Are we facing a new Cold War?

[Tigerking]

Cold War my ass, now we know how the world felt when we invaded Iraq

 

[Gilpesh]

Too early to tell.

Depends on who gets elected into office in November.

 

[Kelly]

yeah....

 

[StorminNorman]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92M5GM81&show_article=1

Russia warns of response to US missile shield

MOSCOW (AP) - Russia says its response to the further development of a U.S. missile shield in Poland will go beyond diplomacy.

Russia's Foreign Ministry issued a statement saying the U.S. missile shield plans are clearly aimed at weakening Russia.

The U.S. says the missile defense system is aimed at protecting the U.S. and Europe from future attacks from states like Iran.

The United States and Poland signed a deal Wednesday to place a U.S. missile defense base just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost fringe.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WARSAW, Poland (AP)—Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her Polish counterpart signed a deal Wednesday to build a U.S. missile defense base in Poland, an agreement that prompted an infuriated Russia to warn of a possible attack against the former Soviet satellite.

Rice dismissed blustery comments from Russian leaders who say Warsaw's hosting of 10 U.S. interceptor missiles just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost frontier opens the country up to attack.

Such comments "border on the bizarre frankly," Rice said, speaking to reporters traveling with her in Warsaw.

"When you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."

The deal, which Washington sought as a way of defending the U.S. and Europe from a hypothetical threat of long-distance missiles from Iran, has strained relations between Moscow and the West. Those ties were already troubled by Russia's invasion of its former Soviet neighbor, U.S. ally Georgia, earlier this month.

Speaking to reporters traveling with her, Rice said, "the Russians are losing their credibility."

Rice and Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski signed the deal Wednesday morning.

"It is an agreement which will help us to respond to the threats of the 21st century," she said afterward.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the agreement came after tough but friendly negotiations.

"We have achieved our main goals, which means that our country and the United States will be more secure," he said.

After Warsaw and Washington announced the agreement on the deal last week, top Russian Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn warned that Poland is risking attack, and possibly a nuclear one, by deploying the American missile defense system, Russia's Interfax news agency reported.

Poles have been shaken by the threats, but NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop dismissed them Tuesday as "pathetic rhetoric."

"It is unhelpful and it leads nowhere," he told reporters at a NATO meeting in Brussels, Belgium.

Many Poles consider the agreement a form of protection at a time when Russia's invasion of Georgia has generated alarm throughout Eastern Europe. Poland is a member of the European Union and NATO, and the deal is expected to deepen its military partnership with Washington.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski also expressed "great satisfaction" at the outcome of the long months of negotiations.

Poland and the United States spent a year and a half negotiating, and talks recently had snagged on Poland's demands that the U.S. bolster Polish security with Patriot missiles in exchange for hosting the missile defense base.

Washington agreed to do so last week, as Poland invoked the Georgia conflict to strengthen its case.

The Patriots are meant to protect Poland from short-range missiles from neighbors—such as Russia.

The U.S. already has reached an agreement with the government in Prague to place the second component of the missile defense shield—a radar tracking system—in the Czech Republic, Poland's southwestern neighbor and another formerly communist country.

Approval is still needed the Czech and Polish parliaments.

No date has been set for the Polish parliament to consider the agreement, but it should face no difficulties in Warsaw, where it enjoys the support of the largest opposition party as well as the government.

 

[Symbiotic]

Good lord, they're dying to get into a war with us.

 

[Hobgoblin]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92M5GM81&show_article=1

Russia warns of response to US missile shield

MOSCOW (AP) - Russia says its response to the further development of a U.S. missile shield in Poland will go beyond diplomacy.

Russia's Foreign Ministry issued a statement saying the U.S. missile shield plans are clearly aimed at weakening Russia.

The U.S. says the missile defense system is aimed at protecting the U.S. and Europe from future attacks from states like Iran.

The United States and Poland signed a deal Wednesday to place a U.S. missile defense base just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost fringe.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WARSAW, Poland (AP)—Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her Polish counterpart signed a deal Wednesday to build a U.S. missile defense base in Poland, an agreement that prompted an infuriated Russia to warn of a possible attack against the former Soviet satellite.

