Official Wolverine And The X-men, Episode 8, "Time Bomb" Discussion Thread

[Nightmare]

Damn that was a great episode. It's funny how easily White Queen dealt with Psylocke. Loved how the X-Men just blew off rogue like nothing.

 

[shadowdog]

Yeah that was a great episode.
(Do I really need spolier tags? Whose reading this thread expecting it to be spoiler free? It is a discussion of the episode thread after all. Anyway)
I thought it was pretty awesome to see Storm standing there with her cape blowing as she used her powers, it looked straight out of the comics
Iceman was pretty badass too
There were some funny lines
Kitty was awesome again
Psylocke got schooled by Emma, which was pretty cool to see
Hope we get some more X-Men team awesomeness next week

 

[DMRadz]

Damn that was a great episode. It's funny how easily White Queen dealt with Psylocke. Loved how the X-Men just blew off rogue like nothing.

I don't think they blow her off but treat her like a friend on the wrong side.

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

I loved how cold Wolverine was toward Rogue at the end. Great little moment that spoke worlds of how betrayed Wolverine felt by Rogue in Hindsight part 2.

My response to the other guy that is upset that Rogue isn't reall a bad guy, sorry, but that's not Rogue. Rogue sided with the Brotherhood more out of her abandoment issues, especially with Wolverine, and I think because deep down she likes Logan and she's upset that Logan isn't returning those feelings. Plus she feels that maybe she can do more help for mutants with the Brotherhood.

I especially liked the idea that Quicksilver is not on good terms with Magneto, and Quicksilver is trying to prove himself again to Daddy. Early on, I thought maybe Quicksilver was still in with Magneto and was working against the MRD for Magneto stateside. But this idea works so much better, in that Quicksilver is doing everything more to get himself back in good graces with Daddy. This is much more appropriate for the Quicksilver character. He's always struggled in his relationship with Magneto and wanting to be his true son.

 

[Jango X]

Anyone have a link to the episode to a site like Youtube or Megavideo? I dont want to download it....

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

bastard! all the previous places i have been to to watch the episodes do not have this episode. nor any of the old ones.

 

[Neto Magnus]

Question: If Blob had to bust open the doors to get out of the jet, then how in the hell did he get in there in the first place?

 

[shadowdog]

Question: If Blob had to bust open the doors to get out of the jet, then how in the hell did he get in there in the first place?

and how were they going to get back?

 

[Hush]

I have finally seen all the episodes now and I have to say that this show is pretty good but it will take some time to get amazing, I also would like to see more Cyclops.

 

[BobJM]

Good episode. Not great, but good. I'm waiting for things to pick up a little bit.

 

[javi1024]

ive been waiting for this one to finally come out translated ever since i found out Psylocke was in it. even though she didn't get as much screentime as i would have liked (and she got owned by Emma), this episode was still one of the best so far. its been pretty mediocre the past couple episodes.

 

[Dread]

After several weeks, we finally get an episode that lives up to the X-MEN portion of the title as the entire team gets a bit of play. In fact, a lot of characters do, both new and old for the series in "Time Bomb". At 8 episodes in, we are nearly a 3rd of the way through Season 1, with a second rumored to have been approved by Marvel already.

Still, while it is an improvement from last week's episode, and better than the Gambit one, it still has some issues and nitpicks. But is definitely more like how some of us envisioned these episodes in some ways.

Spoiler

A new mutant arrives at the MRD facility and surrenders himself to them, all the while Col. Wraith is busy taking insults from their latest capture, Toad (who appears to always get arrested). As the weakest link of the Brotherhood, Quicksilver is willing to allow him to rot in prison, until Toad tells him of this mutant who appears to be walking bomb - Nitro.

This may be the first time Nitro has been animated. Best know for CIVIL WAR, usually he battles Captain Marvel and other mainstream superheroes. Here he has a sleeker design and a more tragic outlook. Rather than being a vile criminal, he cannot control his powers and seeks asylum. He is, of course, OBVIOUSLY intended as someone who Rogue is supposed to have sympathy for, and the episode does not disappoint in that regard. She still acts as a conscience for the Brotherhood, disapproving of their militant tactics. This would seem more original had X-MEN EVOLUTION not played this card virtually the exact same way for the first half of Season 1 in 2000. Rogue joins the Brotherhood after being faced with little option elsewhere, due to manipulation. She learns the Brotherhood are too rough for her and becomes angsty. Tragedy eventually forces her into the X-Men and to her proper senses. This happened a bit in the comics, of course, but to be fair they are getting some decent milage of it. Fans opposed to the very nature of high school will find this version superior.

