Bond 25 - Part 1

[Kahran Ramsus]

Fine, but then don't brag about it beforehand, because it makes you look disingenuous.

In-universe, characters are presented or portrayed as Bond's equal, including several (and possibly most) Bond girls.

What I'm referring to is what we as viewers know because James Bond is a work of fiction and we know how fictional storytelling works. It doesn't matter how big or strong or competent a character is said to be in-universe. Bond is always going to be the focus because he's the main protagonist. The films are about him, not the supporting cast.

The point is that with practically every film the lead actress says she's a different type of Bond girl, one that within the confines of the story is competent and can hold her own as opposed to a useless damsel in distress, even though many or even most Bond girls are like that. So what they are saying ends up being completely not true. They say they are different and unique, but they aren't at all.

 

[Dark Raven]

In-universe, characters are presented or portrayed as Bond's equal, including several (and possibly most) Bond girls.

What I'm referring to is what we as viewers know because James Bond is a work of fiction and we know how fictional storytelling works. It doesn't matter how big or strong or competent a character is said to be in-universe. Bond is always going to be the focus because he's the main protagonist. The films are about him, not the supporting cast.

The point is that with practically every film the lead actress says she's a different type of Bond girl, one that within the confines of the story is competent and can hold her own as opposed to a useless damsel in distress, even though many or even most Bond girls are like that. So what they are saying ends up being completely not true. They say they are different and unique, but they aren't at all.

I want an actress to play a Stacey Sutton type and say that she's not like the typical Bond girl because most of them can hold their own. Then she can point out how over the years they've mostly been this way and not damsels in distress like some people think.

 

[DKDetective]

I want an actress to play a Stacey Sutton type and say that she's not like the typical Bond girl because most of them can hold their own. Then she can point out how over the years they've mostly been this way and not damsels in distress like some people think.

I'd love for them to do a proper Gala Brand-type. An equally competant professional, who Bond pursues in his Bondian way, there is some mutual attraction, but she rejects him at the end when according to Bond formula they are supposed to celebrate the end of the mission in romantic bliss.

 

[chamber-music]

Yeah, Bond's pretty much been painted as an out-of-touch chauvinistic dinosaur with no place in the modern world since 1995.

Where's all of this coming from? It's sort of who the guy is. He's old-Britain, Queen & Country, blunt-force-trauma, bone-anything-that-moves, screw-the-rules, "I do what I want because I'm an entitled old-money guy with a chip on my shoulder and the skills to back up my arrogance".

Basically, Bond shouldn't fly anymore. And yet he does, and that's why it's interesting. Guy's basically everything that shouldn't be acceptable anymore. Change that, and he's not really Bond.

Yep.

Bond is very much a anachronism. They have called him a cold war relic since the mid-nineties.

It'd just come off really cynically forced post-modern.

Those tabloid rumors about Idris Elba or Gillian Anderson or whoever they were talking about as potential new Bonds, I just...it doesn't work. Cast them as other 00 agents, totally, go for it. Great actors, that'd be awesome. Even make them better at the job than Bond is, contrast his old-timey out of date "kill and screw and kill some more, raise a middle finger at M and down three martinis" stuff with someone more professional & acceptable and representative of the modern world & modern Britain.

But modern, current, socially-acceptable, forward-looking, that's not Bond. He's supposed to be outdated and representative of a "time before", it's been there in all the incarnations even if it's emphasized more in some than others.

A female Bond, a black Bond, basically by definition oozes "current-day", "representative of modern inclusive Britain". Which just isn't Bond.

But both of those casting choices, just do it, make 'em both 004 and 009 or whatever. Make them the opposite type of agent to James, just as effective but in totally different ways.

Best of both worlds. You get the up-to-date inclusive representativeness within MI6, but Bond's still the smug arrogant drunken two-fists-McGee socially-unacceptable pr*ck he's always been.

I've said it before but I'll say it again.

Why not just do a spin off movie with a female or minority 00 Agent set in the Bond universe?

You can have an original character have adventures and still feature franchise characters and organisations like M, Moneypenny, Q and Spectre.

For me that seems like a way to appease people that want to see a diverse super spy in Bond's world without it being Bond. Everyone is trying to do cinematic universes these days so why not try a Bond spin off franchise?

