Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League (The Snyder Cut Edition) - Part 2

[Superchan]

Yeah, I saw it now. He always seemed to take criticism better than about 99% of the rest of Hollywood.

Have to disagree. I don't remember him being ok with Ben Mendelson (Variety writer) when he [Meddelson] commented on (and criticized) the leaked trailer of the Snyder cut. Also the very fact that he egged on the psychotic portion of his fandom when ever they attacked anyone who criticized or dared to question Snyder's "genius" tells me that Snyder is an egomaniac who takes criticism about as well as most people....that is to say he doesn't take any criticism (constructive or otherwise) AT ALL.

According to many side-by-side comparisons of the theatrical cut to ZSJL, almost all of Whedon’s additions and alterations have been deemed conspicuously inferior to the original material. So we might speculate that going with the original/better Snyder stuff (though, obviously not a four-hour version) would have translated to a bigger box office. Of course, quality doesn’t necessarily correlate to box office success (see, again, Blade Runner 2049). So, who knows? This is all based on hypotheticals and the advantage of hindsight — which, as they say, is 20/20.

(And I agree about BvS. I just rewatched the Ultimate Edition. It's still impressive.)

Wouldn't blame anyone for making such speculation but judging from the fact that Whedon's JL did better in multipliers (2.4 vs a laughable 1.98) and in critical rating (39% vs 29%) than Snyder's BvS I would say it's doubtful that Snyder's JL, which would not have been anywhere near the 4 hr run time, would've done any better than Whedon's.
It also should be remembered that JL opened to less than a 100 million dollars, which was, is and will always be SHOCKING and all that thanks (or no thanks) to Snyder and how his BvS alienated the majority of the general public. Most of the scenes in the trailers where from the Snyder cut, which told the general public that this movie is directed by the same guy who gave you the crap fest that is BvS, hence most people simply avoided the movie when it opened.

 

[Filmfreak]

Exactly. Some people think that the theatrical Justice League flopped because WB messed up with Snyder's vision but it was exactly that vision that didn't resonate with most people and kept them away from the 2017 movie. The vast majority of the audience had no idea about all the behind the scenes drama. It was divisive after divisive DCEU films that led to them not caring about that universe anymore.

 

[obredaan]

The Whedon reshoots swelled JL’s budget to about $300M.

WB only spent around $25M on the Whedon reshoots which would've been the same amount that Snyder would be given had he returned for the reshoots as initially planned.

 

[Dr.]

WB only spent around $25M on the Whedon reshoots which would've been the same amount that Snyder would be given had he returned for the reshoots as initially planned.

As mentioned… we’re all just musing about hypotheticals and what-ifs. That’s okay. Indeed, it’s a pretty common activity in these parts. And in my hypothetical, I’m asking what-if WB had just let Snyder finish his theatrical cut? In which case, there’d be no additional expense involved with shooting/re-shooting Whedon’s new scenes (even if directed by Snyder) or paying Whedon his (likely) substantial remuneration because… there’d be no Whedon. (As we now know, zero Whedon footage was used in ZSJL. So there was sufficient original material available to make a finished film.) Another example: Holkenborg was paid to write the music score. Then Holkenborg was fired. Then, the (no doubt) more expensive Elfman was hired. Etc., etc. Bottom line, the Snyder-to-Whedon “course correction” didn’t come cheap.

As to whether a hypothetical Snyder theatrical cut would have done bigger box office than the Whedon version… I’m actually more skeptical about that. I think the good will (positive reviews, etc.) that ZSJL earned was due, at least in part, to the passage of time — during which the “mythic” status of a possible Snyder Cut grew. But had that cut (or some version of it) been released back in 2017, I’m not sure that the BO result would have been any different. As @Superchan said, the taint of BvS (just 18 months earlier) would probably have affected the opening weekend of any sequel. OTOH… a better movie might have had better word-of-mouth and better “legs.” But, again, this is all just speculation.

One thing we might all agree on: ZSJL had the good luck of timing. Under the new/current WB-D regime, ZSJL — almost certainly — wouldn’t happen.

 

[Filmfreak]

Obviously we don't know how well his hypothetical theatrical cut would have been received, since Snyder wouldn't have released the 4-hour cut that we ended up having. Though, judging by his history in general and even more so of his films with "compromised visions", I wouldn't expect it to have been received much better than what we had in 2017.

Truthfully even the Snyder cut didn't blow most critics away like some people are making it out to be. Yes, it has a 71% in Rotten Tomatoes but top critics gave it a 52% and it only has a 6.7 average rating. Also another 54/100 in Metacritic.

So if we were to believe that the movie that would have been would have similar ratings, it honestly seems highly unlikely it would have been enough to turn people's perception upside down after the mixed to bad reviews BvS had. To be able to gain people's trust again and to counterbalance all the negativity you need far better reception than that.

And honestly I feel like critics and audience were far more lenient to Snyder's Justice League because it was a different cut of a preexisting movie, rather than an actual movie itself. I'm sure it played out to its advantage and things would have been much different if it was a film that got released in cinemas without people feeling the need to root for a director's lost vision and the poor way he was treated by a studio at a tragic moment in his life.

 

[Dr.]

 

[chintai80]

 

[Dr.]