The other new mutant is Psylocke, a mutant Pietro freed from custody who he manipulates into serving them to "repay her debt". She also has a British accent and a flair for mischief. Quicksilver's voice is alright, if not whiney at times, but his design still looks unintentionally creepy. He looks like a 47 year old man in a Peter Pan costume that is a size too small. Toad is annoying, but not in that eventual lovable way as Evolution Toad was. Blob & Avalanche play to type and are fine goons. Domino is the femme fatale, but as her powers haven't been explained, someone not in the know could pull a Mr. Furious and grumble, "That's it!? That's your power; you have GUNS!?" This is the first time Psylocke has been animated since Season 4 of the 90's X-Men cartoon and this time she was not in her "blue duct tape" costume. I liked the effect to Psylocke's eyes when she used her power, it alluded back to the original comics.

Back at the Mansion, Logan is again taking his orders from Future Xavier, and the pair talk so intimately I was wondering when they will make out (for an Extra Unintentional Homoerotic Saturday, Toad also asks if Pietro is "dumping" him, complete with puppy dog eyes; he later all but grabs Pietro's upper thigh in landing next to him). Xavier gives Logan a mission, and Logan accepts it.

It was a cold day in hell this week because Scott actually spoke a few lines this week. However, they were all about Jean. He was tasking Emma to look for her, which she was unable to, perhaps citing that Jean truly was gone. Cyclops refuses to believe that, and later, for the first time, seems to disapprove of Logan's leadership when he reports that Nitro needs to be rescued from the Brotherhood and then sent back to the feds. But, then Logan says the magic words: "Xavier said so." Which is always enough for Scott. Next week; Wolverine orders they skull-**** Jean's corpse, and Scott allows it because Xavier said so.

Frankly, THIS is why people believe Scott is a stiff character. He does nothing unless someone mentions Jean or Xavier. Otherwise he seems to have no drive or personality of his own. It would have been better had the Future Xavier angle not been hammered in so often, and if Scott & Logan argued over command decisions or tactics, rather than things like this. This sort of dynamic would work if things were more subtle, and this show is about as subtle as a Chuck Norris film. Wolverine himself is also less interesting because rather than seeing how he would run the X-Men, he simply is doing whatever Future Xavier tells him. Why is THAT skill specific to Logan? Why not Beast? Or even Kitty? Wouldn't any X-Man choose to just pick "listen to whatever Xavier says" as a leadership tactic? Once again, an area where some more creativity or tact would have made for a more effective result.

But, onto the positive. Quicksilver kicks arse and was amusing in the jailbreak sequence, although it is funny how the Brotherhood are all about "liberating mutants" but instead of freeing everyone in the block (as Logan did in episode one), they just free who they select. That's not a writing flaw; the Brotherhood have often been hypocritical like that. Nitro and Rogue do have some good scenes, even if they play out as you would expect. Quicksilver uses Nitro to blow up an MRD database (which conveniently is unmanned) before setting up a flight to Genosha. Apparently Magneto is displeased with Quicksilver and he has been out to "prove" himself. It is an interesting angle; it sort of sets up Magneto as a "retired founder terrorist" to Quicksilver's "overeager young terrorist". It is this act that Future Xavier tells the X-Men to prevent.

Kitty manages to snag Nitro in an impressive sequence, and after an ice-water landing from Iceman, the two teams battle it out for the first time in a while. Even Storm is in on the action! Emma Frost, meanwhile, deliberately leaves Forge on the sideline so she can have a psychic duel with Psylocke, simply to prove her mettle as a telepath, a fight that doesn't go well for Betsy. The fight was pretty good; a step up from WOLVERINE VS. THE HULK last week as well as some of the fights in FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH. Cyclops gets in a blast on Avalanche and Quicksilver zips back and forth. Kitty vs. Domino was also memorable. The only caveat is when Beast saves Storm from an ice block hurled by Blob; rather than just grab her and leap away, he decides to grab the block, so he can crash with it against the ground and Storm can get angry. While the sight of Blob being zapped to unconsciousness was amusing, the backdrop seemed forced. Storm manages to save the day from Nitro, and Wolverine's "Stop saving me!" line complete with reaction was priceless.

I do wonder why the X-Men couldn't simply try to store Nitro in a tank of their own, rather than hand him back to the MRD by default. If the dilemma was him being conscious and inevitable to explode, why not at least keep him with the X-Men instead of in the hands of enemies? Surely Forge could have built one.

