Disney in talks to buy Fox: X-Men Homecoming? - Part 4

[TheVileOne]

Dude, again, all for inclusion of Kitty and more women heroes and more Jewish heroes, and yes, here's to her as a much bigger star in the MCU X-Men.

But unless you would call it racebending if a White actress was cast as her, then you kinda agree with the reasoning, even if you don't appreciate it.

Just because she's White doesn't mean her inclusion isn't more important than other more milquetoast/WASPy folks. Racial diversity isn't the only important diversity.

If it's a non-Jewish actress then yes.

There's no verifiable proof of something that hasn't happened, sure, but do you think that getting gender inclusion ruffling fewer feathers is better than getting the same amount of inclusion ruffling a lot of feathers? Is the principle sound?

No principle is sound. Whenever you make these movies, people will always have complaints or misgivings. It's inevitable.

And we can confirm that people like Wolverine more than they like, say Beast, right? Like, I don't have a list of polls on hand, but you've gathered that, too, right? They have more emotional investment in the "bigger" character? Is that splitting hairs?

OK. But if we are to acknowledge that there's a problem in comic book superhero movies with a lack of gender and diversity inclusion, doesn't it still have to change? If people are tired of just getting white male heroes all the time, and that's wrong, shouldn't that be the main problem getting fixed? And if that is a problem, make one of the biggest name heroes the female character, Wolverine's clone daughter, who took on the title in the comics, the main Wolverine in the new films.

Yeah Wolverine is one of the biggest names around. But he's also not the only Wolverine anymore. And there have been a lot of films that have featured Wolverine. So wouldn't it be pretty major to have a female character representing Wolverine? Why not give that opportunity to an actress to get to play such a character and maybe explore the idea of having such an aggressive and strong character that is now a woman instead of the white male.

I don't get how including Wolverine, alone, will ruffle feathers. Describe the person who would be upset at lack of gender inclusion for a majority female team that includes Wolverine, because the only people that could be upset are hardcore Laura fans, who don't care about how much gender inclusion there is if she's not there.

Look how casting Iron Fist as a white actor in the TV series upset people. A new Marvel TV show based on the comics with a character consistent to the original's background. People called Iron Fist whitewashing and Mighty Whitey. They claimed Iron Fist should've been Asian instead of another white male actor. The point is. People are upset and tired about the lack of gender diversity and inclusion in these films. I'm simply presenting an idea as a solution. Use the female Wolverine and make one of the marquee characters the Laura/X23 version.

Captain Marvel is a poor example because not only is Mar-Vell not the most popular version of the character, but unlike with Logan/Laura it's a solo property so it's either/or. You can make the CM movie female-centric OR you can have Mar-Vell as CM, but not both. Because the X-Men aren't and should never have been the Wolverine movies, you can have a female centric X-Men AND include Logan. You can have your cake and eat it too, so why are you acting like they can only eat cake?

OK, but they stuck with making the film around the most recent legacy version of the character instead of going with the previous iterations of the original.

To me it's not about popularity. Marvel Studios is such a huge brand right now, they've made C and D-list characters into major franchises right now. So arguably, if they used X23/Laura Wolverine outside of some angry YouTubers and Twitter followers and probably some dudes who use too much time on their hands who come up with strategies to tank IMDB or RT user ratings are going to get angry. Do their opinions really matter? If Marvel Studios went that route, I doubt the film would flop.

So...let them eat cake.

 

[psylockolussus]

They can use Uncanny X-Men, Astonishing X-Men or simply Marvels X-Men

How about Adjectiveless X-Men?

I prefer if they just call it X-Men. With the other MCU films, I prefer if they just went with"Hulk", "Spider-Man" and "Captain America". Having the same title from a previous film adaptation isn't a disrespect or anything. Its simple and straight.

 

[TheVileOne]

No matter what Kevin Feige says, Captain America really didn't need that dumb first Avenger subtitle. It was a marketing gimmick because there's nothing in the film about Cap being the first Avenger. Like arguably the first canonical superhero of the MCU, but there were no Avengers in that movie. No one referred to him as an Avengers, not even at the end.