It also allows creators to try to introduce new things into the franchise that they perhaps possible couldn't with the traditional expectations of a Bond movie.

 

[TheVileOne]

Fine, but then don't brag about it beforehand, because it makes you look disingenuous.

I agree with the sentiment Loki882, but actors always kind of do that. They are trying to hype up their character and the film. And actors, producers, directors, they always tend to exaggerate or use vapid hyperbole to express how non-typical their character or role is.

Like oh, Agent 13 gets to fight in Civil War. Well yeah, she does get to fight and she does have an actual subplot in the film. But...her only fight is the one where does like one move and gets easily swatted aside by the Winter Soldier.

 

[elgaz]

I've no desire to see a female 007.

What I would find interesting, is a female antagonist. There's been females who double-crossed Bond and female adversaries in the role of henchmen (henchwomen?), but has the main villain of any Bond film ever been female?

It would provide a very different scenario for Bond. He usually fights his male adversary with his fists, but faced with a woman who he finds both dangerous and alluring, he could find himself conflicted.

 

[LTuser]

Yep.

Bond is very much a anachronism. They have called him a cold war relic since the mid-nineties.

Yup. Goldeneye the first Brosnan movie, is where Dame Dench said that of him..

I've no desire to see a female 007.

What I would find interesting, is a female antagonist. There's been females who double-crossed Bond and female adversaries in the role of henchmen (henchwomen?), but has the main villain of any Bond film ever been female?

It would provide a very different scenario for Bond. He usually fights his male adversary with his fists, but faced with a woman who he finds both dangerous and alluring, he could find himself conflicted.

I'd love to see a strong, smart female villian..

 

[TheVileOne]

If it was a female villain that Bond ultimately overcomes and defeats...doesn't that just reinforce the problem rather than fix it? Just in interest of discussion.

 

[Abudefduf]

You know what would be refreshing? A female villain that is not a Bond girl. When was the last time Bond fought an older woman? I'm pretty sure it was Rosa Klebb in From Russia with Love.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I've no desire to see a female 007.

What I would find interesting, is a female antagonist. There's been females who double-crossed Bond and female adversaries in the role of henchmen (henchwomen?), but has the main villain of any Bond film ever been female?

It would provide a very different scenario for Bond. He usually fights his male adversary with his fists, but faced with a woman who he finds both dangerous and alluring, he could find himself conflicted.

The main villain has been a woman twice. Rosa Klebb in FRWL and Elektra King in TWINE.

As for being conflicted:

"You wouldn't kill me. You'd miss me."
*BANG*
"I never miss."

Bond is a cold blooded assassin. He will hesitate if he senses something is up (see TLD, for example). But if he knows someone is a villain, he will gun them down.

 

[TheVileOne]

He's a blunt instrument. Not a superhero.

 

[Silvermoth]

I feel like people would panic about change til it happens and then no one would care about it come the results come out.

It's like comics a few years ago when people lost it at the idea of a woman Thor or captain marvel in a costume that wasn't a g-string. It was an issue til it wasn't. And really there's more important things to worry about

 

[Aximili86]

That female villain thing is really intriguing, I'd be all for that.

Hell, on that note, I'd love to have seen them just run with a female Blofeld if they felt the need to reinvent him. Rather than that adopted-brother blahhh bull**** we got in Spectre.

That would have been a great opportunity for a female villain that Bond doesn't have to physically mess-up or kill, she gets away at the end to plague him another day. Brains over brawn, puppet-master, major nemesis and the type that wouldn't necessitate the troubling issue of Bond having to hit or shoot or kill.

Still really aching to see more 00 agents though, it was the best part of Goldeneye. Only this time don't have them traitor. Just like...M's had enough of James' bull**** and forces him to operate alongside (or even subservient to, answering to) a very-proficient/capable, by-the-book, modern-MI6 agent, and make them a woman or a person of color.

Compare & contrast. Bond doesn't necessarily prevail where they fail, he doesn't come in to save the day as such, but they both take down the bad guy in unison, totally different approaches in contrast with one another but both playing their parts.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I'd be all for another female villain at some point, though preferably not Blofeld.

 

[chamber-music]

A spin off 00 Agent who is a woman or minority would also been interesting in seeing how they would contrast in Bonds world.

How does a different 00 Agent save the world in their own way?

