The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Gee]

I'll miss his artwork.

 

[Mani-Man]

Really interesting how you all handle reading Comics, really lovely to see how people make time to enjoy Comic books.

Too sad about Leon, liked his work and people always said he was a Joy to work with.
Im having Batman: Creature of the Night lying around somewhere, it was Visually such a fantastic read, he knew how to use shadows and all.

Onto something hopefully more uplifting and happy, Comics week.

This Week wasnt as beefy as others, which my wallet appreciates.

Batman 108
Wow, i was unsure about the Miracle Molly character, but i can say i really enjoy her so far.
Tynion so far managed to make me like all his OCs, that is not coming easy...im looking at you Scott Snyder. XD
Also i just love what they do with Scarecrow so far.
Him standing on top of the Roof in plain sight at day, just watching Simon Saint and all...really cool.
But the art in General, i think i gushed already over Jorge Jiménez art...so that is not new.
I could tell you that Jorge is also a Handsome bastard himself, that some might not know already. XD
Anway, i liked hat Tynion had the whole "Criminals are cowardly..." line in, nice memento to old times.
Also i like that we have the tables turned somewhat with Batman being the one who doesnt have the most advanced technic anymore.
It is a great arc so far.

Crime Syndicate was nice but not enough to keep me going probably.
I dont know, its nothing that really keeps you interested for long and im not that into the characters.

Suicide Squad is okay, but the fact that they crossover with Teen Titans Academy after just 3 issues, bothers me a bit.
But im liking the current Team.
Is it just me or have they designed Peacemaker to Resemble John Cena extra close?
Or does cena happen to look a lot like him? I dont remember the last time i saw Peacemaker before SS was annouced so i cant remember at the moment how he looked.
But the comic had a few really cool looking Panels with Peacemaker, so despite the costume looking rather silly, you can make him look very cool.

Swamp Thing
Liking the first 3 issues so far, especially visually.
Always have a soft spot for Swamp Thing on that because i feel like the comics always have this nice visuals that fit together so well and flow nicely.
The story has me interested too so i keep reading it.

4 comics, 2 i would consider good and the other 2 "just" okay...so its not a good or bad week.
Next week will be rather busy again, to which i probably add Future State Gotham because the cover with Red Hood looks cool.

 

[Babillygunn]

I’m a handful of stories into Festival of Heroes and it is so wonderful this far.

 

[gohei_]

I’m a handful of stories into Festival of Heroes and it is so wonderful this far.

I've only read the first story so far but I Really liked it. Cass is a Great character and this story was also beautifully drawn.

 

[Mani-Man]

Exciting week of DC Comics, especially because of Festival of Heroes imo.

Batman Detective really picks up now, like the setting and writing and especially the art.
Cool seeing Ducard again and the plot is really enjoyable so far.
Had to laugh at a specific Panel with Bruce and Ducard talking, because of the way Bruce was standing.
He was standing there as if he was puffing his chest out extremely...that looked funny as hell. XD

Batman Urban Legends is expensive for the fact that im only interested in the Red hood story, which is really really good.
The rest are okay but i only really like one Story and for that, the thing is super expensive.
Wasnt Leslie dead not too long ago? Or do i get this mixed up with someone else?
I was sure Leslie was dead in Rebirth.

Then the Highlight, Festival of Heroes...and boy do i love it.
All those characters and storys, well written and drawn, you can feel the love everyone poured into it.
Shows you that WB wouldnt need to race swap characters(not that im against it in general, Matt Reeves batman shows that its a good idea), they could easily use the many diverse characters they have...they are awesome.
Minor complain is that i would look for a new name for Kenan, "new Superman" is a strange name to me.
And Boy is the Monkey Prince fun...love it.
I cant say enough good about this, so much fun and heart...ah, i want more.

Future State Gotham was irritating at first with the Black and White...didnt expect that.
But so far seems like a cool story, i will keep at it.
Loving the Red Hood stuff we get recently, that can continue if you ask me.

Justice League Last Ride starts out strong, except for the way Bruce is written.
Im not a fan anymore of this kind of Batman that is stubborn as hell and all that...at least when it comes to Justice League titles.
Its a Batman from long ago that i dont find particular endearing anymore.
Funny enough, at times the story felt like a older Justice League story both in visuals and the way it was written.
Which was cool and gave me a feeling of nostalgia.
Looking forward to where this goes.

