The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - Part 152

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[Snow Queen]

http://uproxx.com/filmdrunk/2014/11...as-revealed-about-heath-ledgers-joker-role/2/

Never heard about the issues they had with the opening before. Interesting. Thanks for the link. t:

 

[Graphix Monster]

where is a good place to post bane costume completions?

 

[The Joker]

Never heard about the issues they had with the opening before. Interesting. Thanks for the link. t:

My pleasure.

where is a good place to post bane costume completions?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=393569&highlight=bane

 

[Ryan]

Interesting article ranking all of Nolan's films from the Following to Interstellar.


http://variety.com/2014/film/news/r...nolan-from-following-to-inception-1201345787/

 

[The Joker]

Interesting article ranking all of Nolan's films from the Following to Interstellar.


http://variety.com/2014/film/news/r...nolan-from-following-to-inception-1201345787/

Wow they're not very fond of TDKR are they. I mean they both rank it below The Following, and one of them even ranks it last.

They both agree on the top two (Memento/TDK).

 

[The Batman]

Very telling how one of them says that even when he was more positive about TDKR, he thought it was letdown after TDK.

 

[Travesty]

Barker summed up my thoughts on it almost perfectly.

BARKER: Speaking of crushing disappointments, I’m not sure I can think of an appropriate nouvelle vague equivalent for Nolan’s progression from “The Dark Knight” to “The Dark Knight Rises.” The quality gulf between parts two and three of “The Godfather” comes readily to mind, but perhaps Cecil B. DeMille’s “The Greatest Show on Earth” would be a more apt comparison. In both cases, you have a superbly accomplished director, armed with seemingly limitless resources, pushing his particular pet obsessions to the very precipice of self-parody. Considering it follows what I consider the greatest comicbook movie of all time, I tried my best to give it the benefit of the doubt, but “Rises” remains the only Nolan film I actively dislike. At times it almost seems to be courting that animosity: It’s a nearly three-hour film without a single moment of respite, a summer blockbuster whose only remotely fun character (Anne Hathaway’s far-better-than-expected Selina Kyle) is hardly given anything to do.

Yet the film’s biggest sin is its relentless bombast — like a simple folk melody gussied up in the trappings of a Strauss opera, the scale of the production is thoroughly out of sync with its underlying ideas. There’s also something deeply perverse about Nolan’s decision to make his most loquacious character (Tom Hardy’s Bane) borderline inaudible, his garbled bromides against the ruling class frequently lost in the thunder of Hans Zimmer’s score. (At times it’s like listening to a nitrous-addled philosophy major lecture you from the front row of a Sunn O))) concert.) There’s no disputing the audacity of some of the film’s best setpieces, and Nolan’s commitment to testing the limits of PG-13 superhero violence is philosophically admirable. But like almost everything in “The Dark Knight Rises,” it’s taken several steps further than it needs to go.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

While I'm not that hard on the film and never have been... it's difficult to overly argue with his opinion.

 

[shauner111]

I never had a problem with Bane's voice so i gotta disagree with everything he said about that.

 

[BatLobster]

If that sums up your thoughts Trav then you're actually a lot more fair-minded about the movie than you've ever let on.

For my end of the spectrum...I kind of see what he's getting at, everything in the movie is turned up to 11, but I guess that's kind of what I love about it. I think they needed to at least attempt to 'go there' in order to go out with a bang, especially after TDK. Whether or not they succeeded all comes down to opinion, but I think to a certain extent you've got to at least admire the intent.

Though I unabashedly love Bane, to me he was loads of fun/cool/creepy/funny/badass.

 

[Tequilla]

Prestige at 7th ? THE HELL !!!!!!!

Prestige ; Memento
TDKR
Begins

TDK
Inception

Insomnia
Following

Barker opinion is strange. It looks like one of my hyperbolic posts that makes no sense.

without a single moment of respite

What? Between Bruce's defeat and his reapparence , is the film really....

relentless bombast

Off course not.

a summer blockbuster whose only remotely fun character

Loved Bane tooo...

(Anne Hathaway’s far-better-than-expected Selina Kyle

What ?

pushing his particular pet obsessions to the very precipice of self-parody

What ? (i dont even understand this. Might be my crappy english)

the scale of the production is thoroughly out of sync with its underlying ideas

What ?
The bombastic nature of the film is exactly aligned with the eruption and clash of classes. Gotham's self destruction is not intimate.

make his most loquacious character (Tom Hardy’s Bane) borderline inaudible, his garbled bromides

Im Portuguese and i understood it. I blame Barker ears

against the ruling class frequently lost in the thunder of Hans Zimmer’s score.

This means nothing. Like the chaos joker generates lost in the percussive passages of Zimmer score. It's a text garnish

Nolan’s commitment to testing the limits of PG-13 superhero violence is philosophically admirable

What ?

(At times it’s like listening to a nitrous-addled philosophy major lecture you from the front row of a Sunn O)))

This dude is a philosopher. No doubt.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah, that was horribly written. One of those reviewers who thinks using big words will make him look cool or something, even if they don't make sense in the context of what he's trying to say.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Agreed. You can almost feel him thumbing through his thesaurus with this review.

 

[Travesty]

If that sums up your thoughts Trav then you're actually a lot more fair-minded about the movie than you've ever let on.

Not sure how you're equating a 2 paragraph synopsis, to having chats on a forum, where we can get into the minutia of almost every detail within the movie. What we do here is more varied and nuanced. I love the hell out of BB, but there's been plenty of times where I've ripped certain parts of that movie apart.

 

[Ryan]

I probably relate the most to the last sentence in Barker's review. I have many gripes with the film, but I still liked Hardy's performance and had no problems understanding his dialogue.