But it seems Marvel Studios will add something extra to the title if it's some type of reboot or remake situation. Hence, Hulk got called The Incredible Hulk, released five years after the 2003 Hulk. Spider-Man was Spider-Man: Homecoming after the Amazing Spider-Man films.

Dollars to donuts, some sort of subtitle or adjective gets added to whatever is the first MCU X-Men movie.

 

[Zarex]

No matter what Kevin Feige says, Captain America really didn't need that dumb first Avenger subtitle. It was a marketing gimmick because there's nothing in the film about Cap being the first Avenger. Like arguably the first canonical superhero of the MCU, but there were no Avengers in that movie. No one referred to him as an Avengers, not even at the end.

The First Avenger subtitle was used to market the film overseas, not in the US. The Captain America in the title was dropped in Russia, Ukraine and South Korea. The name Avengers wasn't a selling point in the US back in 2011.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2598989/captain-america-the-first-avenger-title-change/

 

[TheVileOne]

The First Avenger subtitle was used to market the film overseas, not in the US. The Captain America in the title was dropped in Russia, Ukraine and South Korea. The name Avengers wasn't a selling point in the US back in 2011.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2598989/captain-america-the-first-avenger-title-change/

So they gave it a marketing subtitle for overseas territories that they ended up dropping it in anyway...so...it was indeed pointless.

Also, I'm referring to Feige's soundbytes on the Thor: Ragnarok Blu-ray talking about why Captain America was called The First Avenger.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Marvel Studios’ Uncanny X-Men

Take it to the bank, folks

 

[Mad Ones]

Ya, we need an Uncanny X-men titled movie.

 

[Marvel united]

Uncanny X-Men sounds good. Throw in Marvel's Astonishing X-Men too

 

[Spiderine]

Marvel Studios’ Uncanny X-Men

Take it to the bank, folks

Ya, we need an Uncanny X-men titled movie.

Uncanny X-Men sounds good. Throw in Marvel's Astonishing X-Men too

I am all for this. I bet thats exactly what they go with......Uncanny Xmen.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'd be fine with Uncanny X-Men as well as that's the original X-Men book for Marvel.

 

[DyfeddRex]

I'll side with the Uncanny vote on this one.

 

[Dasher10]

Uncanny works for me.

Also, I'm fully 100% in favor of the following casting.

Madison Davenport as Kitty Pryde. She's got the right look. She's able to play resourceful yet likable female characters. She even sounds how I expect Kitty to sound.

Sergej Trifunovij as Doctor Doom. He's from the Balkans. He's able to play charismatic, theatrical villains. He's also got the right accent which if mechanized would sound just like how I expect Doom to sound.

Matthew McConaughey as Reed Richards. He's played a scientist before. He's able to be charismatic and stoic at the same time. He'd be great at playing a tireless idealist.

Seth Rogan as The Thing. He's got the body type for it. He's a big guy. He's Jewish. He's also got a goofy sense of humor.

Hunter Page-Lochard as Bishop. There aren't many Australian aboriginal actors. Even fewer have played a superhero before. Plus he's rocked a mullet in the past. He's mother is Haitian-American. His father is an Australian aborigine. Bishop spent time in LA before travelling back to the past. And again, black Australian actors are hard to come by and Bishop's character is inherently tied to Aboriginal identity with Bishop's own history in an internment camp so it would feel disrespectful to not find somebody from that culture to play him. He just needs to put on some muscle and he's Bishop.

Emile Hirsch as Wolverine. He's got the mutton chops. He's from the Pacific Northwest which is close enough to Alberta. He's played a special forces operator before. Give him a bottle of black hair dye and he's Wolverine.

And even though I dislike double-casting, I still see Maherhsala Ali as Silver Surfer and his current MCU character is dead so...

 

[Raiden]

I'd be fine with Uncanny X-Men as well as that's the original X-Men book for Marvel.

Didn't they relaunched the X-Men with Giant-Sized X-Men? How's that for an adjective?

