Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x15 - "Self Control" - Discussion Thread

[Vartha]

Spoiler

If you saw near the end, Daisy and Jemma were strapped to those pods in order to find the rest of the team and have to go through an alternate timeline to find them.

Well as of right now, I'm two episodes behind lol I HOPE to catch up tomorrow lol but thanks!

 

[Mortagon]

Did anyone else notice that May was standing in the Triskellion from Winter soldier at the end?

 

[Pokkle]

An awesome episode.
Nice tension with the lmd, the twist with one of the two being one.

And these change in the matrix were really fun.
Looking forward for this New world order with Hydra, nice to see the Triskelion and Ward too even if he isn't real.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Did anyone else notice that May was standing in the Triskellion from Winter soldier at the end?

except for the HYDRA logo of course

 

[SirStrangefolk]

So... is the Superior MODOK, Doctor Sun or somebody else? If he's one of the former two, I really hope he isn't killed off since MODOK absolutely deserves to be the big bad in an Avengers film and if Marvel finally do something with Blade, they need Doctor Sun.

Brain Drain, possibly?

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I'm so angry though.

Like, this episode was perfection in some parts now it seems like a convoluted mess.

I hate that Ward is back.

Why is Jemma dead?

Who is Fitz with? Please don't be AIDA

Some of that is probably the result of Coulson never joining SHIELD. That'd mean he couldn't do the things he did during the Iron Man and Thor movies, and especially Avengers. That's a bit more than a mere butterfly flapping its wings.

EDIT: whoops, accidentally posted again instead of editing my previous post.

 

[scarlet-witch]

Has Daisy always been able to "detect bones" or whatever she did with her powers? That seemed like a huge plot convenience, along with her powers doing essentially what Wanda Maximoff's could do when she tore Mack and Coulson apart. (Which admittedly was a very cool visual)

I really just hate the constant separating of FitzSimmons and I thought we were going to see the last of AIDA and the LMDs but that wasn't the case. Ward being back is awful. Brett Dalton is a terrible actor, it's like watching a piece of cardboard.

 

[chamber-music]

Briana Venskus who plays Shield Agent Piper on Marvel's Agents Of Shield and D.E.O Agent Vazquez on Supergirl must of had deja vu.

Venskus was in a episode of Supergirl a few weeks ago in which the DEO base was locked down as white martians had replaced people and infiltrated the base.

This week Venskus was in a episode in which the Shield base was locked down as they have been infiltrated by life model decoys.

 

[Silvermoon]

Okay...best episode in a long time!

Daisy finally feels like a superhero after that fight.

I love that the cameos from Random SHIELD Agents paid off with them actually taking part in the mission, giving some emotion to the scene beyond just the two main cast members.

This Hydra Matrix/Framework is INSANE...Jemma is dead in that reality? Then...who is Fitz with and where is Jemma's mind?? WARD!!! And why is Hydra ruling in this fantasy world? Did one of the Agents dream that up or did Aida program that for some reason?

I still don't give a crap about the robots though...and the head in a jar thing wasn't something I flipped for.

Some of it could be Aida, but like someone else indicated later, I think some of it also has to do with the 'butterfly effect' type of thing. Inside the Framwork you have Coulson who never became a SHIELD agent... well, you remove him as a SHIELD agent and what changes in the MCU? He's not there to deal with Tony Stark in IM1 or 2, he's not in New Mexico making friendly with Thor, he's not pushing to continue the search for Captain America (from the official Avengers prelude comic "Fury's Big Week"), since the events of New Mexico would probably be different, that could affect what happened between Thor and Loki which could affect the events of Avengers (plus, Coulson's not there anyway to be the thing they come together for)...and so on and so on.


It was a heck of an episode...that's for sure. I really really liked it

 

[tbg]

I am willing to bet folding money that Fitz is with Aida. This is not Fitz's desires as much as it is Aida's.

Spoiler

Aida eliminates Radcliffe to make sure he dies in the framework as well as real world so that Fitz wouldn't question anything in the framework.

I am curious as to whether Daisy will have powers in the framework. With no SHIELD, she wouldn't go through terragenesis. I am definitely curious as to whether they will actually call Ivanov MODOK or not. Clearly that is what he is intended to be. Just hope that Aida doesn't do something stupid and create a Ward LMD based on the brain scans of all of the captured agents and then he becomes a team member for S5. That will truly be jumping the shark, and the shark will have frickin lasers.

 

[Silvermoon]

I am willing to bet folding money that Fitz is with Aida. This is not Fitz's desires as much as it is Aida's.

Spoiler

Aida eliminates Radcliffe to make sure he dies in the framework as well as real world so that Fitz wouldn't question anything in the framework.

I am curious as to whether Daisy will have powers in the framework. With no SHIELD, she wouldn't go through terragenesis. I am definitely curious as to whether they will actually call Ivanov MODOK or not. Clearly that is what he is intended to be. Just hope that Aida doesn't do something stupid and create a Ward LMD based on the brain scans of all of the captured agents and then he becomes a team member for S5. That will truly be jumping the shark, and the shark will have frickin lasers.

Regarding what you put in the spoiler tag I admit I need to rewatch the episode from a couple weeks ago, but

Spoiler

I thought that the idea was that, even if your body in the real world dies - your consciousness remains a part of the Framework. That was the idea with putting Agnes in the Framework as her real physical body was dying... she could still live on, without the cancer (it was a brain tumor, wasn't it?)

