The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

[protocida]

So I'm hearing an Avenger dies in the movie, and even that it's [BLACKOUT]Black Widow.[/BLACKOUT].

Any truth to that?

 

[mara]

So, if the new element is created correctly, it would be the key to unlocking the power of the Tesseract. Is that right?

If so, then the new element is a conduit to the Tesseract and not a model/recreation of the power of it.

Correct.

 

[steintym]

That would have been an interesting take on Thor. I would have been note rested in seeming some of that.

Although, I was very pleased with the Thor we got and I think it fits in great with the Marvel universe they are creating with these films.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Correct.

Ok, good, I'm following. So, how does that rule out Vibranium?

 

[TheVileOne]

Spoiler

Who knows? It's possible but I doubt it because she was on set when they filmed the ending. But then production images had Jean Grey in the White House on the ending of the X-Men and she also didn't die in the comic and book versions.

 

[Xeno]

So I'm hearing an Avenger dies in the movie, and even that it's [BLACKOUT]Black Widow.[/BLACKOUT].

Any truth to that?

You're hearing this where?

 

[steintym]

So I'm hearing an Avenger dies in the movie, and even that it's [BLACKOUT]Black Widow.[/BLACKOUT].

Any truth to that?

Have not heard that ... Interesting

 

[Poni_Boy]

So I'm hearing an Avenger dies in the movie, and even that it's [BLACKOUT]Black Widow.[/BLACKOUT].

Any truth to that?

[BLACKOUT]Not that I've heard or witnessed myself. They filmed three endings, I saw two and she was alive in both. But you never know with Whedon.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[protocida]

I've seen it in some sites. Didn't really believed it, but might as well ask.

 

[flickchick85]

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[Hoblin]

re: Vibranium in IM2

I don't think what Tony made is Vibranium, and I'm surprised to hear that others assume it is. To make Vibranium synthetic pretty much robs Wakanda of everything that makes it special. MS wouldn't do that, not with a Blank Panther movie planned.

My money is on an entirely new element, but if I had to choose one of the two prevailing theories, I'd say it's tied in to the Tesseract. Wasn't it originally made by AIM in the comics? Perhaps when Howard was studying the Cube in the 40s he realized that there was a structure to its elements but he couldn't synthesize it with the equipment available in that era. So he did the next best thing, which was to create the arc reactor as a mini version of the power source.

EDIT: the Tesseract theory is also supported by a drawing of the Cube in his notes that he leaves Tony. Why would that be in such close proximity to his arc reactor notes if they weren't related?

Agreed with this. I don't really think it was vibranium that Stark created, largely for these same reasons. I mean, it COULD be, but until it's stated one way or the other, I'll believe that it wasn't.

And this may be a really nerdy reason to think it wasn't vibranium... but... I always pictured vibranium as an alloy instead of an element. If it's just an element then it would be easy to produce. And whatever Stark created in his home was definitely easy to produce. Kinda takes the mystique away from it.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I've seen it in some sites. Didn't really believed it, but might as well ask.

The problem is that right now we're in the dead zone. Hardly any promotional items come our for the summer movies until mid April so people are DYING for site hits and attention. Hence all the "Nolan bringing TDKR to Comic Con "The Wolverine is starting production this month" etc. This is the worst time of year for rumors.

 

[Shadowlord X]

Count me as someone not impressed with X:FC, either. X2, with all its flaws, was a far better film.

Glad to see X2 still gets the love it deserves; my fav CBM to this day, and still has the best action sequence in a CBM (NIGHTCRAWLER going through the White House).

I thoroughly enjoyed XM:FC, especially as a MAGNETO fan, but X2 all the way!

 

[Poni_Boy]

And this may be a really nerdy reason to think it wasn't vibranium... but... I always pictured vibranium as an alloy instead of an element. If it's just an element then it would be easy to produce. And whatever Stark created in his home was definitely easy to produce. Kinda takes the mystique away from it.