 

[DyfeddRex]

No, but a Giant-Sized Movie would be awesome, say, like over 140 minutes run time. They might need a rival to Gone With the Wind run-time to overcome the mistakes of the previous iteration of the franchise.

 

[DrCosmic]

If it's a non-Jewish actress then yes.

No principle is sound. Whenever you make these movies, people will always have complaints or misgivings. It's inevitable.

OK. But if we are to acknowledge that there's a problem in comic book superhero movies with a lack of gender and diversity inclusion, doesn't it still have to change? If people are tired of just getting white male heroes all the time, and that's wrong, shouldn't that be the main problem getting fixed? And if that is a problem, make one of the biggest name heroes the female character, Wolverine's clone daughter, who took on the title in the comics, the main Wolverine in the new films.

Yeah Wolverine is one of the biggest names around. But he's also not the only Wolverine anymore. And there have been a lot of films that have featured Wolverine. So wouldn't it be pretty major to have a female character representing Wolverine? Why not give that opportunity to an actress to get to play such a character and maybe explore the idea of having such an aggressive and strong character that is now a woman instead of the white male.

Look how casting Iron Fist as a white actor in the TV series upset people. A new Marvel TV show based on the comics with a character consistent to the original's background. People called Iron Fist whitewashing and Mighty Whitey. They claimed Iron Fist should've been Asian instead of another white male actor. The point is. People are upset and tired about the lack of gender diversity and inclusion in these films. I'm simply presenting an idea as a solution. Use the female Wolverine and make one of the marquee characters the Laura/X23 version.

OK, but they stuck with making the film around the most recent legacy version of the character instead of going with the previous iterations of the original.

To me it's not about popularity. Marvel Studios is such a huge brand right now, they've made C and D-list characters into major franchises right now. So arguably, if they used X23/Laura Wolverine outside of some angry YouTubers and Twitter followers and probably some dudes who use too much time on their hands who come up with strategies to tank IMDB or RT user ratings are going to get angry. Do their opinions really matter? If Marvel Studios went that route, I doubt the film would flop.

So...let them eat cake.

If no principle is sound... then how can you make any sense?

Yes "people will complain no matter what" but the number of people who complain is the difference between Fant4stic and Black Panther. Complaints about Iron Fist are about... Iron Fist, not Logan. If the MCU was about the most recent/current, Bucky would have been the Captain America of the MCU. And just because gender diversity has to change doesn't mean it has to be done in the least diverse way: lesser versions of male characters.

You may not care about popularity, that's fine, but the reality is the MCU used the most popular characters it had in its stable to build its universe, and because they did this they had 1) The most buzz possible and 2) the most stories to draw from, which is part of why they were successful. That may be why they're excited about recasting Wolverine, and not about an X-23 spinoff. Likewise, as soon as they got Spider-Man, they fast tracked him.

It may be that those who want gender diversity will have to be satisfied with Jean Grey, Ororo Munroe, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Betsy Braddock and Alison Blaire as X-Men. I don't know how they'll be able to stomach such injustice, but life just isn't fair sometimes.

 

[Spider-Fan]

To me it's not about popularity. Marvel Studios is such a huge brand right now, they've made C and D-list characters into major franchises right now. So arguably, if they used X23/Laura Wolverine outside of some angry YouTubers and Twitter followers and probably some dudes who use too much time on their hands who come up with strategies to tank IMDB or RT user ratings are going to get angry. Do their opinions really matter? If Marvel Studios went that route, I doubt the film would flop.

So...let them eat cake.

You also don't run a billion dollar enterprise that heavily depends on toy and merchandise sales. So, TheVileOne can say just bench one of the 5 most profitable characters possibly in comics, but that is not a sound business decision. Businesses are in the business to make money, and not using one of your most popular assets potentially will create a diminishing return. Not maximizing your profits in business is a bad thing.

In other words, Disney will not be coming to you for advice on this one anytime soon.

 

[DrCosmic]

^Word.

