouldn't be able to keep putting out consistently good movies, so the box office goes down again.

So the way I see it, Sony make more money off Spidey if he's in the MCU rather than a Venom-verse.

Spider-man was never not markable. even the film that people claimed underperformed still made 700 million. and that is ALOT of people going to see that movie. yes Sony over payed and in turn lost money but the issue was more on them then it was Spider-man.

So you agree, Sony is the problem, not Spidey.

It's been confirmed that Venom is not tied to the MCU. It could theoretically change in the future, but at the moment, it is not connected, and I doubt it will ever be.

Yeah. Sony clearly want to backdoor themselves into the MCU, hence Pascal's comments last year about Venom being "MCU adjacent", giving us that hilarious Feige reaction.

As well as comments from the Venom crew about going up against Spidey down the line. Sony want it to happen, because it's money in the bank.

Like you I don't see it happening at all. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony/Marvel deal had a stipulation that Sony couldn't use the Holland Spidey in movies not co-produced by Marvel, thus stopping Sony from hitching extra wagons to the MCU.

There's no way Marvel allow films they have no creative control over into the MCU, that would be asking for trouble.