Are we facing a new Cold War?

[TheGreenMeanie]

I think both countries are caught up in their egos and their need to flex their international muscles. Just look at the fact we are putting interceptors in Poland. If there was ever a strike Europe would be toast before we could even respond. Its all about letting Russia and the Middle East know that America is still here and closer than before. Which I think is insane since our military is already stretched to its limit with Afghanistan, Iraq, and all our other little projects. Imagine if Iran wanted to put "interceptors" in Mexico. We would flip!

Then you have Russia who just can't work on being a better nation for its people. They have to continue to show the world they're still as powerful as ever, and that means making sure all the former USSR nations remember that as well. This situation will not be as bad as the Cold War, but if people ever think tensions really died they're not thinking that well. We will always have problems with each other and there will be a lot that comes from this situation I'm sure. I do not think there will be a military conflict though.

Hey this kind of stuff is what happens when you have red necks and x kgb's running countries.

 

[Doug]

Those missles from what I have read can only be used as a defense... like shooting down other missles. They do not have long range capability and do not hold much power.

However thats what they say... so who knows.

 

[Doug]

Did I respond to your quotes?

No...

Which means that I don't deny that some of them had pre-existing opinions on Iraq...

Hey dude sorry for coming off like a dick on my post to you...

 

[TheGreenMeanie]

I believe the fact that American Missiles being in these countries back yards period is what upsets everyone and why I say we are trying to flex our muscles. It would be ignorant to not acknowledge what America gets out of this situation.

However, if you want to believe that there will only be defensive missiles there thats cool, but I don't trust any party in this matter, and could easily see otherwise.

 

[Doug]

No no no not saying I believe it... just saying what I have been reading...

I think it is quite a touchy subject...
I think Poland wants the missles there more than US...

 

[TheGreenMeanie]

I Know you weren't. That was kind of directed to anyone who takes that stance. I didn't do that great of a job at expressing that lol. Sorry.

 

[Cinemaman]

I think there are emotions on both sides......

And IMO, Russia needs to move its troops out....AND AT THE SAME TIME....the Georgian government needs to put a leash on it's troops.....

Kosovo had the backing of Europe, NATO, the UN etc.....I'm sorry, no matter how strongly you feel about this......Russians in South Ossetia and Abkhazia do not.....that is reality.

Your "emotions" may be only on the Western side, because the only thing which Russian troops had to do was to save people. And, during the post-Soviet era, Georgia refused to negotiate with South Ossetia and Abkhazia about its status, and then they started the war to get the land, not the republics. They care only about the land. What South Ossetia and Abkhazia want is to become independent from Georgia and unite with Russia.

Russia has already moved its troops, but they will need to get back, as Georgians are going to start backfiring again. And if you think that the Georgian government will do this, you're too naive, because they have become too barefaced to even care about what can Russia do to their country. And you know why? Because Bush supports Saakashvili.

Huh? You tell me what the reality is? My God! That's so clear that it's all about money. UN and NATO are headed by USA, and the AMerican givernment supports Saakashvili's crazy actions. He not only sent 18 years old kids to kill ordinary people, but also spitted at Russia and make it out like Russians were killing Georgians.

I think this argue makes no sense, because you don't really know so much about what is actually happenning in Caucasus, just like the American government.

 

[Cinemaman]

I think both countries are caught up in their egos and their need to flex their international muscles. Just look at the fact we are putting interceptors in Poland. If there was ever a strike Europe would be toast before we could even respond. Its all about letting Russia and the Middle East know that America is still here and closer than before. Which I think is insane since our military is already stretched to its limit with Afghanistan, Iraq, and all our other little projects. Imagine if Iran wanted to put "interceptors" in Mexico. We would flip!

Then you have Russia who just can't work on being a better nation for its people. They have to continue to show the world they're still as powerful as ever, and that means making sure all the former USSR nations remember that as well. This situation will not be as bad as the Cold War, but if people ever think tensions really died they're not thinking that well. We will always have problems with each other and there will be a lot that comes from this situation I'm sure. I do not think there will be a military conflict though.

Hey this kind of stuff is what happens when you have red necks and x kgb's running countries.

If you mean that Poland case, then you should be aware of the fact that American missles put Russia under the great menace, and that's why Russia doesn't like the whole idea.

Besides, don't forget that Russia has always had great influence on countries of Caucasus. It doesn't try to threat anybody, and it actually helps its post-Soviet republics such as North and South Ossetia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Dagestan, Kabardino-Balkaria, Adygea, Kalmykia, Karachay-Cherkessia, and Ingushetia with economic problems, which they got as a result of independence.

 

[Tron5000]

Georgia did not start a war. Russia was arming and funding South Ossetian separatists, who attacked Georgian interests in South Ossetia (which is still a part of Georgia). Georgia responded by returning fire, and Russia said that Georgia provoked the entire thing.