I found myself liking this version of Nitro, he seemed to be a more tragic character and was more interesting than a crazed thug.

The animation was pretty good considering all the characters and it was good to see a team-centric episode again. A step up compared to 2 of the last 3 episodes.

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

I don't remember Rogue ever being in the Brotherhood in Evolution. I remember she was in like a recruiting war between the two and wasn't sold on the X-men at first when the Brotherhood tried to mischaracterize them and fool Rogue.

The thing is Dread, you are complaining about something that's true to Rogue's character. Where in the comics she was a part of the Brotherhood and left to the X-men.

What's different in this show is that Rogue's left the X-men and refused Wolverine's offer to return because of Wolverine. That's compelling to address a personal facet of Rogue in her emotional turmoil because of a particular person, and the Brotherhood were able to pick her up from there.

The other thing is, I don't see the point in going through a big explanation about Domino. The second episode implies that she's basically got the luck powers, but I see no reason to explain it. The episodes generally don't go out of their way to explain too many of the powers except where appropriate like the diamond form of Emma Frost.

There are definitely issues with the Cyclops character that could affect how hardcore fans feel about the show. I'm being open-minded about it now because I think the story is going in a particular direction, and really it's not an unrealistic portrayal of Scott's character and how he behaves from time to time.

 

[Hush]

I agree qith both assesments on Scott I just wish we could see more of him.

 

[Dread]

Spoiler

I don't remember Rogue ever being in the Brotherhood in Evolution. I remember she was in like a recruiting war between the two and wasn't sold on the X-men at first when the Brotherhood tried to mischaracterize them and fool Rogue.

The thing is Dread, you are complaining about something that's true to Rogue's character. Where in the comics she was a part of the Brotherhood and left to the X-men.

What's different in this show is that Rogue's left the X-men and refused Wolverine's offer to return because of Wolverine. That's compelling to address a personal facet of Rogue in her emotional turmoil because of a particular person, and the Brotherhood were able to pick her up from there.

The other thing is, I don't see the point in going through a big explanation about Domino. The second episode implies that she's basically got the luck powers, but I see no reason to explain it. The episodes generally don't go out of their way to explain too many of the powers except where appropriate like the diamond form of Emma Frost.

There are definitely issues with the Cyclops character that could affect how hardcore fans feel about the show. I'm being open-minded about it now because I think the story is going in a particular direction, and really it's not an unrealistic portrayal of Scott's character and how he behaves from time to time.

I am aware that Rogue went through similar issues in the comics. I was noting how it was hardly a unique storyline and one we saw a few years ago in EVOLUTION, although handled in a different, more "high school" way and many fans, not exactly me, hated the "high school" nature of the show. Rogue was recruited by the Brotherhood in Evolution; Mystique worked with her caretaker Irene Adler/Destiny to trick her into believing the X-Men were dangerous and out to hurt her. Over several episodes, though, she found out that Mystique's Brotherhood were often vicious thugs, and that Mystique would lie and manipulate her; also, Rogue was genuinely touched by Scott's attempts to befriend her, which developed into an outright crush. All that happened in Season 1-2. Frankly, while it is old news, I wish the show's writers didn't have to have Scott & Jean couple by default; he and Rogue had much more chemistry on that show. Rogue defaulted to Gambit as well, and all characters became less interesting to watch. I don't always embrace bold new ideas with comic cartoons, but in Evolution it really worked.

Of course, Evolution's strength and focus was on character development and relationships, not usually action sequences. There was a long Apocalypse arc, but it was disjointed until Seasons 3-4. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN is more action and storyline oriented; it has character development and moments, but not to the degree EVOLUTION did. The ideal of course is to be strong with both areas, but most shows typically are better at one or the other.

The issues between Rogue and Wolverine are new for a cartoon, but one could argue were front and center in the X-MEN films, where Rogue's mentor/crush on Logan was a major character subplot. He was the one who found her, protected her, even convinced her to stick with the X-Men. But he wasn't there for her all the time, and her budding relationship with Iceman forced her to make bold new choices (X3). In the comics, Rogue and Wolverine often had issues revolving trust; Rogue had to practically sacrifice her life during a Viper/Silver Samurai francas before Wolverine started giving her the time of day.

I wasn't saying the dynamic presented between the two in W&TXM is exactly bad, just a bit predictable. One thing to note in this episode is that Rogue, at least from her gestures, appeared as if she wanted some sort of reassurance from Wolverine this time, and he outright refused her, perhaps out of "You made your bed" logic. She was disappointed, or appeared so, that Logan didn't even give her a second look.