Superman...its a neat arc but im not feeling it.
I wait this arc but then i will probably stop with Superman for a while, especially since Teenage Jon will take over soon.
And yes, i still dont like Teen Jon...sorry.

The Joker...damn that Killing Joke "flashback", visual so incredible.
Gullem March drew Joker in one Panel 3 times that showed every time another part of him.
The sinister, the Deranged and the Diabolical.
I dont know if that was the idea, but noticed that looking at that one panel.
The story itself is so crazy but entertaining as hell...i really didnt expect that at all.

Wonder Woman keeps being a interesting story and visually neat...no problem there.

A busy but entertaining Week.
Cant wait for next Week, Nightwing and Finally Wonder Girl.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I havent enjoyed a WW story this much since Rucka came back for Rebirth. I am really loving this new team. I just hope that we dont fall backwards as we usually do for WW. "reboot" starts off strong and then creative team leaves and a bunch of low-mediocre teams come in ruining all of the build up.

 

[Mani-Man]

So, a new week and a new comic week in that

And we start with Justice league or Bendis league.
He cant help himself, he must write how he would speak.
It was annoying during his Superman run and it still is here.
He is unable to give characters a distinctive voice, instead they sound like Bendis imagines himself saying the lines.
Really sad since the potential is there, but it gets hurt so damn much by the way he has people talk.
Also...can we maybe not have Superman be constantly getting his ass kicked?
Anyway, the art is good and the idea of the arc is pretty neat.

But we looked forward to this Week for one thing and one thing only...NIghtwing.
And boy is that fantastic again.
The writing, the fantastic art style that gives you such a good pacing and movement, is places so well.
The Characters and how they are written, their interaction...oh man how i missed the interaction of the batfamily.
The series so far is absolutly great...one of the best in Infinite Frontier so far.

But lets not forget Wonder Girl too.
I see a bright future for Yara, really liking this.
Also neat seeing Nubia back again.
Loving the Art, the writing...the whole vibe of it has me really interested.

A bit sad that Justice League took such a hit in quality, but other than that, im happy with this week.
Next Week will be again a busy one...and an expensive one.

 

[Babillygunn]

So, a new week and a new comic week in that

And we start with Justice league or Bendis league.
He cant help himself, he must write how he would speak.
It was annoying during his Superman run and it still is here.
He is unable to give characters a distinctive voice, instead they sound like Bendis imagines himself saying the lines.
Really sad since the potential is there, but it gets hurt so damn much by the way he has people talk.
Also...can we maybe not have Superman be constantly getting his ass kicked?
Anyway, the art is good and the idea of the arc is pretty neat.

But we looked forward to this Week for one thing and one thing only...NIghtwing.
And boy is that fantastic again.
The writing, the fantastic art style that gives you such a good pacing and movement, is places so well.
The Characters and how they are written, their interaction...oh man how i missed the interaction of the batfamily.
The series so far is absolutly great...one of the best in Infinite Frontier so far.

But lets not forget Wonder Girl too.
I see a bright future for Yara, really liking this.
Also neat seeing Nubia back again.
Loving the Art, the writing...the whole vibe of it has me really interested.

A bit sad that Justice League took such a hit in quality, but other than that, im happy with this week.
Next Week will be again a busy one...and an expensive one.

Nightwing was excellent this week. It has been a gem. But the one that really stole the show was the Flash. And I’m super excited about the next issue.

 

[Mani-Man]

The New comics arrived...huzzah. XD

Action Comics was rather neat i have to say and i liked that they slowly try to flesh out Jon.
But they should hurry it a bit up when they want him to take over Superman soon.
Because he still is rather empty at the moment.
Still, the current arc is neat and im always down for a Mongul story.

Batman Black and White is a hit and miss from story to story.
Some mainly due to the art because you have to be careful not to make the art the eyesore.
So some storys in there work, others dont.
Liked the Scott Snyder one the most in this.

Batman/Superman keeps confusing me with its timeline, its art and writing.
I really need to go through this in one go some time because i feel like i get into the Rhythm of this arc.