 

[JackWhite]

I probably relate the most to the last sentence in Barker's review. I have many gripes with the film, but I still liked Hardy's performance and had no problems understanding his dialogue.

If anything, Hardy's voice was far too clear at times where it sounded like a different character altogether. When Bane is delivering his speech at Blackgate he sounds completely different during that scene as opposed to say when he kills Daggett and his second appearance after the prologue.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah, the two scenes that were so obvious was the prologue and BlackGate speech. The prologue originally had complaints and that's why it was done, but i also understand why ADR needed to happen for the big speech. But this is why im dying to see a cut with the original voice throughout the film.

The 2011 prologue still gives me chills when he opens with "Or perhaps.." Now, i just have fun with it, but it's not sinister like the oldie. I get chills just thinking about what the original blackgate speech sounded like. I dont care if it's so muffled, by now i know the dialogue by heart so it wont bother me. I might consider selling my left nut for it.

 

[BatLobster]

Not sure how you're equating a 2 paragraph synopsis, to having chats on a forum, where we can get into the minutia of almost every detail within the movie. What we do here is more varied and nuanced. I love the hell out of BB, but there's been plenty of times where I've ripped certain parts of that movie apart.

Actually, after re-reading the excerpt I kinda take that back, haha. I thought it was more of a case of him simply finding it disappointing after TDK, rather than outright disliking it. But yeah, that was my bad for not reading that carefully.

 

[Brother Jack]

If anything, Hardy's voice was far too clear at times where it sounded like a different character altogether. When Bane is delivering his speech at Blackgate he sounds completely different during that scene as opposed to say when he kills Daggett and his second appearance after the prologue.

The Blackgate speech made sense to me as Bane presenting himself to the public as a spokesman. It was a somewhat different personality than how he came off among his men or otherwise private conversations. He was selling a persona as a politician would. Which of course was mostly untrue. The clarity and timber of the voice there fits with that.

 

[DACrowe]

Well reading Variety's pieces, and it's interesting how hard they are on Rises retroactively. If the takeaway is always that it is a lesser film than TDK, I think we can all agree. I think ranking it below Insomnia though is just snobbery (and I like Insomnia...well enough).

Anyway, for me, it goes:

1. The Dark Knight
2. Memento
3. Inception
4. The Prestige

It is really too hard to rank the rest of these in a particular order, so...

-Interstellar
-The Dark Knight Rises
-Batman Begins

and:
8. The Following
9. Insomnia

For whatever it is worth.

 

[Alamchop]

Hi guys, I am new this forum.

Its been 2 years since this film came out and I have noticed that those people concerned with the movie, the criticizers and the defenders, seem to not understand some of the plot points.

2 years ago, when I surfed the internet after watching the film, I found that certain plot points like the Dent Act, how John Blake knew Bruce was Batman, why Batman retired, etc. seemed to confuse people. But, I seemed to have understood certain plot details that people seem to have missed. So, I waited 2 years assuming people would bring up the points up but no one really has. So recently, I have been bringing them up by updating TDKR FAQ on imdb, posting in comments on other sites, updating wiki pages, etc.

An example of which nearly everyone is confused about is the Dent Act. You guys got confused about it since I saw a discussion of it on this forum 2 years ago. People seem to be confused on how the Dent Act eliminated organized crime.
We know these things from the film:

1.) Gordon said "There are a 1000 inmates as a direct result of the Dent Act"
2.) That it gave the cops the "teeth" in fighting the mob
3.) That according to Blake, it locked up all those mobsters by denying parole.
4.) Gordon said that the "rules aren't weapons anymore, they are shackles letting the bad get ahead" in referring to why parole was eliminated.

If you only consider what happens in the film, you will be confused on what exactly eliminated organized crime. That is because TDKR assumes that you know certain plot points in TDK that allowed things like eliminating parole to eliminate organized crime. That was since in TDK, Dent's prosecution had already locked up 549 of the mobsters of Gotham. We know that is about half of the mobsters in Gotham since Bruce said in the penthouse that Dent "locked up half the city's criminals" and Gordon mentioning the "1000" mobsters in Blackgate in TDKR. According to Dent and the mayor's conversation in his office, after 18 months of jail, the mobsters would try to appeal there way out: if the mobsters find any dirt on Harvey, they would be back on the streets. Batman and Gordon repeated similar lines of these details later in the film. By the end of TDK, Batman took the rap for Dent's murder spree. With no dirt on Harvey, the mobsters would fail at appeal and stay in jail. Plus, all the mob leaders were dead and the Joker was detained.

Thus, if most of the mobsters were already locked up and the mob leaders were dead, all that had to be done is to capture the remaining mobsters on the street that night. And since all 1000 mobsters were locked up in one night, all you need to do is eliminate parole so they are forced to serve their full sentences instead of getting the chance to bounce back. Thus, that is why the Dent Act eliminated organized crime.

So, what do you guys think about what I said? It's a lot but I greatly appreciate some comments.

EDIT: Of the 500 some remaining on the street, Gambol and Chenchens' men were out helping Joker. With the Joker detained, the SWAT can capture them swiftly. For Maroni, his men would be captured in the next couple of days with ease, since the "corrupt" cops lose financial incentives with Maroni dead, so they can help capture the men.

 

[JackWhite]

You guys heard about Jared Leto possibly playing the Joker in the Suicide Squad movie?

 

[JackWhite]

Wait, so you are saying Gordon had the remaining 500 some odd criminals detained the very night Dent died? Without Batman's help? That is next to impossible, unless the Dent Act was erected that very night, and that's even more of a stretch.