Maybe a bit of false advertising. This was mainly a conversation between filmmakers on their general approach and process. So... interesting to movie buffs who enjoy such behind-the-scenes insights and minutia. OTOH, if you were looking for a detailed post-mortem of JL's troubled production — and the evolution of ZSJL — this podcast won't give you much new material.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I truly believe ZSJL is one of the greatest CBMs. But Snyder was always the wrong pick for a crowd pleasing DCU. His movies were not what I wanted but I appreciate them more over time.

 

[kguillou]

Hey all!

Just bumping this thread real quick because ive been rewatching this movie in anticipation of The Flash this week and i love this movie more each time i watch it. Yes, its a wee bit too long. I think you could make a “leaner” 3 and a half hour cut of this movie and trim some fat and yet…im glad we got the 4 hours. Im glad that a lot of the scenes get a breath a little, the shots, the dialogue, it adds a vibe to the film that i really love.

What I love about the movie is its ambitious scope. It feels like Lord of the Rings meets DC superheroes which i think Zack was going for all along starting with Man of Steel. A big, epic sweeping adventure spanning all corners of the DC universe. Thats the kind of movie i’ve always wanted to see.

I’m glad this movie exists man. Hate it or love it, its certainly one of the most unique cbms we’ve ever gotten and we’re not likely to get something like this ever again. I’m happy to move on from Snyder though but glad we got this instead of being stuck with that botched up Whedon cut and never knowing what the original director had made.

 

[Dr.]

Hey all!

Just bumping this thread real quick because ive been rewatching this movie in anticipation of The Flash this week and i love this movie more each time i watch it. Yes, its a wee bit too long. I think you could make a “leaner” 3 and a half hour cut of this movie and trim some fat and yet…im glad we got the 4 hours. Im glad that a lot of the scenes get a breath a little, the shots, the dialogue, it adds a vibe to the film that i really love...

In many ways, ZSJL is fairly conventional. (It’s certainly not the genre “deconstruction” that BvS was. More like a “re-construction.” ) So IMO, what really distinguishes the film and makes it interesting is its long-form format. The story arc and individual scenes are allowed to (as you say) breathe in a way that you don’t often see in typical action/fantasy. Perhaps for the best, therefore, that ZSJL exists almost as a “limited series” rather than a (shorter) movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I am delighted we have this movie and this trilogy. I know Zach ain't the most popular guy but I personally love what he did with some of my favourite characters in these movies. Doomsday especially has grown on me over the years.

It's hard to find a spare 4 hours to watch JL these days, but I am planning on another re-watch soon.

 

[kguillou]

I like to watch this in pieces. An hour at a time over several days. It is a LOT to digest in one sitting but i think it actually views very well when you pace yourself with it portions at a time.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Just rewatched this myself and still really enjoy it despite the runtime. If you were to trim the runtime down, I wouldn't touch any of the scenes with the League together. Aquaman and Wonder Woman talking at the cemetery, the League at the Batcave, the League strategizing on the Flying Fox, all of that worked so well in this movie.

 

[kguillou]

Just rewatched this myself and still really enjoy it despite the runtime. If you were to trim the runtime down, I wouldn't touch any of the scenes with the League together. Aquaman and Wonder Woman talking at the cemetery, the League at the Batcave, the League strategizing on the Flying Fox, all of that worked so well in this movie.

Oh couldnt agree more. The small character interaction scenes were the best part. The scene at the cemetery, the team scenes in the batcave, Diana and Alfred’s little exchange, Bruce and Alfred’s talk about “faith,” i loved all those scenes and it showed that Snyder isnt as shallow and edgy as alot of people view him to be.

 

[heatvision38]

Just coming in to see if anyone saw the new casting. Corenswet for Clark and Rachel Brosnahan for Lois. I know some people here were high on Corenswet. I don't think I've watched anything he's been in but he does look the part. I am not familiar with Brosnahan. But I'm always looking forward to what comes of it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am not familiar with either person's acting work. Well, I haven't seen much of what they were in I should say. I am aware of what they're known for. Like I said before, I am not married to any choices. I am just hoping for a great movie, and if these are the people Gunn thinks will get the project there, then all for it!

 

[Dr.]

I am not familiar with either person's acting work. Well, I haven't seen much of what they were in I should say. I am aware of what they're known for. Like I said before, I am not married to any choices. I am just hoping for a great movie, and if these are the people Gunn thinks will get the project there, then all for it!

Corenswet and Brosnahan look the parts. I think they’ll be fine. (Trivia: since his creators were Jewish, it’s been speculated that Superman is, metaphorically, likewise. But Corenswet will be the first Jewish actor to play the role.:nerdy

I’m still curious about Gunn’s approach. On a recent podcast, he was asked to name his favorite superhero film. His first answer was Superman The Movie. Okay... But that’s kind of a safe, diplomatic choice. And it doesn’t necessarily mean much. (Nolan claimed that Batman Begins was influenced by STM; yet BB was nothing at all like STM.) But then Gunn mentioned Deadpool as another favorite. Well, that’s interesting. Deadpool is, obviously, a comedy — a spoofy, deconstruction of the genre. And the same could be said of The Suicide Squad, Peacemaker and (perhaps to a lesser extent) his Guardians trilogy. So is this Gunn’s general attitude towards the material? Presumably, he’ll take a different, more “serious” tack when it comes to Superman: Legacy (and the broader DCU he’s building). But how much different is, I guess, the question.