How do they deal with the lying and killing they have to do? Bond deals with it with booze, gallows humor and womanizing.

We have seen M dealing with a maverick like Bond but it would be cool to see how M would interact with a different type of 00 Agent. Perhaps a 00 Agent from a different background or one that holds strong political or ethical views and challenges him in a different way.

Kingsman somewhat touched on class with a working class spy.

 

[elgaz]

If it was a female villain that Bond ultimately overcomes and defeats...doesn't that just reinforce the problem rather than fix it? Just in interest of discussion.

It depends on your perspective, I guess. Feminists often scream for equality but many would go nuts if they saw their heroine being beaten by a male adversary. Whereas my personal opinion would be - it's a Bond film, he's obviously going to overcome the villain at the end - just as he has done for 50+ years. It doesn't actually matter if that villain is male or female. Isn't that the greatest equality of all?

That's not to say a female villain couldn't do huge damage to him beforehand, not just physically but perhaps emotionally.

In fact, given this very discussion, I'd find a female villain very refreshing - one who is not seduced at all by Bond, but who personifies some of the grievances that certain people have with the character, and who finds his chauvinism, womanising and sexism appalling. It would be a way to tackle those issues in an outspoken way onscreen without actually replacing Bond.

The main villain has been a woman twice. Rosa Klebb in FRWL and Elektra King in TWINE.

As for being conflicted:

"You wouldn't kill me. You'd miss me."
*BANG*
"I never miss."

Bond is a cold blooded assassin. He will hesitate if he senses something is up (see TLD, for example). But if he knows someone is a villain, he will gun them down.

Cheers, forgot about those examples.

Bond is a cold blooded assassin for sure, but women have always been his achilles heel. How many times in the films has he found himself in some precarious situation because he was double-crossed/manipulated/deceived by some female he was either in love with or wanted to bed?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Bond is a cold blooded assassin for sure, but women have always been his achilles heel. How many times in the films has he found himself in some precarious situation because he was double-crossed/manipulated/deceived by some female he was either in love with or wanted to bed?

That's not unique to women though. He's gotten into trouble because of male allies misleading/betraying him as well, such as with Kristatos and Trevelyan. And it isn't like he has a total blindspot with women where he ignores good evidence that they are betraying him. In the case of Elektra, he knows she's evil well before her "reveal." It is M that has the blindspot towards her and won't believe him. He knows Fiona Volpe is working for SPECTRE pretty much when he first meets her. He knows Tatiana in FRWL is setting him up when he first hears about her in M's office before he even meets her and makes his plans accordingly expecting her betrayal (which is why he lies to her about his real escape route from the Orient Express).

 

[LTuser]

If it was a female villain that Bond ultimately overcomes and defeats...doesn't that just reinforce the problem rather than fix it? Just in interest of discussion.

Reinforce what problem? That the hero always wins?

 

[Marvolo]

Christopher Nolan Takes His Name Out of the Running to Direct Next Bond Film

During an interview with BBC Radio 4, Nolan took him name out of the running for the next Bond flick.

"I won’t be the man. No, categorically. I think every time they hire a new director I’m rumored to be doing it."

Despite declining the hypothetical gig, Christopher Nolan said he would "love to make a Bond film at some point," adding that producers [Michael G. Wilson and Barbara Broccoli] do a "tremendous job and Sam Mendes has done a terrific job the last couple of films, so they don’t particularly need me. But I’ve always been very inspired by the films and would love to do one someday."



http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/chr...t-of-the-running-to-direct-next-bond-film-311

 

[Silvermoth]

I think that's for the best to be honest

 

[kvz5]

There might be some Bond news tomorrow. Variety’s film reporter been hinting it.

http://twitter.com/krolljvar/status/964684434199867392

(this GIF might be a clue or... a troll post)
http://twitter.com/krolljvar/status/965842475096031233

 

[Jekecy]

Everyone in that thread is assuming Bale's going to be Craig's successor, but the obvious hint is Bale's actually the lead baddie.

 

[Sawyer]

As derangedly excited as I would be if it were some sort of Bale/Batman thing, him being a Bond villain is also great and actually in the realm of possibility, so

 

[Black Narcissus]

Leo Dicaprio as the villain.

Now that would be worthy big news.

 

[kvz5]

He posted a Gosling GIF too. He’s totally trolling now.