The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

[mara]

beautiful painting! I'd love a high res photo of it

Ditto! So pretty!

 

[Poni_Boy]

Wait, what makes you say that? The Disney merger occurred at the end of 2009, and right after TIH was released Marvel announced their slate and, other than the dates, the order of films all the way through to The Avengers was identical to how it's been.

I didn't say the merger was the cause for the shift change, but Disney did want them to push forward with IM2 for a summer 2010 release even though the crew needed more time. The Disney merger was in the works for a little over 5 years before it was finalized in 2009, it's not like they didn't have any say so until after pen hit paper.

Thor experienced two consecutive years worth of delays. When Vaughn was attached it was slated for 2010 release, then he left and the writer's strike was still ongoing. The release date stayed. When Branagh came on board at the end of 2008 that's when the release date shifted to 2011. Marvel had to fast track Iron Man 2 to fill the gab left my Thor in 2010. There were all decisions made prior to the merger becoming official but still being influenced by it. Savvy?

 

[Danalys]

I think that activity you saw at the end of Caps movie was because power was being actively syphoned from it until that point.

it's not being syphoned when skull finds it in norway, and it lights him up significantly.

 

[protocida]

Matthew Vaughn's Thor would've been something. Very heavy on norse mythology. But I know Thor and Loki not being able to fight ever wouldn't sit well with the fans.

I'm satisfied with Kenneth Branagah's Thor.

 

[Crimson King]

re: Vibranium in IM2

I don't think what Tony made is Vibranium, and I'm surprised to hear that others assume it is. To make Vibranium synthetic pretty much robs Wakanda of everything that makes it special. MS wouldn't do that, not with a Blank Panther movie planned.

My money is on an entirely new element, but if I had to choose one of the two prevailing theories, I'd say it's tied in to the Tesseract. Wasn't it originally made by AIM in the comics? Perhaps when Howard was studying the Cube in the 40s he realized that there was a structure to its elements but he couldn't synthesize it with the equipment available in that era. So he did the next best thing, which was to create the arc reactor as a mini version of the power source.

EDIT: the Tesseract theory is also supported by a drawing of the Cube in his notes that he leaves Tony. Why would that be in such close proximity to his arc reactor notes if they weren't related?

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Matthew Vaughn's Thor would've been something. Very heavy on norse mythology. But I know Thor and Loki not being able to fight ever wouldn't sit well with the fans.

I'm satisfied with Kenneth Branagah's Thor.

I think that's a perfect way to describe my feeling's on Branagh's film.

With Vaughn, I probably woulda been blown away.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Matthew Vaughn's Thor would've been something. Very heavy on norse mythology. But I know Thor and Loki not being able to fight ever wouldn't sit well with the fans.

I'm satisfied with Kenneth Branagah's Thor.

I loved the first half of the script he was going to shoot from. It was very 'Ages of Thunder' with a heavy LOTR vibe. That being said, it wouldn't have tied well into the MCU

 

[protocida]

^ Yup. It's all-out magic, not science-so-advanced-it-looks-like-magic. But the characters were very enjoyable, and some of the concepts were really cool, like Loki being the son of Ymir, and the race for Thor's hammer.

 

[Poni_Boy]

^ Yup. It's all-out magic, not science-so-advanced-it-looks-like-magic. But the characters were very enjoyable, and some of the concepts were really cool, like Loki being the son of Ymir, and the race for Thor's hammer.

If/when they do re-boot the MCU down the road I would love for them to go that approach. I think it would be worth the coin to get it made especially if you're not worried about tying it into a larger franchise.

Oh, the Frost Giants actually being giants? Yes please.

 

[Splat]

The latest fan edit of all 5 films is up download. I can't download it right now, my hard drive is full.

 

[captainrogers]

damn now it's all difficult to quote things. i'll just say thanks for the interesting details captainrogers.

no prob!

 

[MedinasWorks]

The latest fan edit of all 5 films is up download. I can't download it right now, my hard drive is full.

¿Where to download it?

 

[MrGreen]

The latest fan edit of all 5 films is up download. I can't download it right now, my hard drive is full.

Link?

 

[Raiden]

If/when they do re-boot the MCU down the road I would love for them to go that approach. I think it would be worth the coin to get it made especially if you're not worried about tying it into a larger franchise.

Oh, the Frost Giants actually being giants? Yes please.

With Hemsworth still so young and the fact that they're probably going to make Thor into a trilogy, I think a reboot of Thor is going to be very far down the road. With that said, though, I'd love to see an Age of Thunder kind of film for Thor. As for Vaughn vs Branagh, I think Branagh did an excellent job but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see what Vaughn would've done if he had made Thor, after the incredible job he did with Kickass and First Class.

