(1) There's only 7 "X-men" films. You say that as if it's some great accomplishment to be called one of the greatest amongst X-men 3, Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix;
(2) Even if it was the greatest*, that doesn't mean people can't complain about parts of it. Even the scene that you hold up as some standard for the MCU going forward, got bad marks from members on this very page. And btw, in the quote you're responding to I was only replying to someone who thought he was the only one that hated that movie. And considering you always act defensive when someone gives DOFP the most minor of compliments, maybe dial down the hysterics. Not everyone's going to love what you love;
(3) *DOFP and *X2 are "the greatest."
1) 7 is a large number in the context of a franchise like this. A trilogy and a quodrilogy broken up by a Wolverine trilogy, a Deadpool duology and a New Mutants spinoff film--Over the span of 20 years. First Class stands out as a jewel
2) Fair enough
3) X2? Absolutely. That film is Singer's magnum opus IMO. DOFP? It's a great film on it's own. But it feels like the epic conclusion to a second trilogy (X6), and not a FC sequel.
Ah the old "It was bad because it was supposed to be bad" defense. If only the non-McAvoy and non-Fassbender scenes in FC can claim that excuse.
More like, it's cringy/campy because the scene is supposed to convey that these kids are starting to form a group dynamic and learn about each other, while also creating their own identities, and defining themselves. But doing in a way that kids excited to be a part of something like this, would. it's authentic, it feels real.
And it's not just Raven. For most everyone in that room, it's the first time they are meeting other mutants like themselves, and it's very exciting to them! I love that scene
Not completely different—all of the scenes mentioned are about the non-main cast / ‘younger’ mutants of each respective movie. Dialogues different of course.
The scenes I mentioned handled the interactions of youth better and I think were better-written & realized. I don’t think kids being “cringey” is excuse for awkward / ill-advised script scene.
Well, the context of these scenes are different. The subject is different, so naturally, the writing is different.
One focuses on a group of excited superpowered youngsters coming together for the first time, and the other is about an established group of kids dealing with the troublemaker of the group. (One is meant to set up a group dynamic and the other to set up Pyro's character)
Also, I don't see how the Apocalypse scenes are better. We never learn anything about those characters in any of the scenes they share. They never connect, they never share. Scott, Kurt and Jean get hardly
any development in that movie (Well, we learn that there's a "power" inside of her (Phoenix) that is "growing".. But this doesn't cover any bases that we didn't
already know from the OT. Jean is basically a plot device in this movie to get things rolling... Need the kids to hitch a ride on a military aircraft to set up a contrived Wolverine appearance that serves absolutely zero purpose in the narrative? Use Jean. Need Wolverine to exit the movie after said contrived appearance? Use Jean. Need Apocalypse to be defeated? Use Jean)--
We end the movie knowing as much about them as we did when we began it.
That’s X-Men though? Protecting a world that hates and fears them. And Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix, for the record, had the mutants being celebrated in society.
True. But there are many ways to interpret the theme of "
Fighting for a world that hates and fears you". Singer chose to interpret that theme as showing mutants hiding and fighting, for survival in a much darker, more grounded world that mirrors our own. It's mutants against... Everyone.
Deadpool had it's own interpretation of this theme by making mutants a recognized minority in society, and thus more directly analogous to real-world minority groups i.e Sex trafficking, Prison industrial complex, Conversion therapy etc... But for mutants
Similarly, Spider-Man: Homecoming interprets the theme of "With great power, comes great responsibility" differently from past films. Instead of using Uncle Ben, and Peter's own failings in life, they use Tony Stark, Peter's suit, and his desperation to be an Avenger in spite of his responsibility.
"If you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it." = "With great power, comes great responsibility". The beats are hit differently but the end result is the same. Peter sacrifices and accepts/learns the lesson of rsponsibility.
The point, Singer's was one interpretation of what "Fighting for a world that hates and fears you" means. Marvel Studios can interpret the context of what that means in a different way, while still conveying the same theme
They're kids. Kids are cringe. Kids do cringy things. This is how kids act. If you were a 17 year old with the power to break the sound barrier with your voice, and you were in a room with other kids who could do equally weird odd/cool things, this is likely how it would play out. You'd have a bunch of teenagers doing crazy, stupid things. As teens are known for.