Rice dismissed blustery comments from Russian leaders who say Warsaw's hosting of 10 U.S. interceptor missiles just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost frontier opens the country up to attack.

Such comments "border on the bizarre frankly," Rice said, speaking to reporters traveling with her in Warsaw.

"When you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."

Seriously, WTF? If the Russians back down, they look like chumps. If not...well, you know. I dont see how threats like that can do anyone any good. And if they back down, wont that just make them up their game "next time?"

 

[StorminNorman]

I have a feeling that the US will agree to give up the missile defense base in Poland in exchange for Russia leaving Georgia completely and a draft pick to be named later.

 

[SuBe]

I have a feeling that the US will agree to give up the missile defense base in Poland in exchange for Russia leaving Georgia completely and a draft pick to be named later.

It'll go like "Ok, we'll give you Poland, if you give us Iran"

 

[kainedamo]

Yeah whatever SupermanBeyond.

Anyway, man, the Russians would have to be pretty damn stupid to attack Poland. I don't think it would happen. The Russians are showing off. If the Russians attacked Poland, the Russians would have to answer to Europe and the US.

 

[SuBe]

Yeah whatever SupermanBeyond.

Anyway, man, the Russians would have to be pretty damn stupid to attack Poland. I don't think it would happen. The Russians are showing off. If the Russians attacked Poland, the Russians would have to answer to Europe and the US.

It was a joke. Maybe it went over your head, see, since Stormin said the Draft Pick part, I said what I said, and it was a JOKE. Heh, you said Whatever, you cute little bugger you.

 

[StorminNorman]

Yeah whatever SupermanBeyond.

Anyway, man, the Russians would have to be pretty damn stupid to attack Poland. I don't think it would happen. The Russians are showing off. If the Russians attacked Poland, the Russians would have to answer to Europe and the US.

You know what else was really stupid? Hitler attacking Russia. Yet it happened. You know what else was really stupid? The USSR attacking Afganistan - yet it happened.

Relying on the logic of rogue leaders is NOT exactly the best move.

 

[The Chairman]

You know what else is really stupid The fact that we ever got involved in world affairs in the first place. If only we listened to Washington on isolationism.

 

[Fading]

You have to know where that fine line ends tho. Eventually problems with other countries can come back to hit you even if you're not involved in the early process. Also something has to be said about taking a humanitarian approach, if some ruthless dictator decides to slaughter his citizens by the thousands daily, and is trying to get nukes, I can understand other countries getting involved.

However I'm not condoning things like Iraq, sticking our nose in the leadership of that country got our troops and Iraq civillians killed, and left Iraq in a mess. With our current rep with the world it wouldn't be a bad idea to set a few things out and let Europe step up and handle the Russia's aggressiveness. With the way the world thinks, if we became involved Russia would probably get sympathy even if they did attack Poland simply because we're the US.

IMO you can't completely cut yourself off from the world, but you have to know when to trust other countries to handle their own buisness.

 

[Tigerking]

Think of it from the Russian perspective, its kinda like the Cuban missile crisis for them

 

[StorminNorman]

You know what else is really stupid The fact that we ever got involved in world affairs in the first place. If only we listened to Washington on isolationism.

American Isolationism hasn't been viable for almost a century.

America's position is the world (saying nothing for the world itself) has changed a wee bit from the times of Washington.

 

[StorminNorman]

Think of it from the Russian perspective, its kinda like the Cuban missile crisis for them

Not quite.

 

[StorminNorman]

IMO you can't completely cut yourself off from the world, but you have to know when to trust other countries to handle their own buisness.

But attacking an ally IS American business - if it wasn't then there is NO point in any country becoming an American ally.

This is the point lost on anyone that believes that whatever happens in Georgia has no effect on America - it DOES, it very much DOES.

 

[kytrigger]

Think of it from the Russian perspective, its kinda like the Cuban missile crisis for them

Except that we won't have nuclear missiles aimed at Russia and Poland has even flat out invited Russia to do a complete inspection of the system to prove it is purely a defense system in no way specifically targeting Russia. Instead of taking Poland and the U.S. up on the offer, Russia just keeps threatening to kick Poland in the balls....diplomatically speaking.