Of course im mainly into Detective Comics...and it yet again delivered.
Im a bit annoyed at the "slow" pace, which is good because im invested into the story and want it to continue as fast as possible.
It added another layer to the already interesting arc and im really curious to see where this leads to.
I liked Lydia and how she told the cops how to do their job...that was funny to me. XD
Too bad she was sadly in the middle of what is going on and now had to pay the price.
But her death adds something to the story.
We have another new Lady Clayface? Eh i would have liked a Zombie kind of story more, but its either way.
Liked Huntress in this and her back-up story.
Mr Worth getting more unhinged and Mayor Nakano being so cowardly...not a fan considering who Nakano was supposed to be.
But i get it, the story is about Mr Worth so i can deal with that.
Loved The Penguin and his goons design...except for Penguins "fish hands", i always hate that when an artist does that.

Harley Quinn is one series i enjoy too by now, especially with the way they write her here.
Where she tries so hard to turn around and become better, i really like that.
Took me a while to get into it...probably due to the art, but i enjoyed issue 3 a ton also due to the art.

Robin continues to be a surprise how good it is.
Not really a fan of how easy it is still for Damian to kill, but since the arc not really kills those people...its fine.
Im really looking forward to where this goes, i can guess it but i dont want to throw it out in case im wrong.

Im waiting what people think about Mister Miracle, i have completely forgotten about this and im not sure if i should pick it up.

And i just realized that i havent picked up yet Strange Adventures...i really need to do that some time.

Overall again a great week

 

[CrimsonMist]

Long time since I posted here. Been busy busy busy.

I decided to add Action Comics to my pull list. Despite making the decision to cut it, I keep buying it. This week's issue sealed the deal. It's just too good to drop. Johnson is handling multiple story threads with finesse. The plot has a weight to it that promises to be epic in scope. Plus, I LOVED The War World story he told in FutureState. Sempere's artwork is also very formal and classical.

Been digging Nightwing quite a bit. It's such a low-key book, but has such a special vibe to it. This could very well be a sleeper hit. Bruno Redondo's artwork is absolutely killer, too. Reminds of Will Eisner, early Frank Miller and Nick Derington's work with Bendis on Batman: Universe.

Rorschach continues to prove to me that Tom King is the only one who should be trusted to play in the world of Watchmen. I feel like such a scab saying it, but it's true. It was a smart move to switch the narrative focus to the broader world and impact of Watchmen than it was to deal with any of the characters directly, ala Before Watchmen. There's so much paranoia, and under-the-skin creeping terror within every page. I have no idea where it's gonna end up, but it's gonna be something crazy. Jorge Fornes is simply one of the best artists in mainstream comics right now and the fact that neither DC nor Marvel have scooped him up (after doing killer work for BOTH companies) is a complete and total ball drop on their end. Say what you want about King, but even more than Bendis, the man has the best collaborators in superhero comics today. I'm antsy with excitement for his Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow series with the glorious Bilquis Evely.

Speaking of King, Strange Adventures #10 laid out all the clues I subconsciously picked up on while re-reading the first nine issues. A tired cliche, I know, but it's more than appropriate to say that King & Co. dropped a damn atomic bomb on us. I spent a solid 5 minutes just kinda staring slackjawed at the book once I finished reading it. I'm hesitant to say it doesn't bode well for Adam Strange, but there are 2 issues left and anything is possible. Doc Shaner has been delivering the goods on co-art duties, outdoing himself again and again, but it's Mitch Gerads who continues to blow my mind with his progress as an artist. He's approaching peak-Howard Chaykin levels of gobstopping art and storytelling. His posturing, his details, his sense of fashion, the shading of skin tones...everything is just infuriatingly great. AND his Infinite Frontier covers are the sole reason I'm buying the series, quality be damned.

Robin has been a lot of run. Wasn't the biggest fan of Joshua Williamson's Flash, though he wrapped it up pretty nicely. But Robin has a very cool, pulp-Battle Royale vibe to it, and I love that Conner Hawke is a major player in it. I think Williamson has found a perfect character that suits his writing voice very well. Gleb Melnikov has the potential to be the next big artist as well. I love Damien's new costume. It feels suitably less techy and busy than his OG Robin suit, and reminds of me Zorro and old pulp heroes.

The Flash has been fun as well, but this first arc feels very much like a first arc. A little repetitive, a little boring, but Wally usually bounces back after a few issues. Looking forward to what the future brings on this title.