I did wonder why the X-Men didn't seek to capture or arrest the Brotherhood, instead leaving them to make more assaults. Maybe that's why the MRD hates them.

As for Domino, there is a big difference between specifically stating, "my power is luck which allows me to pull off combat stunts that for most are impossible" and just allowing Domino to appear as a typical combat type without an explanation so a fan who is not in the know may assume she has zero powers besides a strange appearance and combat training. A single line is really all that is needed. Other powers, like laser beams from the eyes, really don't need to be explained, especially from characters most average viewers already know. Domino is not one of them.

Note when Squidboy, an equally obscure X-character appeared, there was an effort to explain his power.

As for Cyclops, stiff is stiff, even if it matches some past comic depiction. There are ways to portray his pathos that are more interesting than what W&TXM has shown. Frankly at this point I say he is on the roster by obligation; Cyclops has been a part of every X-Men animated appearance and is a member most people know. Without him, the writers may have had to balance the roster out with some irrational pick like Colossus or something. That'd have been madness. MADNESS!

On this show, Cyclops is a tool. When he is not interested in Jean or Xavier, or someone isn't mentioning Jean or Xavier to motivate him into accompanying them on a mission, he has no character. Nothing. He doesn't even speak. He was motivated to shave outside of costume this week and I have no clue why. Scott wouldn't even shower if someone didn't mention that Xavier or Jean wanted him to at this rate. Some could say that there have been writers who wrote Cyclops as this stiff, but they were not the best writers, nor these the best and only takes on him. Batman used to be a hammy costumed cop in the 50's-60's, but does everyone want to see that depiction of him? Do they embrace or dismiss it as outdated when it appears in cartoons like THE BATMAN? How about Mr. Freeze? THE BATMAN you could argue returned him to his roots; omitting any of the character pathos inventd by Timm & Dini from the 1992 cartoon, they returned him to his original comic motive of simply being a jewel thief with a freeze gun (back when his name was Mr. Zero in the comics). He was a WORSE character for it. Not all comic depictions are created equal. Cyclops as shown in W&TXM is almost a stereotype of himself. There were better ways of portraying his character here than the ones the writers have chosen so far. Which is a shame as with the roles reversed, there was a lot of potential here. In practice, both Scott and Logan have become more boring due to it. Wolverine is more of a de-facto leader with a gruff demeanor, which has been a cartoon cliche since F'ing G.I. JOE, and Scott is just there in a corner. It has been a lose-lose situation and it didn't have to be.

At this stage, I will say that W&TXM's narrative and action is more in line with what most X-Men comic fans want. But there have been some sacrifices in terms of character development; it isn't altogether missing, and is there in spurts. But it isn't all that it could be. That's the crux of my criticism.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

can i get a link??? purtty please?

 

[usagicassidy]

As for Cyclops, stiff is stiff, even if it matches some past comic depiction. There are ways to portray his pathos that are more interesting than what W&TXM has shown. Frankly at this point I say he is on the roster by obligation; Cyclops has been a part of every X-Men animated appearance and is a member most people know. Without him, the writers may have had to balance the roster out with some irrational pick like Colossus or something. That'd have been madness. MADNESS!

And then you would've complained about Colossus being one-dimensional, just there for the strength, never said or did anything, etc.

 

[Hush]

Dread im with you 100% on your Cyke assesment.

 

[Dread]

And then you would've complained about Colossus being one-dimensional, just there for the strength, never said or did anything, etc.

My standards for Colossus at this stage in X-Men animated history are very, very low. If he showed up for fight sequences as reliably as Shadowcat and Iceman with the team, I would be satisfied. The fact that he is perennially excluded from any sort of regular team membership since the 90's is the major hassle for me. He had only 2 appearances in the 90's X-MEN series (in Seasons 1 & 2), but both at least were good episodes. Under the pens of Kyle & Johnson, Colossus did show up a record 7-8 times in X-MEN EVOLUTION (out of 52 episodes), but he did little of any consequence. I just consider him an X-Man as key to the long and wonderous history of the franchise as Storm or Nightcrawler are. Obviously, that is a minority opinion.

Iceman's character here hasn't been terribly fleshed; he's a young, energetic hero and nothing more. But he gets in some good sequences, is on the main roster and I enjoy him on the show. Not everyone needs a 7 episode arc to make it in my book.

When Blob was charging around, I kept thinking, "It would have been cool if the X-Men had someone with super-strength to trade blows with him." Oh, well.