 

[Kelly]

Think of it from the Russian perspective, its kinda like the Cuban missile crisis for them

*chokes on my chicken*



WTF????????

 

[Kelly]

As far as isolationism goes......had we stayed out of WWI and WWII, yeah, we might could have kept that policy.....................but what would the world look like today, if that had happened? Don't know....and trying to go back to that policy is impossible.


Isolationism is a big "what if" now..................and we cannot live in a "what if" scenario.....

 

[Tigerking]

Well not exactly a Cuban missile crisis, but say taht Russia was buliding a misile shield with the USA, wouldnt the USA get a bit paranoid as the Rusians are now?

 

[The Senator]

As far as isolationism goes......had we stayed out of WWI and WWII, yeah, we might could have kept that policy.....................but what would the world look like today, if that had happened? Don't know....and trying to go back to that policy is impossible.


Isolationism is a big "what if" now..................and we cannot live in a "what if" scenario.....

I disagree. The Russia-Georgia conflict doesn't concern us, or at least it shouldn't. These two countries have a long, contorted history with one another and they were almost destined to fight each other in battle. What we should be doing, instead of trying to build a missile shield in Poland and self-righteously declaring our support for Georgia, is keeping our noses out of their business.

That's the same thing we should be doing with Iran, to tell you the truth, until there is evidence that they have nuclear weapons and it is clear that they want to attack Israel or its allies. We need to get out heads out of our asses and realize that these other countries are sovereign and they are capable of making their own decisions without our intervention. Moreover, we need to realize that our intervention only infuriates some of these nations more, and that if we don't stop acting like the world's police, we're going to end up severing our most important alliances and find ourselves all alone in the world one way or another.

Instead of lobbying for sanctions or taking provocative military measures, we should be sending diplomats to these countries and opening up talks on every single issue which faces the international community. From Iran's nuclear program to Russia's hostility, we shouldn't be making threats, we should sit down and talk things out like adults. Or, we should keep our nose out of their business and let these countries work out their problems by themselves.

I'm tired of our military being stretched to the limits in Iraq, I certainly don't want to see an entire generation drafted because we feel this need to have the bigger penis in the room by exercising our military might and diplomatic aggressiveness.

 

[Fading]

Not to be juvenile, but I originally read your quote as this -

*chokes my chicken*



WTF????????

- and was very confused. I wondered if you just got off on politicial talk about isolationism or something heh.

 

[Kelly]

I disagree. The Russia-Georgia conflict doesn't concern us, or at least it shouldn't. These two countries have a long, contorted history with one another and they were almost destined to fight each other in battle. What we should be doing, instead of trying to build a missile shield in Poland and self-righteously declaring our support for Georgia, is keeping our noses out of their business.

That's the same thing we should be doing with Iran, to tell you the truth, until there is evidence that they have nuclear weapons and it is clear that they want to attack Israel or its allies. We need to get out heads out of our asses and realize that these other countries are sovereign and they are capable of making their own decisions without our intervention. Moreover, we need to realize that our intervention only infuriates some of these nations more, and that if we don't stop acting like the world's police, we're going to end up severing our most important alliances and find ourselves all alone in the world one way or another.

Instead of lobbying for sanctions or taking provocative military measures, we should be sending diplomats to these countries and opening up talks on every single issue which faces the international community. From Iran's nuclear program to Russia's hostility, we shouldn't be making threats, we should sit down and talk things out like adults. Or, we should keep our nose out of their business and let these countries work out their problems by themselves.

I'm tired of our military being stretched to the limits in Iraq, I certainly don't want to see an entire generation drafted because we feel this need to have the bigger penis in the room by exercising our military might and diplomatic aggressiveness.

Nor did I say we needed to be a part of that situation.........I was speaking in general terms.....

Isolationism does not mean just military action.......there are many, many, many more factors involved........

 

[Doug]

We never ended the cold war...