Swamp Thing's been pretty cool. As a huge fan of the character, it's been refreshing having a new voice bring something different and invigorating to the franchise. Looking forward to the next few issues with appearances by Constantine and Alec Holland.

Thought the new Mister Miracle was interesting, though I thought the final page just derailed it into painfully obvious (see: BAD) comic book cliches. N'Vir Free? Really?! That's almost as a bad, if not worse, than the dreaded Death Bringers (oOoOoOhHhH!!!) in Venditti's Hawkman. Dug the art a lot, and am glad someone's doing something interesting with Shiloh Norman. But i'd rather see a story dealing with the more topical themes of the book in regards to MM's ability to "always escape!" than tired superhero cliches. But maybe that's the point. We'll see.

Is anyone reading The Good Asian over at Image? The first issue was quite good, and the solicits only make it sound better and better.

Immortal Hulk long ago cemented itself as one of the greatest modern Superhero comics of all time. It only gets better and better. And as we wind down to the finish line, I suspect the story won't end well for anyone. There's a certain kind of hope permeating the book, undercut by a palpable sense of nihilism that feels true to the character. I never thought I'd be so committed to a Hulk book, but here we are. My plan going forward was to leave Marvel when Immortal Hulk wraps up, subsequently leaving behind the new Iron Man series, but Marvel had to go and announce a new Defenders mini series by Al Ewing, and so I remain.

In comics news, Mark Waid has a Superman story in the June issue of Superman: Red & Blue so I will most definitely be buying that. In the August issue of Superman: Red & Blue, there will be a story by not only Tom King, but by Matt Wagner as well, making that issue a must-buy for me. Paolo Rivera has art in the book too, and I kinda hope it's for the King story. I also hope King has a short story in an upcoming issue of the Wonder Woman: Black & Gold book.

If anyone here likes Ed Brubaker but hasn't been keeping up with his Reckless series of graphic novels(or the Pulp graphic novel, or the recent batch of Criminal comics) allow me to publicly shame you into picking them up: SHAME! The two books out now are just so good. Effortlessly written, effortlessly drawn, Brubaker and Philips prove once again that they are the unparalleled comic book team.

 

[Superchan]

If anyone here likes Ed Brubaker but hasn't been keeping up with his Reckless series of graphic novels(or the Pulp graphic novel, or the recent batch of Criminal comics) allow me to publicly shame you into picking them up: SHAME! The two books out now are just so good. Effortlessly written, effortlessly drawn, Brubaker and Philips prove once again that they are the unparalleled comic book team.

OK Mr Mist in my efforts to avoid public shaming I went out and got the 2 books but I'm warning you right now if I'm let down by them you'll get hate PMs from me for a whole week!
In all seriousness I love Brubaker, Incognito was pure genius, Criminal is...well, criminally underrated and kill or be killed completes the trifecta. I do have to admit that I'm not feeling moonshine or more accurately put: I don't get it!

 

[signalman]

From the August Solicitations I notice they are doing SS movie cover variants on some of the titles.
With POLKA-DOT MAN being in the movie I am disappointed that no writer did a Polka-Dot Man
story in one of the many Bat-titles that are being released.

 

[CrimsonMist]

OK Mr Mist in my efforts to avoid public shaming I went out and got the 2 books but I'm warning you right now if I'm let down by them you'll get hate PMs from me for a whole week!
In all seriousness I love Brubaker, Incognito was pure genius, Criminal is...well, criminally underrated and kill or be killed completes the trifecta. I do have to admit that I'm not feeling moonshine or more accurately put: I don't get it!

Lol, it's all good. Incognito is so underrated. Ive had his Sleeper stuff in my shelf for a bit but to my eternal shame, I have not gotten around to reading it. I DID re-read Pulp though and maybe I was more in tune with it this time around but it hit pretty hard. It was so much better the second go-round, and I likes it a lot to start.

Maybe you're not feeling Moonshine because its actually written by Brian Azzarello, whose output in quality has taken a substantial dip these last few years? I bought the first few issues of Moonshine and opted not to stick with it, Eduardo Risso art and werewolves be damned.

 

[Superchan]

Maybe you're not feeling Moonshine because its actually written by Brian Azzarello, whose output in quality has taken a substantial dip these last few years? I bought the first few issues of Moonshine and opted not to stick with it, Eduardo Risso art and werewolves be damned.