The Georgian response was on Friday, and on Thursday, Russia had hacked into and shut down several Georgian government web sites, in preparation for the attacks. So if Russia started this on Thursday, and Georgia attacked on Friday, how exactly did Georgia start a war?

 

[Cinemaman]

Georgia did not start a war. Russia was arming and funding South Ossetian separatists, who attacked Georgian interests in South Ossetia (which is still a part of Georgia). Georgia responded by returning fire, and Russia said that Georgia provoked the entire thing.

The Georgian response was on Friday, and on Thursday, Russia had hacked into and shut down several Georgian government web sites, in preparation for the attacks. So if Russia started this on Thursday, and Georgia attacked on Friday, how exactly did Georgia start a war?

What? It's all wrong. Russia didn't do anything. First, Georgia started attacking South Ossetia and then killing people to get to Abkhazia. Then, the Russian government sent its troops to save people in South Ossetia, 90% of which consists Russian citizens. And then Georgia began all this mass media stuff to blame Russia in what it didn't do. They still continue working on their plan to reach Abkhazia and start mass killings there as well.

Now tell me, did you get all that BS from CNN or/and FOX?

 

[StorminNorman]

What? It's all wrong. Russia didn't do anything. First, Georgia started attacking South Ossetia and then killing people to get to Abkhazia. Then, the Russian government sent its troops to save people in South Ossetia, 90% of which consists Russian citizens. And then Georgia began all this mass media stuff to blame Russia in what it didn't do. They still continue working on their plan to reach Abkhazia and start mass killings there as well.

Now tell me, did you get all that BS from CNN or/and FOX?

If Russia was really Mr. Innocent - why won't they follow the cease fire they have agreed to?

 

[Tron5000]

What? It's all wrong. Russia didn't do anything. First, Georgia started attacking South Ossetia and then killing people to get to Abkhazia. Then, the Russian government sent its troops to save people in South Ossetia, 90% of which consists Russian citizens. And then Georgia began all this mass media stuff to blame Russia in what it didn't do. They still continue working on their plan to reach Abkhazia and start mass killings there as well.

Now tell me, did you get all that BS from CNN or/and FOX?

I get my news from various media outlets. I'm kind of a nerd, so I read a lot.

So tell me: If Russia started hacking into and attacking Georgian government web sites on Thursday (in preparation for an invasion), and Georgia attacked South Ossetia on Friday, do you not find that a bit odd?

Russia planned the entire thing to coincide with the opening of the Beijing Olympics, knowing that the world would be fixated on the games and the invasion of Georgia would be greatly overlooked. Russia had been arming and funding separatists for years in preparation for the attack. It was well executed, and even after Russia agreed to pull out (on more than one occasion), they still pressed further into Georgia until world powers (i.e. US) let it be known that their actions would no longer be tolerated.

Why on Earth would Georgia attack a province of its own country with the knowledge that it would bring about a response from the military and Communist power that is Russia? That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[SuBe]

If Russia was really Mr. Innocent - why won't they follow the cease fire they have agreed to?

Better Questions, why did they set Landmines and fire on Reporters?

 

[Cinemaman]

If Russia was really Mr. Innocent - why won't they follow the cease fire they have agreed to?

I said that its troops were coming back, but recently Georgian army took another village in South Ossetia, so Russian troops stayed there to protect ossetians.

Besides, 6 regulation items made by Medvedev and Sarkozy were suggested to UN, which didn't agree to recognize it.

 

[Cinemaman]

Better Questions, why did they set Landmines and fire on Reporters?

There were no foreign reporters in South Ossetia during the attack. They all were in Georgia, because Russia didn't call them. And they suffered because of Georgian soldiers, who are 18 years old teens.

 

[kytrigger]

What? It's all wrong. Russia didn't do anything. First, Georgia started attacking South Ossetia and then killing people to get to Abkhazia. Then, the Russian government sent its troops to save people in South Ossetia, 90% of which consists Russian citizens. And then Georgia began all this mass media stuff to blame Russia in what it didn't do. They still continue working on their plan to reach Abkhazia and start mass killings there as well.

Now tell me, did you get all that BS from CNN or/and FOX?

No, Georgian posts were being hit with Artillery fire the day before Georgia moved in and attacked. Now some are claiming the Russian peacekeepers fired (but there isn't any proof at all of this). Most likely though, the South Ossetians fired on them, but the Russian peacekeepers definately stood by and watched it happen.

And if Russia was only concerned about saving the Ossetian citizens, they definately wouldn't have hired out Chechens. I'm sure you're very well aware of the Chechen militants' reputation. They are considered to be one of the most brutal group in existence and tend to be described as having no morals whatsoever, and they love that they are classified that way (they would probably take this description as a compliment). You do not send Chechens into this fight without trying to make a very clear statement, one Putin knows very well.