 

[samsnee]

If/when they do re-boot the MCU down the road I would love for them to go that approach. I think it would be worth the coin to get it made especially if you're not worried about tying it into a larger franchise.

Oh, the Frost Giants actually being giants? Yes please.

Where can I read the script for Vaughn's version?

 

[kedrell]

I don't see any clear cut indication that Vaughn's Thor would have blown me away. First Class sure as hell didn't(it came in dead last of the 3 Marvel films last year). However, I was on the whole satisfied with it.

 

[Poni_Boy]

With Hemsworth still so young and the fact that they're probably going to make Thor into a trilogy, I think a reboot of Thor is going to be very far down the road. With that said, though, I'd love to see an Age of Thunder kind of film for Thor. As for Vaughn vs Branagh, I think Branagh did an excellent job but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see what Vaughn would've done if he had made Thor, after the incredible job he did with Kickass and First Class.

Yeah that's why earlier I said in 10 years or so, but even that is soon. And out of the whole Avengers lot I see Hemsworth becoming the biggest star.

Imagine an Ages of Thunder film with Peter Jackson at the helm

I don't see any clear cut indication that Vaughn's Thor would have blown me away. First Class sure as hell didn't(it came in dead last of the 3 Marvel films last year). However, I was on the whole satisfied with it.

I don't think it would have blown me away, my interest is just piqued since that was the film he really wanted to do. Personally I would like to see Vaughn do a Iron Fist

 

[Xeno]

I don't see any clear cut indication that Vaughn's Thor would have blown me away. First Class sure as hell didn't(it came in dead last of the 3 Marvel films last year). However, I was on the whole satisfied with it.

Count me as someone not impressed with X:FC, either. X2, with all its flaws, was a far better film.

 

[wobbly]

re: Vibranium in IM2

I don't think what Tony made is Vibranium, and I'm surprised to hear that others assume it is. To make Vibranium synthetic pretty much robs Wakanda of everything that makes it special. MS wouldn't do that, not with a Blank Panther movie planned.

My money is on an entirely new element, but if I had to choose one of the two prevailing theories, I'd say it's tied in to the Tesseract. Wasn't it originally made by AIM in the comics? Perhaps when Howard was studying the Cube in the 40s he realized that there was a structure to its elements but he couldn't synthesize it with the equipment available in that era. So he did the next best thing, which was to create the arc reactor as a mini version of the power source.

EDIT: the Tesseract theory is also supported by a drawing of the Cube in his notes that he leaves Tony. Why would that be in such close proximity to his arc reactor notes if they weren't related?

I'm in agreement with you here. I think Howard's arc reactor (that Tony developed fully) was inspired by what he learned about the Cube. Howard's arc designs were a means to reproduce some of it's energy output, but nothing like on the scale the real cube can. This can also explain the similarity in sound the Skulls weapons had to Tony's repulsors (which Tony developed before making the new element): they both use the same basic ideas for the energy source that powers them.

What Tony developed in IM2 is a step closer to the cube. The new element perhaps being closer (maybe even the same) as to what the cube is actually made of. If so Tony's new Arc reactor still isn't nearly as powerful as the physical arrangement of a tesseract is actually impossible to manufacture (Howard's note-book has a drawing for the theoretical true dimensions of a tesseract and that cannot exist in our own 3 dimensional space). It seems likely that impossible arrangement is the key for making the cube truly unlimited in power.

I put the 'new' in bold there as this is lost a little on the Vibranium supporters: Vibranium is not a new element in the MCU, it has been known about since the 1940's at least.

As for why the cube is apparently depleted/inactive...Well, the Skull did open up a wormhole with his last act on wielding it. Not a huge leap to beleive that act caused some kind of failsafe within the cube to effectively shut it down. Loki however has the know how to get it going again.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I'm in agreement with you here. I think Howard's arc reactor (that Tony developed fully) was inspired by what he learned about the Cube. Howard's arc designs were a means to reproduce some of it's energy output, but nothing like on the scale the real cube can. This can also explain the similarity in sound the Skulls weapons had to Tony's repulsors (which Tony developed before making the new element): they both use the same basic ideas for the energy source that powers them.

What Tony developed in IM2 is a step closer to the cube. The new element perhaps being closer (maybe even the same) as to what the cube is actually made of. If so Tony's new Arc reactor still isn't nearly as powerful as the physical arrangement of a tesseract is actually impossible to manufacture (Howard's note-book has a drawing for the theoretical true dimensions of a tesseract and that cannot exist in our own 3 dimensional space). It seems likely that impossible arrangement is the key for making the cube truly unlimited in power.