Holly s***!!! You're absolutely right! Would you honestly believe me if I told you that I read 3 whole issues and not realized that it was Brian Azz who was writing it? LOL, honestly that is so embarrassing! But hey atleast this clarifies things a little.
Too bad about Azz though, 100 bullets was a masterpiece in my opinion and I really liked Lex the man of steel, but he's been kind of hit and miss for me, since I hated his for tomorrow run on Superman and now the aforementioned Moonshine.

 

[flickchick85]

I think the last thing I read of Azzarello's was his WW run (which I mostly liked). Hard to believe that was a decade ago now. He's always been pretty hit-or-miss for me, though. That WW run and Lex Luthor: Man of Steel are the only works of his I recall really enjoying.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I like the new Nightwing series and I'm currently digging the impending change with Superman. I also love the current direction of Green Lantern. We were able to get GL writer Geoff Thorne on our podcast, so if you like GL, give us a listen.

 

[Babillygunn]

Holly s***!!! You're absolutely right! Would you honestly believe me if I told you that I read 3 whole issues and not realized that it was Brian Azz who was writing it? LOL, honestly that is so embarrassing! But hey atleast this clarifies things a little.
Too bad about Azz though, 100 bullets was a masterpiece in my opinion and I really liked Lex the man of steel, but he's been kind of hit and miss for me, since I hated his for tomorrow run on Superman and now the aforementioned Moonshine.

I loved Superman: For Tomorrow. Until I got 80% finished and hated it. Superman’s interactions with the priest were profound and had tons of heart. Then Azzarello made the decision to make the priest a Doomsday rip-off and the story spiraled out of control and generally sucked from then on.

 

[Mani-Man]

I loved Superman: For Tomorrow. Until I got 80% finished and hated it. Superman’s interactions with the priest were profound and had tons of heart. Then Azzarello made the decision to make the priest a Doomsday rip-off and the story spiraled out of control and generally sucked from then on.

^^This.
Such a strong story until it reaches that part, then it loses its strength almost completely.

Anyway...Comic Day was and that makes me happy.

Batman #109

Alone for the Harley/Ghost-Maker banter and his pettyness its worth it. XD
Hilarious as hell, i love this rivalry between him and Batman to the point where he is so damn petty that he puts a bigger dinosaur into his "Ghostcave".
Part of me hopes that we will get a Ghost-Maker series down the line and make him a permanent character...he is a lot of fun, one of the best new characters in recent times.
The part with Gardener and Ivy is interesting, im looking forward to that.
And can i just say that Jimenez draws a incredible beautiful Ivy...loving her look.
A bit anticlimatic was Batman meeting Simon Saint and then the Peacekeeper...i expected...more somehow.
But since the Arc is far from over and will run for a while, its fine at the moment.

Batman the Adventure Continues

It surreal to see a Talon in the style of the Animated series...sadly the story wasnt all that good imo.
Would have loved to see a court of owls version Animated style.
Nostalgia is what drives this imo because the writing so far isnt all that great to me.

DC Horror presents: The Conjuring
Has nothing to do with any DC superheroes but still a neat story so far.
Dont know if i need to know more about The Conjuring universe for this or not.
I know the movies but thats about it.

Justice League still is neat, even though the round panels threw me off during the reading.
You can do it once but then it got rather wonky in placement and all.
But the story is neat so far.
Aquaman in a Tank...whats not to love about that XD

Suicide Squad was really cool and im liking that Red X...wonder if it is someone we know under that.
It created a few possible storylines etc that could be neat in the future.
Really happy with Suicide squad so far.

Swamp Thing continues to be good too...im really enjoying it a lot.

Good Week.

 

[gohei_]

A question for you guys, I've read the first paperback (the thicker ones) of the Suoerman/Batman run by Jeph Loeb and Really enjoyed it. I am about to get the second one and I have also seen the rest of them (7 volumes in total) for a pretty good price. Is the run still good after Loeb leaves, should I get all of the volumes?

 

[Mani-Man]

A question for you guys, I've read the first paperback (the thicker ones) of the Suoerman/Batman run by Jeph Loeb and Really enjoyed it. I am about to get the second one and I have also seen the rest of them (7 volumes in total) for a pretty good price. Is the run still good after Loeb leaves, should I get all of the volumes?