Kyle & Johnson, on the other hand, HAVE proven capable of writing Cyclops much, much better than this. He was a vibrant, starring character in X-MEN EVOLUTION, written so well that it helped get me, a devoted Wolverine fanboy, to actually enjoy the character for the first time ever. I was ready for a role reversal, but I wasn't ready for Cyclops to either be a mute or a stereotype of himself. Maybe that's enough for the average fan here, who just wants action, a comic book story and an endless wave of guest appearances from obscure X-Men characters no one cares about. But every now and then I want some more characterization besides the brief snippets we often get from Emma or Beast or something.

Some may say, "Hey, Scott was equally stiff in the 90's X-Men show", and you'd be right. But that show didn't have over 15 years of hindsight, including 3 motion pictures. It had to present an iconic version since it was the first of it's kind. But the 90's are over and this is all supposed to be about building on past success.

Granted, I did like the episode. I thought the way Nitro was introduced was interesting and unexpected; creativity that was such a treat in Evolution and has been so lacking here sometimes. The stuff between him and Rogue was predictable but still entertaining. And I did like that it was a team episode, since we haven't seen other X-Men much in a few weeks. I'm just not about to worship the show, at least not yet. It's good, but not great, overall. The idea of, "a show needs a season to find it's feet" is a fine theory, which was blown out of the water by SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN that reminded many of us, "no, you can actually start out with top notch quality and maintain it for the first 13 episodes without one hiccup". That is what seperates the good from the great. Granted, comparing Kyle & Johnson to Greg "GARGOYLES" Wiesman is unfair, and I will admit Spider-Man is a different animal to tackle in a show (or comic) than the X-Men.

W&TXM so far is a solid B grade series. It's had some episodes that were B+ or even A- in quality but also a few C+ average fares. In theory there's no shame in that; a lot of shows on TV are C+ grades overall, and not everyone can be an A+ B:TAS show. It has shown potential, but has been slow to utilize it to the fullest with all the characters.

 

[XIceman]

Can I please get a link ?

 

[Dread]

Dread im with you 100% on your Cyke assesment.

Thanks.

 

[TNC9852002]

I'm one of those guys that don't look for or expect special treatment for his X-Men shows or expect greatness in every episode, so when I do see an episode that surprises me, I really hold a special place for it.

I'm really falling in love with this show and I don't care about what's not there or what should've been. I'm just hoping for more cool stories and cool characters that we haven't seen in animation before.

-TNC

 

[usagicassidy]

Dread, I do agree that it wouldn't hurt AT ALL to have Colossus be a fixed background team member. Unfortunately, he's not. Jean's my favorite character of all time, and I'm crushed she's not really in this - but at least she was a major characters on both series (though I didn't like her portrayal AT ALL in either).

BUT haha and I sound like a broken record here (although you always bring up Colossus so I feel justified) - how do you think Psylocke fans feel? WE'RE SO ENTIRELY JIPPED! I'd say that Colossus and Psylocke are the only major X-characters that haven't had a significant part in any of the 3 X-shows.

 

[Nature's Rising]

Loved this ep because it's all about teamwork. I love the Kitty and Storm scenes. I also love the rather short showdown with Emma and Psylocke, it was such a great scene.

8.5/10

The only gripe is still I can't picture Logan being the leader and Scott being instanly sidelined and acting like a diva. It's so weird.

Anyone notice that Storm didn't really talk this episode?

She did actually, in the scene where they were gathering at the Blackbird. She was at the back but she was the one asking a question.

And also, I never really expected Psylocke to be in Emma's level of telepathy. I always knew Emma was way more powerful just lagging behind Xavier. And Revanche was always a low-level telepath IIRC.

 

[Dread]

Dread, I do agree that it wouldn't hurt AT ALL to have Colossus be a fixed background team member. Unfortunately, he's not. Jean's my favorite character of all time, and I'm crushed she's not really in this - but at least she was a major characters on both series (though I didn't like her portrayal AT ALL in either).

BUT haha and I sound like a broken record here (although you always bring up Colossus so I feel justified) - how do you think Psylocke fans feel? WE'RE SO ENTIRELY JIPPED! I'd say that Colossus and Psylocke are the only major X-characters that haven't had a significant part in any of the 3 X-shows.

I do agree with that.

It is funny, of course, that Marvel's attempt to "revive" Psylocke for the 90's was to thrust her into a ****ty Asian body who were a costume that was like a spray on fetish suit. Sex sells.

But, yeah, Psylocke usually has been gypped, too. Colossus pre-dates her, though.