I put the 'new' in bold there as this is lost a little on the Vibranium supporters: Vibranium is not a new element in the MCU, it has been known about since the 1940's at least.

As for why the cube is apparently depleted/inactive...Well, the Skull did open up a wormhole with his last act on wielding it. Not a huge leap to beleive that act caused some kind of failsafe within the cube to effectively shut it down. Loki however has the know how to get it going again.

I see that point and can understand the reasoning behind it, but at the same time I see this:

- Stark Sr only had a small amount of real Vibranium that he (for some ridiculous reason) turned into a shield and (for another ridiculous reason) kept on the floor of his work station.

- When Cap disappeared his Vibranium shield was lost with him

- Stark could no longer do tests on the Vibranium, and his focus soon shifted to testing the cube

- Stark Jr has Stark Sr.'s designs and designs for both the Vibranium shield (that he was attempting to modify in IM1 but without Vibranium), and the arc reactor (that he used to create a full sized one prior to IM1 -- then a miniature one in IM1)

- Stark Jr received Stark Sr's research on the Tesseract in IM2 but discarded it to focus on Stark Sr's plans for a "new element"

- There's no hint that the arc reactor is based on the Tesseract design or power source as Tony didn't use it for his "new element"

- There's no explanation for where Stark Sr's "new element" idea came from.

- natural Vibranium is not new to the MCU, but synthetic Vibranium would be if it were created (because synthetic elements are NOT natural elements at a chemical level)

- Stark Jr used Palladium (a metal) to power his first chest reactor. He created a new element that is also metal to power his later reactor

- The Tesseract does not appear to be metallic. Though it could be, no explanation was given

That's why my hypothesis is that the new metal element Stark creates is synthetic Vibranium (hence the overwhelming vibration sound added to the creation scene in IM2) which would be a newly introduce element in the MCU.

Another thing to consider (pure unadulterated speculation), what if the Tesseract and Vibranium go hand in hand? The Vibranium on Earth came from a meteor that landed in Wakanda and it is used to create weapons, etc by the Wakandan government. So who's to say that the two don't work in a symbiotic relationship? The Tesseract is pure power while Vibranium is supposed to be used to harness/channel it?

 

[protocida]

Here's Mark Protosevich's Script for Thor, that'd be directed by Matthew Vaughn.

Thor, Loki, Balder, Volstagg, Fandral and Hogun are sent by Odin to Svartalfheim to meet with Ivaldi, king of the Gnome blacksmiths, and buy weapons from him to be used in Asgard's ongoing war against the Frost Giants of Jotunheim. The group is attacked by Frost Giants, led by siblings Thrym and Ram, but Thor fights them off and saves Ivaldi's life. Ivaldi decides to thank Thor by forging a new weapon of him, a hammer made of the metal Uru, able to control thunder and storm, called Mjolnir. During the battle, Loki discovers that he's a descendant from the Frost Giants when Ram touches him, causing a symbol called ''The Mark of Ymir'' to appear in Loki's chest.

The six return to Asgard, where Loki asks a sorceress called Karnilla to show him the past. He discovers that his father, King Ymir, was ambushed and slayed by Odin, who wanted the weapon Ivaldi had forged for Ymir, the spear Gaugnir, so he could pass on to Thor, expanding the territory that Thor would rule. Odin was supposed to kill Loki, but couldn't bring himself to do it and instead adopted him. Loki also discovers that the Norms, the three sisters that control fate and are able to foresee the future, have told Odin that he will be betrayed by one of his sons, but he doesn't know which. Loki decides to use this to his advantage.

Loki manipulates Thor into believing that Balder is plotting to steal the throne from him, and tricks Balder's family into believing Thor is plotting to take Balder's life because he is Odin's best friend and a suitor for the throne. Then, at the day of Mjolnir's arrival, Thor is overwhelmed by its power and kills Balder in a fit of rage. Odin is led to believe that Thor is the one that'll betray him and banishes him to Midgard. Ivaldi, however, still believes in Thor, and casts a spell that makes whoever wields Mjolnir, if he is worthy, able to possess Thor's power. He then masks the hammer as a stick and sends it to Midgard.

In Midgard, Thor is captured and taken to a Viking village, where he becomes a slave of the village's ruler, Bjarne. However, after protecting it from bersekers led by a Viking named Gunnar, Thor becomes a warrior, led by Bjarne's right-hand man Steinar. He also befriends a family formed by Elric, his wife Sigrid and their children, Snorri and Leila.