Hm, i would say yes but honestly i could confuse it with one of the many Superman/Batman runs.
Im at the moment very confused with which i have.
If its for a good price i would give it a shot.

New comic week and a big one at that.

Batman The Detective continues to be neat, especially bringing in Ducard.
Loved the Flashbacks and all, the story really works for me.
Only thing that threw me off were the last few pages because i keep forgetting somehow the look the choose for Bruce.
It took me a long second before i realized the guy in the apartment we see is Bruce.XD

Batman Urban Legends...i hate it with a passion because its so expensive for the fact that i really just want to read the red hood part.
But i also love it for exactly that part.
Great writing on that part, loving the writing of Jason.

Dc Pride as most of those kind of Books was lovely and you could tell the love.
Mariko Tamaki continues to grow onto me as writer, i like how the characters speak and all.

Which brings me to Detective Comics.
The Arc continues to entertain me even though i found the pacing here a bit too fast.
But Mr Worth keeps being a interesting character, simple but effective in his purpose.
A rich and powerful guy who wants to get his hands on the person who killed his daughter and in the process gets more unhinged.

Justice League: Last Ride keeps you guessing what happened and all, really liking that teasing and hinting that doesnt get annoying and instead makes you curious.

The Joker keeps being strangely entertaining, especially since it revolves around the "who attacked Arkham" thing.
Loving the writing and even more the art with unique panels featuring the Joker.

The Joker presents: A Puzzlebox starts quite interesting, but kind of weird.
Seeing Jim opposite of the Joker this calm etc is really strange...especially considering in the other Joker story he followed him to kill him.
But lets see where this goes.

Wonder Woman keeps being a really good read...except with her hooking up with Siegfried.
Unless DC finally grows some backbone and gives the people Batman/Wonder Woman, you cant please me with anything romanticly when it comes to Diana.
I like Siegfried but nope DC...give me Bruce and Diana as couple at least for a while, give me the same you are willing to give Superman/Wonder Woman fans.

But i digress.XD
Its a very neatly written and drawn series so far, really liking it.

A really good week of DC comics imo.

 

[gohei_]

Appreciate the input Mani-Man, and I will most likely get them pretty soon.

I got my very first Absolute Edition the other week; The Killing Joke. The reason I wanted this particular version was solely for the fact that it contained both color versions.
First off, the build and quality of the book is super nice (I really liked the fact that the original color version had a different kind of paper to it, which I believe it was released as originally), so I can really see why people like these versions.
I'm sad to say that I did not much care for this, really one of the weaker Batman stories that I have read. The confrontation between Batman and Joker in the end was good but other than that it wasn't any special, and the dialogue was pretty rough to be honest. The original coloring is beautiful though.

 

[gohei_]

I've been buying a lot of books lately. Mostly I've been filling some gaps in my current collections (older material that's getting sold out), but also a couple of newer books that caught my interest.
A few days ago I recieved the All-New Wolverine Omni as well as the Batman Demon Trilogy HC, and I'm really looking forward to reading both of these,but I haven't deciced which one to start with Most likely Batman just cuz it's the smallest one.
Also picked up the Man of Steel HC vol 1 by John Byrne, that sounds like a fun read as well.

 

[Babillygunn]

I've been buying a lot of books lately. Mostly I've been filling some gaps in my current collections (older material that's getting sold out), but also a couple of newer books that caught my interest.
A few days ago I recieved the All-New Wolverine Omni as well as the Batman Demon Trilogy HC, and I'm really looking forward to reading both of these,but I haven't deciced which one to start with Most likely Batman just cuz it's the smallest one.
Also picked up the Man of Steel HC vol 1 by John Byrne, that sounds like a fun read as well.

I LOVE the Demon Trilogy. What an incredibly fun read.

 

[gohei_]

I LOVE the Demon Trilogy. What an incredibly fun read.

I read the first story tonight, I highly enjoyed it. The art is stellar!

 

[Babillygunn]

I read the first story tonight, I highly enjoyed it. The art is stellar!

I love the first one. (Birth). Very epic. Ras’ backstory makes him a very sympathetic villain. The third one (Son of the Demon) is my favorite. It’s like a 1960s James Bond story, but with Batman.