I personally wouldn't want Wolverine in the first X-Men film, just because the way he's promoted can devalue all the other characters, which does no one any favors in the long run. But I would not be surprised if he was there.

 

[Big Bang]

You also don't run a billion dollar enterprise that heavily depends on toy and merchandise sales.

The importance of this part of any market cannot be understated as it extends the life and reach of said product.

I personally wouldn't want Wolverine in the first X-Men film, just because the way he's promoted can devalue all the other characters, which does no one any favors in the long run. But I would not be surprised if he was there.

Agreed. In some past instances I think it would be fair to say he was over promoted to the detriment of the other characters. They should take the first film(s) to build up the other characters first and maybe throw a tease two out there referencing him. Overall it serves the brand at large to have a stable of several popular characters of a variety of backgrounds vs. a singular very popular character surrounded by a bunch of C or D listers.

 

[Iceman]

Agreed. In some past instances I think it would be fair to say he was over promoted to the detriment of the other characters. They should take the first film(s) to build up the other characters first and maybe throw a tease two out there referencing him. Overall it serves the brand at large to have a stable of several popular characters of a variety of backgrounds vs. a singular very popular character surrounded by a bunch of C or D listers.

No question that he was overpromoted while the other X-Men were underpromoted. He is a great character but the X-Men are an awesome team in many different iterations which don't include him. I would like it if after 3 or 4 films in the MCU that the GA can have other X-Men characters as favourites alongside Wolverine, as comic readers do.

 

[DrCosmic]

No question that he was overpromoted while the other X-Men were underpromoted. He is a great character but the X-Men are an awesome team in many different iterations which don't include him. I would like it if after 3 or 4 films in the MCU that the GA can have other X-Men characters as favourites alongside Wolverine, as comic readers do.

Skip 3 or 4 films, I want that after the first one. Look at Black Panther how it turned Okoye, Nakia, Shuri, M'Baku and Killmonger into fan favorites just as strong as T'Challa, and that's in a movie named after T'Challa. An X-Men movie could do the same, easily. There's no reason Jean can't be as incredible as Nakia, Storm as Okoye, Beast as Shuri, Angel as M'Baku and Scott as T'Challa to Wolverine's Killmonger, or just let Wolverine be the teaser at the end and let the bad guy for the X-Men be on that 'greatest of all time list.'

And speaking of overdone, Magneto probably needs a rest just as bad as Wolverine does.

 

[Big Bang]

And speaking of overdone, Magneto probably needs a rest just as bad as Wolverine does.

A threat not named "Magneto" in any shape or form would be a massive breath of fresh air.

I'd like to see Mr. Sinister.

 

[Marvel united]

A threat not named "Magneto" in any shape or form would be a massive breath of fresh air.

I'd like to see Mr. Sinister.

 

[Iceman]

Skip 3 or 4 films, I want that after the first one. Look at Black Panther how it turned Okoye, Nakia, Shuri, M'Baku and Killmonger into fan favorites just as strong as T'Challa, and that's in a movie named after T'Challa. An X-Men movie could do the same, easily. There's no reason Jean can't be as incredible as Nakia, Storm as Okoye, Beast as Shuri, Angel as M'Baku and Scott as T'Challa to Wolverine's Killmonger, or just let Wolverine be the teaser at the end and let the bad guy for the X-Men be on that 'greatest of all time list.'

And speaking of overdone, Magneto probably needs a rest just as bad as Wolverine does.

I definitely want that of course, the earlier the better. It could be a bit difficult just because Wolverine will have a 20 year advantage of being the GA’s favourite character, probably by a distance. There isn’t much between my favourite X-Man and my 10th favourite X-Man and I would love if the MCU films made this possible for the GA going forward too.

 

[Iceman]

A threat not named "Magneto" in any shape or form would be a massive breath of fresh air.

I'd like to see Mr. Sinister.

How about ...

Spoiler

Mystique!

I would LOVE Sinister!

 

[Big Bang]

How about ...

Spoiler

Mystique!

I would LOVE Sinister!

Who says it has to be one villain?

Mystique could be lead in to other villains as well.