Only problem with that is that an alloy is the combination of two or more elements. Vibranium is a single element. That's what made Cap's shield so unique, the combination of Adamantium and Vibranium into a special alloy.

Also, creating a new element is not easy or we'd have hundreds upon thousands of them. Most elements were discovered naturally (like Vibranium in the MU), to synthesizeone is near improbable. Personally I think they over simplified the creation of it in IM2

 

[wobbly]

I see that point and can understand the reasoning behind it, but at the same time I see this:

- Stark Sr only had a small amount of real Vibranium that he (for some ridiculous reason) turned into a shield and (for another ridiculous reason) kept on the floor of his work station.

- When Cap disappeared his Vibranium shield was lost with him

- Stark could no longer do tests on the Vibranium, and his focus soon shifted to testing the cube

- Stark Jr has Stark Sr.'s designs and designs for both the Vibranium shield (that he was attempting to modify in IM1 but without Vibranium), and the arc reactor (that he used to create a full sized one prior to IM1 -- then a miniature one in IM1)

Stark Junior had what looked a mechanical attempt to reproduce Cap's sheild (that shield was layered with mesh and stuff, caps shield is solid metal) I don't recall seeing anything with a design to a solid metal vibranium shield?

- Stark Jr received Stark Sr's research on the Tesseract in IM2 but discarded it to focus on Stark Sr's plans for a "new element"

How do we know the one was not inspired by the other? They were both shown to be in Howard's books.

- There's no hint that the arc reactor is based on the Tesseract design or power source as Tony didn't use it for his "new element"

The hints came in Captain America. Howard was playing with a shard taken from a Skull weapon and we see him find the Cube at the bottom of the sea.
Seriously, he has years to examine an object of great power, then years later designs a reactor capable of producing great power. You cannot see a possible link there?

- There's no explanation for where Stark Sr's "new element" idea came from.

What I said above. I don't think it's a huge leap for Howard to have figured out what the cube was made of, he knew that alone would be capable of producing something with power closer to the cube, but he had no way to reproduce it.

- natural Vibranium is not new to the MCU, but synthetic Vibranium would be if it were created (because synthetic elements are NOT natural elements at a chemical level)

True.

- Stark Jr used Palladium (a metal) to power his first chest reactor. He created a new element that is also metal to power his later reactor

We don't actually know that it is a metal. The triangle looked like metal before Tony hit it with the particle accelerator but afterwards what we saw glowed white unlike any metal I've ever seen.

- The Tesseract does not appear to be metallic. Though it could be, no explanation was given

Going back to what I said just before the cube's appearance is not that far removed from what Tony created (or the shard Howard was playing with). Tony's new element remains undefined at this time as to just what it really is. Personally, given what it looked like and what it does, I'd think it safe to assume whatever he did took it beyond being labelled simply as a metal.

That's why my hypothesis is that the new metal element Stark creates is synthetic Vibranium (hence the overwhelming vibration sound added to the creation scene in IM2) which would be a newly introduce element in the MCU.

Another thing to consider (pure unadulterated speculation), what if the Tesseract and Vibranium go hand in hand? The Vibranium on Earth came from a meteor that landed in Wakanda and it is used to create weapons, etc by the Wakandan government. So who's to say that the two don't work in a symbiotic relationship? The Tesseract is pure power while Vibranium is supposed to be used to harness/channel it?

Possible. A this time your guess is certainly as good as mine.

 

[Danalys]

considering it takes nuclear fusion to make elements i wouldn't call it easy.

 

[Danalys]

considering it takes nuclear fusion to make elements i wouldn't call it easy.

 

[Shadowlord X]

Yeah that's why earlier I said in 10 years or so, but even that is soon. And out of the whole Avengers lot I see Hemsworth becoming the biggest star.

Imagine an Ages of Thunder film with Peter Jackson at the helm



I don't think it would have blown me away, my interest is just piqued since that was the film he really wanted to do. Personally I would like to see Vaughn do a Iron Fist

Got to agree with the first (bolded) statement. This year could be HUGE for this guy with 2 major summer movies and a couple other films. A steadily growing female fanbase helps. It bodes very well for the success of THOR 2 next year.