So in this episode, you have Aida stating that there's a paradox in her programming. She had one directive to protect Radcliffe, and another to protect the framework. She perceived that Radcliffe, with his human faults, might eventually regret building the Framework and order her to dismantle it. With his response to that what's real is what you perceive to be real so the Framework world is real (or something like that), she realized she could upload him to the Framework (where his conciousness will live on...thereby maintaining her one directive to protect him) while at the same time by killing his body, would prevent him from being able to leave the Framework and potentially ordering her to dismantle it - thereby allowing her to maintain her other objective as well.

So I think that Radcliffe is there in the Framework - somewhere. Whether he'll actually play a part in Daisy and Jemma's goal to release the others (and whether he'll help or hinder them), who knows? We'll have to wait and see.

That's my initial take on it, at least. Hope that made sense (sorry if it didn't)

I could see Daisy having powers in the Framework...again, Radcliffe was making a big deal about perception in regards to the Framework - if Daisy's mind believes she has her Inhuman powers, then shouldn't she? Though maybe not

 

[Heretic]

I am under the impression that you can die in the real world, but not be dead in the Framework. At least...wasn't that Radcliffe's goal for his dying ex when he hooked her up...eternal life in the Framework?

 

[Tymminator]

So if Jemma's mind goes to where her "body" is in the framework...

Oops. Hope she's not claustrophobic, but no matter what that's gotta suck.

 

[Tymminator]

I am under the impression that you can die in the real world, but not be dead in the Framework. At least...wasn't that Radcliffe's goal for his dying ex when he hooked her up...eternal life in the Framework?

That's how I took it.

 

[Silvermoon]

So if Jemma's mind goes to where her "body" is in the framework...

Oops. Hope she's not claustrophobic, but no matter what that's gotta suck.

I think it might depend on what Jemma and Daisy were able to see when they were looking for their avatars (were they just looking at lines of code? or something else?). If Jemma assumed that, in the fantasy Framework world, Fitz would have the same feelings for her as he does in the real world - then maybe she just looked for whatever code that indicated the woman that Fitz was closest to in the Framework - in which case, we might get Jemma in a different body looking like someone else?

Just a thought.... it's going to be a long month to wait

 

[Heretic]

So if Jemma's mind goes to where her "body" is in the framework...

Oops. Hope she's not claustrophobic, but no matter what that's gotta suck.

She could possibly be on that planet with Stranded Astronaut Guy, with an empty grave for her family.

Heck...theoretically it could be her with Fitz, and it could be revealed that she isn't even the real Jemma Simmons...but that would be a bit of a stretch.

Heck, if she is in that grave, then we could have an instance where she is a rotted corpse, walking around trying to save the world...but again, I doubt it.

 

[scarlet-witch]

Oh god, please don't bring back Will again. What an unnecessary love triangle that was.

 

[VTGuy]

How this show has ratings so far below The Flash boggles my mind. This was an incredible episode. Even though it was complex it feels put so well put together and everything seems to make sense and have a purpose.
Contrary to The Flash (which I also watch) that often leaves me shaking my head at all of the pointless scenes and unhinged plot lines.

 

[Uskok]

Poor HYDRA. They can conquer the world only in a video game/virtual reality. But I think we should be worried if Aida thinks the perfect world should be ruled by HYDRA.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Did anyone else notice that May was standing in the Triskellion from Winter soldier at the end?

Yeah, the Hydra Triskelion was a nice touch and pulled everything together.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Brain Drain, possibly?

I take that back. I'm fairly sure I got it this time.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Guardian_(Anton)_(Earth-616)

 

[EarthShaker]

Skye powering up an earthquake ball was epic. I hope to see more scenes where Skye goes maximum quake.

 

[jaqua99]

Has Daisy always been able to "detect bones" or whatever she did with her powers? That seemed like a huge plot convenience, along with her powers doing essentially what Wanda Maximoff's could do when she tore Mack and Coulson apart. (Which admittedly was a very cool visual)

I really just hate the constant separating of FitzSimmons and I thought we were going to see the last of AIDA and the LMDs but that wasn't the case. Ward being back is awful. Brett Dalton is a terrible actor, it's like watching a piece of cardboard.

Agreed.

Is Ghost Rider supposed to be back? He was the best thing that happened to this show in years

 

[jaqua99]

How this show has ratings so far below The Flash boggles my mind. This was an incredible episode. Even though it was complex it feels put so well put together and everything seems to make sense and have a purpose.
Contrary to The Flash (which I also watch) that often leaves me shaking my head at all of the pointless scenes and unhinged plot lines.

Cause this show has identity issues, Flash does not. Flash is silly and out there.

This show has become a forced drama and I feel the majority of viewers watch it because it's Marvel.

I know more people in my life who have abandoned thks show..and atleast 10 people who love the flash.

But back to SHIELD. What was the outcome? Were they in a programmed reality with Hydra?

 

[Asharad]

This show has become a forced drama and I feel the majority of viewers watch it because it's Marvel.

The last 2 episodes have me really losing interest. Our heroes are stuck in fantasy world where anything can and will happen, but because it's all fantasy nothing will be any different when they wake up. meh