As for the Poland thing, both the US and Poland have given numeros offers to Russia to actualyl inspect the defense system and show that it isn't an offensive weapon aimed at them. hell, they've even said Russia can demand certain terms they wish to be met while they inspect the missiles. They have done almost everything just short of actually giving Russia a PATRIOT missile and letting them reverse engineer it, and every single time, Russia has simply refused to even inspect the project.

 

[Cinemaman]

I get my news from various media outlets. I'm kind of a nerd, so I read a lot.

So tell me: If Russia started hacking into and attacking Georgian government web sites on Thursday (in preparation for an invasion), and Georgia attacked South Ossetia on Friday, do you not find that a bit odd?

Russia planned the entire thing to coincide with the opening of the Beijing Olympics, knowing that the world would be fixated on the games and the invasion of Georgia would be greatly overlooked. Russia had been arming and funding separatists for years in preparation for the attack. It was well executed, and even after Russia agreed to pull out (on more than one occasion), they still pressed further into Georgia until world powers (i.e. US) let it be known that their actions would no longer be tolerated.

Why on Earth would Georgia attack a province of its own country with the knowledge that it would bring about a response from the military and Communist power that is Russia? That just doesn't make any sense.

Again, RUSSIA DIDN'T BLOCk ANY WEB SITES. We didn't even know what was happenning in South Ossetia until Georgians started mass killings. And if you read a lot, then you should know that the Georgian government blocked regular access to the Internet.

I think you should really change your sources, because Russian troops got there after Georgians started killing people. They planned it to reach Abkhazia. Just think about it, why would Russia need to randomly begin killing people in Georgia? Georgia has been working on their plan for years, otherwise why would they require USA to supply them with foreign weapons made in Turkey, Israel and other countries?

AGAIN, neither South Ossetia nor Abkhazia are part of Georgia. In March'93, the Georgian government refused to negotiate with those two republics after receiving independence. Now they want land, not people. And 90% of people living in South Ossetia ARE RUSSIAN CITIZENS. SO why would Russia kill its own people? The problem is that people, who live in Western countries has never had any interest in what is going on in Caucasus.

Besides, Saakashvili thought USA will help him, as he is Bush's puppet.

 

[Cinemaman]

No, Georgian posts were being hit with Artillery fire the day before Georgia moved in and attacked. Now some are claiming the Russian peacekeepers fired (but there isn't any proof at all of this). Most likely though, the South Ossetians fired on them, but the Russian peacekeepers definately stood by and watched it happen.

And if Russia was only concerned about saving the Ossetian citizens, they definately wouldn't have hired out Chechens. I'm sure you're very well aware of the Chechen militants' reputation. They are considered to be one of the most brutal group in existence and tend to be described as having no morals whatsoever, and they love that they are classified that way (they would probably take this description as a compliment). You do not send Chechens into this fight without trying to make a very clear statement, one Putin knows very well.


As for the Poland thing, both the US and Poland have given numeros offers to Russia to actualyl inspect the defense system and show that it isn't an offensive weapon aimed at them. hell, they've even said Russia can demand certain terms they wish to be met while they inspect the missiles. They have done almost everything just short of actually giving Russia a PATRIOT missile and letting them reverse engineer it, and every single time, Russia has simply refused to even inspect the project.

How could South Ossetians do that, if they have no weapons, while Georgians ordered weapons from Tirkey and Israel? Huh?

And have you seen today's Tskhinvali? It's totally destroyed! And as for Chechens, their reoublic is a apart of Russia, therefore they are allowed to be hired by the Russian government. Yes, Russia needed them, because Georgians were about to start a genocide. They killed more than 2,000 people.

You don't get the point. Russia donesn't want Poland to have them, because it puts the country under a great menace, do you understand? It's like Russia would put its missles in Mexico.

 

[Tron5000]

Again, RUSSIA DIDN'T BLOCk ANY WEB SITES. We didn't even know what was happenning in South Ossetia until Georgians started mass killings. And if you read a lot, then you should know that the Georgian government blocked regular access to the Internet.

I think you should really change your sources, because Russian troops got there after Georgians started killing people. They planned it to reach Abkhazia. Just think about it, why would Russia need to randomly begin killing people in Georgia? Georgia has been working on their plan for years, otherwise why would they require USA to supply them with foreign weapons made in Turkey, Israel and other countries?

AGAIN, neither South Ossetia nor Abkhazia are part of Georgia. In March'93, the Georgian government refused to negotiate with those two republics after receiving independence. Now they want land, not people. And 90% of people living in South Ossetia ARE RUSSIAN CITIZENS. SO why would Russia kill its own people? The problem is that people, who live in Western countries has never had any interest in what is going on in Caucasus.

Besides, Saakashvili thought USA will help him, as he is Bush's puppet.

