Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[MadVillainy]

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Look guys, we’re just going to have to admit to ourselves that Snyder won. Good or bad, he won.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Look guys, we’re just going to have to admit to ourselves that Snyder won. Good or bad, he won.

I mean, that has been apparent for a while. Once they announced this movie was being made he won. Doesn’t really matter if everyone hates it or if no one watches it. Still got made

 

[writer0327]

Look guys, we’re just going to have to admit to ourselves that Snyder won. Good or bad, he won.

Yeah but what did he win tho? All victories aren't created equal.

 

[Kane52630]

Not to get all cinephile, but the idea that this is longer than Lawrence of Arabia is f**king ridiculous.

 

[MadVillainy]

 

[OutOfBoose]

I enjoyed the trailer. Very much looking forward to it. Much better Joker aesthetic-wise and Leto doesn't seem to over-act.

Is it true Snyder and Leto want to do Killing Joke?

 

[MadVillainy]

The thing is Jared Leto is not a bad actor at all. I'd say he can be very good to great. I know he's one of the internet's punching bags, but I don't doubt his talent at all. Panic Room, Requiem for a Dream, Blade Runner 2049, Lord of War, Dallas Buyer's Club.

And I think he'd be a good or even great Joker.

But the direction for the character is so bad with these incarnations. Give him a better script and director and I'm sure he'd be good. Not saying he'd top Ledger, Nicholson, or Phoenix; but that doesn't mean he couldn't be great

 

[writer0327]

I mean, that has been apparent for a while. Once they announced this movie was being made he won. Doesn’t really matter if everyone hates it or if no one watches it. Still got made

Its won the Uwe Boll Pyrrhic Victory award for cinema. Uh....congrats.

 

[OutOfBoose]

And I think he'd be a good or even great Joker.

He almost was one in Little Things. Well, at least I think he was a better Joker there than in Suicide Squad.

 

[MadVillainy]

He almost was one in Little Things.

IIIIII wouldn't say that
But I think that was another good performance. Even if the movie was bad

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Jared’s Joker looks like what people who hated Ledger’s Joker thought it was.

 

[Schlosser85]

The thing is Jared Leto is not a bad actor at all. I'd say he can be very good to great. I know he's one of the internet's punching bags, but I don't doubt his talent at all. Panic Room, Requiem for a Dream, Blade Runner 2049, Lord of War, Dallas Buyer's Club.

And I think he'd be a good or even great Joker.

But the direction for the character is so bad with these incarnations. Give him a better script and director and I'm sure he'd be good. Not saying he'd top Ledger, Nicholson, or Phoenix; but that doesn't mean he couldn't be great

I've said all along he could have been a good Joker, he just...wasn't.

Even when we got the first picture and I hated the design, I still wasn't that concerned about his performance.

Then his performance sucked too.

I do think his recent performances have suffered from his Oscar win going to his head and making him even more pretentious, though. He's overly mannered and affected in both Suicide Squad and Blade Runner 2049.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I must have missed this we live in a society meme.

 

[writer0327]

The thing is Jared Leto is not a bad actor at all. I'd say he can be very good to great. I know he's one of the internet's punching bags, but I don't doubt his talent at all. Panic Room, Requiem for a Dream, Blade Runner 2049, Lord of War, Dallas Buyer's Club.

And I think he'd be a good or even great Joker.

But the direction for the character is so bad with these incarnations. Give him a better script and director and I'm sure he'd be good. Not saying he'd top Ledger, Nicholson, or Phoenix; but that doesn't mean he couldn't be great

Even with a bad script, how Leto chose to portray the character was totally on him and he just didn't measure up. The only thing a better script could have given him was better lines and motivation. But the portrayal was totally up to him.

 

[MadVillainy]

Even with a bad script, how Leto chose to portray the character was totally on him and he just didn't measure up. The only thing a better script could have given him was better lines and motivation. But the portrayal was totally up to him.

I wouldn't say that without knowing what happened on set.

With performances we don't really know what was just the actor's choice and what they were directed to do. Sometimes, hell a lot of the time, performers just trust the director (editor, cinematographer, compers, etc). So I can't place all the blame on him. Or at least I don't think it's fair to.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

It’s not just on them tho. Actors don’t direct themselves. They are directed. A lot of the blame goes to Ayer.

 

[Schlosser85]

Some of it depends on the director. Some directors give their actors way more latitude in creating their portrayal than others. I don't know what Ayer is like with his actors.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Congratulations. Characters say "God is dead" and "We live in a society" all in one trailer!

The dialogue in Snyder's trailers since MOS have been very general and speech like and fit better for trailers and always wind up backfiring in the context of the movie. With MOS, we were tricked. If we're laughing at this in a Snyder trailer now, just think how bad it's gonna be in the film itself.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Some of it depends on the director. Some directors give their actors way more latitude in creating their portrayal than others. I don't know what Ayer is like with his actors.

Very true. Someone like Ridley Scott doesn't get involved much with telling the actors what to do. I have no idea if Ayer is hands on or not.

 

[MadVillainy]

It’s not just on them tho. Actors don’t direct themselves. They are directed. A lot of the blame goes to Ayer.

Yeah It's kinda like that logic some have of
"Well if they're really a good actor they can just elevate the material" But that's just not true.

It's like they're plenty of good athletes out out there, but it still takes teamwork and good coaching to win. Hell, the same is true with "regular jobs." You can be a good employee but if leadership sucks more likely than not your own personal work is gonna suffer because you're following they're lead.

Now, very true this all could be Leto. But to say it like a fact is silly without knowing what happened on set or even in post production

 

[Schlosser85]

Very true. Someone like Ridley Scott doesn't get involved much with telling the actors what to do. I have no idea if Ayer is hands on or not.

George Lucas famously only ever told the cast of the original Star Wars trilogy to make the next take "faster and more intense!"

But Lucas isn't exactly known for being great at directing actors. Liam Neeson said about The Phantom Menace that he "felt like a damn puppet".

You also had people like Hitchcock and Kubrick who were notoriously domineering and treated their actors like props and would mercilessly torment them to get a scene the way they wanted it.

Others are way more laidback and collaborative and let their actors have a lot of input.

And sometimes it depends on a specific dynamic. Like Nolan is supposedly pretty no-nonsense, but he let Ledger improv quite a bit of stuff in TDK, like the mocking clapping when Gordon is made Commissioner, and he let Ledger direct Mike Engel's hostage video.

 

[Kane52630]

I must have missed this we live in a society meme.

 

[Kane52630]

I can't wait to see what Double Toasted has to say about it.

 

[Kane52630]

Also it's gonna be interesting to see the conversation around it when this comes out and having episode 1 of Falcon and the Winter Soldier come out the next day.