Loki unleashes a plague on Midgard, caused by a sea monster, hoping to kill Thor, but it instead infects Elric's family. Because of this, Loki and Karnilla then awaken Malekith, the Dark Elf, and his army, and tell them to destroy Thor in exchange of the throne of the kingdom of Malekith's sister, the fae queen Una. Ivaldi learns of this and informs Bjarne of Mjolnir. Thor, Elric, Bjarne, Steinar, Gunnar and another Viking, Rorik, all try to get it. Meanwhile, Sif, Thor's friend and daughter of Asgard's gatekeeper Heimdall, discovers of Loki's deception and comes to Earth with the Warriors Three in search of Thor.

Odin tells Loki that he must enter Odinsleep and asks him to look over his body. Loki agrees, but betrays Odin and declares him dead, locking up his adoptive mother Frigga. He then takes his father's place as Jotunheim's ruler, alongside Thrym and Ram, Ymir's other children, and tells them to attack Asgard while the Aesir are distracted by Odin's "death".

On Midgard, Sif and the Warriors Three find Thor and Elric and help them fight off pirates who have killed Rorik. Elric, however, betrays them, believing that, if Thor becomes a God again, he won't help Elric's family, and continues alone. Meanwhile, Malekith kills Gunnar's men and Steinar. They continue making their way to the mountain where the Mjolnir is hidden, fighting several obstacles along the way, until there's only Thor, Elric, Gunnar and Bjarne.

They meet at the mountain, where Thor and Elric make amends and Elric fights Bjarne and Gunnar while Thor, Sif and the Warriors Three are attacked by Malekith. Thor wants Elric to get Mjolnir, but Elric dies saving Thor from Malekith, who also kills Gunnar. Thor then lifts the hammer, and, humbled by Elric's sacrifice, regains his power and destroys Malekith in battle. With his death, the rest of his soldiers are also destroyed. He saves Bjarne, who had been thrown off a cliff by Malekith, and heals his wounds, then orders Sif and the Warriors Three to return to Asgard and makes his way to the village, where he slays the monster who is causing the plague that is killing many of the humans. After ensuring Elric's family's survival, Thor makes his way to Asgard as well.

In Asgard, Loki reveals that he is Ymir's son as the Frost Giants attack. A battle ensues. Meanwhile, Heimdall breaks out of prison, where he had been placed for allowing Sif and the Warriors Three to leave Asgard without Odin's consent, and releases Frigga. They confront Loki and Karnilla, just as Thor, Sif and the Warriors Three arrive, aided by Ivaldi and the Gnomes and Elric, who has ascended into Vahalla for his sacrifice. At the same time, the Norms awake Odin before the burning longship where Loki has placed him falls apart. He breaks free and makes his way back to Asgard as the battle wages on.

Frigga defeats Karnilla in a duel of Magik. Sif and the Warriors Three take down Ram, much to Thrym's anger. Thor confronts Loki, but they cannot fight due to an ancient spell Frigga cast on them when they were infants. Odin appears and asks Loki for forgiveness, saying that he can slay him and leave Asgard alone. Loki refuses to forgive, so Thor challenges his champion, Thrym, to a battle without weapons for the fate of both worlds. Loki accepts.

Thor and Thrym fight. Thor wins. The Frost Giants relent and return to Jotunheim. Loki and Karnilla teleport away before Thor can stop them. Asgard has prevailed. Thor and Sif kiss. Odin becomes king again. Elric watches over his family from Vahalla, and sees that Bjarne has repetented for his past tiranny and became a fair leader who takes care of Sigrid, Snorri and Leila. Thor is hauled by Odin as a champion of both worlds, Asgard and Midgard. All is well.

Meanwhile, in Midgard, Loki and Karnilla take shelter in a cave, hidden from Odin. Loki starts to plot his revenge, while Karnilla reveals herself to be pregnant with Loki's child, Fenris.

 

[mara]

The tesseract-new element link: Stark's new element is the/a secret to unlocking the tesseract. So it is important. I refer you to Fury's Big Week #7 as evidence. How the reactor works and all, and how that'll happen, what you guys said. lol

 

[mara]

Here's Mark Protosevich's Script for Thor, that'd be directed by Matthew Vaughn.

Wow! There was a whole lot more of the mythology in that script!

 

[Gamma Burst]

Yeah that's why earlier I said in 10 years or so, but even that is soon. And out of the whole Avengers lot I see Hemsworth becoming the biggest star.

Imagine an Ages of Thunder film with Peter Jackson at the helm

That could be great.

 

[Poni_Boy]

The tesseract-new element link: Stark's new element is the/a secret to unlocking the tesseract. So it is important. I refer you to Fury's Big Week #7 as evidence. How the reactor works and all, and how that'll happen, what you guys said. lol

So, if the new element is created correctly, it would be the key to unlocking the power of the Tesseract. Is that right?

If so, then the new element is a conduit to the Tesseract and not a model/recreation of the power of it.