They are not part of Georgia? Take a look at a map.

"Why would Russia need to randomly begin killing people in Georgia"? Because they have been trying for years to absorb both South Ossetia and Abkhazia back into Russia, in order to reform the USSR. Putin is ex-KGB and seeks to restore the USSR to its former glory. This includes gaining back the outer states that once constituted the USSR. This has been going on for a long time. They have given citizens of Georgia that live in South Osssetia and Abkhazia Russian citizenship. Next, it will be the Ukraine.

 

[Tron5000]

Wow, Bush sure has a lot of "puppets." If he's such an idiot, as neolibs claim, how was he able to trick all these people into letting him put his hand up their arse and manipulate them? Useful idiot indeed.

 

[Cinemaman]

They are not part of Georgia? Take a look at a map.

"Why would Russia need to randomly begin killing people in Georgia"? Because they have been trying for years to absorb both South Ossetia and Abkhazia back into Russia, in order to reform the USSR. Putin is ex-KGB and seeks to restore the USSR to its former glory. This includes gaining back the outer states that once constituted the USSR. This has been going on for a long time. They have given citizens of Georgia that live in South Osssetia and Abkhazia Russian citizenship. Next, it will be the Ukraine.

They were Georgia's part. But again, after Georgia received its independence, it refused to negotiate with South Ossetia and Abkhazia about their status. So they started requiring to be recognized as independent republics as well. The Georgian government didn't like it, and they started the war.

Do you understand that South Ossetia and Abkhazia want this, not Russia. This was confirmed by their presidents several times. And Putin is nomore a president, and even if he is ex-KGB, this doesn't mean anything as long as McCain is a veteran of Vietnam war.

And Russia doesn't need Ukraine, they have enough territory. What Russia doesn't want is Ukraine to stop the partnership, which has been developing for years. Besides, Ukraine has enough in-house problems.

 

[Tron5000]

Putin is no longer president, but he is prime minister and is still calling all the shots in Russia.

You're telling me Russia doesn't want South Ossetia and Abkhazia? They're just arming and funding the separatists and giving them Russian citizenship out of the goodness of their heart 'cause they're such swell people? Come on, now. You can't really believe the things that you're typing, can you?

And what on God's green Earth does McCain's veteran status have to do with the fact that Putin was a KGB operative? KGB and US Navy are not in any way synonymous.

 

[StorminNorman]

Russia is a country being ran by a Former KGB Tyrant who is ruthless and evil. He is not above poisoning his enemies and certainly not above staging a crisis in order to regain Soviet land.

Putin has proved over and over again he does NOT deserve the benefit of the doubt in any situation and that, if for no other reason, is exactly why I support Georgia.

 

[Cinemaman]

Putin is no longer president, but he is prime minister and is still calling all the shots in Russia.

You're telling me Russia doesn't want South Ossetia and Abkhazia? They're just arming and funding the separatists and giving them Russian citizenship out of the goodness of their heart 'cause they're such swell people? Come on, now. You can't really believe the things that you're typing, can you?

So what? Did he do anything wrong, just because he doesn't agree with most of positions USA takes in the relationships between Russia and USA?

What I meant is that South Ossetia and Abkhazia want to be independent and at the same time unite with Russia, and Russia only helps them to achieve it.

As I said, Russia has had great influence on all countries of Caucasus for years, and it still has it. You can ask yourself, why then USA supply Georgia with weapons made in Turkey and Israel? For what? Maybe for the future war with Russia? Why did the American government became so interested in Georgia? Oil pipeline maybe?

And I thought here in America there is a freedom of word, right? Then why that f***ing Fox reporter stoped that Ossetian girl from telling the truth? Because the AMerican government doesn't want its people to know the truth.

 

[Tron5000]

So what? Did he do anything wrong, just because he doesn't agree with most of positions USA takes in the relationships between Russia and USA?

What I meant is that South Ossetia and Abkhazia want to be independent and at the same time unite with Russia, and Russia only helps them to achieve it.

As I said, Russia has had great influence on all countries of Caucasus for years, and it still has it. You can ask yourself, why then USA supplies Georgia with weapons made in Turkey and Israel? For what? Maybe for the future war with Russia?

And I thought here in America there is a freedom of word, right? Then why that f***ing Fox reporter stoped that Ossetian girl from telling the truth? Because the AMerican government doesn't want its people to know the truth.

The USA provides Georgia with weapons with which they can defend themselves from an attack, possibly from Russia (as happened a couple weeks ago). Georgia is a democratic, westernized nation that seeks NATO membership.

Are you really comparing the American government's aversion to "truth" with the Russian government's oppression of facts?

Yes, Georgia is against South Ossetia and Abkhazia breaking off and joining Russia. If Texas wanted to join Mexico, would we be cool with that? Doubtful.