Interested in the second (bolded) statement; can you elaborate on why?

 

[steintym]

Crap, I have got to watch Captain America again (which I've been meaning to). I'm having a hard time remembering any of these cube references. Damn, gettin too old ...

 

[Poni_Boy]

Stark Junior had what looked a mechanical attempt to reproduce Cap's sheild (that shield was layered with mesh and stuff, caps shield is solid metal) I don't recall seeing anything with a design to a solid metal vibranium shield?

I specifically said that he had what appeared to be the designs for Cap's shield but NOT the Vibranium. Tony being Tony, why would he just stamp steel into a disc? He wouldn't, it's not his m.o.

How do we know the one was not inspired by the other? They were both shown to be in Howard's books.

We don't. But Stark tossed the book on the ground and we never saw him go back to it. His "Eureka!" moment was seeing the Stark Expo diagram.

The hints came in Captain America. Howard was playing with a shard taken from a Skull weapon and we see him find the Cube at the bottom of the sea.
Seriously, he has years to examine an object of great power, then years later designs a reactor capable of producing great power. You cannot see a possible link there?

I didn't see it, they didn't tell me it happened, so I won't account it as evidence. If I do then I could guess a million different scenarios. I'm only using what we were directly given.

What I said above. I don't think it's a huge leap for Howard to have figured out what the cube was made of, he knew that alone would be capable of producing something with power closer to the cube, but he had no way to reproduce it.

I'm not trying for leaps of faith, though, I'm basing a hypothesis on only what we are shown.

We don't actually know that it is a metal. The triangle looked like metal before Tony hit it with the particle accelerator but afterwards what we saw glowed white unlike any metal I've ever seen.

Neither do we know that it isn't. But Palladium is a metal and Stark needed to replace it with another hyper conductive element.

Going back to what I said just before the cube's appearance is not that far removed from what Tony created (or the shard Howard was playing with). Tony's new element remains undefined at this time as to just what it really is. Personally, given what it looked like and what it does, I'd think it safe to assume whatever he did took it beyond being labelled simply as a metal.

Tomato, tomato, it looked like a metal to me. Metals are just elements anyway.

Possible. A this time your guess is certainly as good as mine.

Ed Zackery

 

[Poni_Boy]

considering it takes nuclear fusion to make elements i wouldn't call it easy.

Bingo. They just did a poor job of showing that in IM2 IMO

 

[protocida]

The three endings interest me. I wonder if they're all in the same vein as the Central Park one (Everyone parts ways on good terms, with the possibility of them being reunited in the future again) or if there's differences in tones between the three ideas.

 

[mara]

Ok, good, I'm following. So, how does that rule out Vibranium?

It really doesn't. We actually have no idea what exactly that new element is, we are only getting clues as to its importance. However, there is a synthetic version in the Marvel universe, this could have been changed for MCU purposes ie; Stark created it. Also I'm thinking that since the tesseract is a mystical object, it may take something mystical to access it, such something from outer space....perhaps with properties yet to be revealed etc. So a synthetic version could do it too....don''t know if this makes sense. lol

 

[Poni_Boy]

Interested in the second (bolded) statement; can you elaborate on why?

The grittiness of Layer Cake + crazy cinematography of Kick Ass + pensive tension of X:FC and I think that's a sound foundation for Iron Fist. The other other thing you need is a marketable headliner with martial arts proficiency.

 

[Poni_Boy]

It really doesn't. We actually have no idea what exactly that new element is, we are only getting clues as to its importance. However, there is a synthetic version in the Marvel universe, this could have been changed for MCU purposes ie; Stark created it. Also I'm thinking that since the tesseract is a mystical object, it may take something mystical to access it, such something from outer space....perhaps with properties yet to be revealed etc. So a synthetic version could do it too....don''t know if this makes sense. lol

...you mean something an advanced alien race would have at it's disposal?