Tyler Hoechlin is Clark Kent/Superman

DarkKnight said:
I've never been able to get behind this guy as Superman. Glad to see so many enjoying the show. Its just not for me.
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I’m curious. Who is your favorite live action Superman,and what’s your favorite Superman comic, if you struggle with Tyler and this iteration?
 
Christopher Reeve and
Babillygunn said:
I’m curious. Who is your favorite live action Superman,and what’s your favorite Superman comic, if you struggle with Tyler and this iteration?
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Christopher Reeve and Henry Cavil are "The Supermen" in my eyes. As far as comics, I've read so many over the years Its hard to pick just one.
Tyler just dosent have the look in my opinion. It bothers me, his acting is ok. I suppose I've just never been a fan of him in general from other shows etc and that hurts my enjoyment.
Again, I'm happy so many do get to enjoy it and enjoy Tyler as Superman. Its just not for me. I tried watching Supergirl and it was ok. I've watched some episodes of this series as well as my friend uploads every episode to his PLEX account as he is a big fan. Just not for me is all.
 
It’s all good. Different strokes for different folks and all. I was just curious. Personally, I grew up with Reeve. I love those films. I wanted to love Cavill as Superman, but the writing just wasn’t there. The Snyder films just seemed so out of touch with what Superman is in the comics, that I never could buy him in the role. It’s like an elseworlds tale that I don’t want to read.

Hoechlin, to me, is probably a better representation of the Superman that I enjoy reading in the comics than any other live action version I have come across. I acknowledge that it’s a fine line between loving the actors and loving the writing, but he embraces the great writing and characterization that I have seen in the show.

That’s why I was curious as to what your favorite Superman comic is. That probably defines how you see the character. For me, I love All Star Superman, Birthright, and Up in the Sky, so you can imagine that I appreciate the character when he is shown as wholesome, but at the same time supremely powerful, intelligent, and unwavering. I also love the Tomasi/Rebirth era so having him in Smallville, married with a family is perfect for me.
 
Babillygunn said:
It’s all good. Different strokes for different folks and all. I was just curious. Personally, I grew up with Reeve. I love those films. I wanted to love Cavill as Superman, but the writing just wasn’t there. The Snyder films just seemed so out of touch with what Superman is in the comics, that I never could buy him in the role. It’s like an elseworlds tale that I don’t want to read.

Hoechlin, to me, is probably a better representation of the Superman that I enjoy reading in the comics than any other live action version I have come across. I acknowledge that it’s a fine line between loving the actors and loving the writing, but he embraces the great writing and characterization that I have seen in the show.

That’s why I was curious as to what your favorite Superman comic is. That probably defines how you see the character. For me, I love All Star Superman, Birthright, and Up in the Sky, so you can imagine that I appreciate the character when he is shown as wholesome, but at the same time supremely powerful, intelligent, and unwavering. I also love the Tomasi/Rebirth era so having him in Smallville, married with a family is perfect for me.
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I can completely understand and respect that. Thats another reason why I'm happy and can still appreciate Tyler Superman because I know there is a fanbase for it. Let us all be happy with what we like with the character. Thats a benefit of multiverse's and different films, shows, timelines etc.
Man of Steel touched my heart and was extremely on the nose for me from experiences when growing up.
 
I’m still not the biggest fan of this show’s main premise — i.e., Clark and Lois in Smallville with two teenaged sons. But given the premise, the overall execution has been pretty impressive. And I wouldn’t disagree with ranking S&L as the best of the Arrowverse.

And Hoechlin is fine. He’s probably not the next Laurence Olivier; but he gives a solid performance and offers a respectable interpretation of the character(s). I would concede that there’s not a lot of difference between Hoechlin’s Superman and Clark. But since so much of Clark is about his family interactions (wherein the secret identity is no secret), there’s less rationale for an alternate persona.
 
Babillygunn said:
It’s all good. Different strokes for different folks and all. I was just curious. Personally, I grew up with Reeve. I love those films. I wanted to love Cavill as Superman, but the writing just wasn’t there. The Snyder films just seemed so out of touch with what Superman is in the comics, that I never could buy him in the role. It’s like an elseworlds tale that I don’t want to read.

Hoechlin, to me, is probably a better representation of the Superman that I enjoy reading in the comics than any other live action version I have come across. I acknowledge that it’s a fine line between loving the actors and loving the writing, but he embraces the great writing and characterization that I have seen in the show.

That’s why I was curious as to what your favorite Superman comic is. That probably defines how you see the character. For me, I love All Star Superman, Birthright, and Up in the Sky, so you can imagine that I appreciate the character when he is shown as wholesome, but at the same time supremely powerful, intelligent, and unwavering. I also love the Tomasi/Rebirth era so having him in Smallville, married with a family is perfect for me.
Click to expand...
Same. Well, except for the love of the Reeve films. I mean, Reeve was great, but the Pre-Crisis take on Clark Kent just was never something I could get on board with. Golden Age, sure, but Silver and Bronze, not so much. Which for me means Tyler is the first EVER Superman actor to actually embody the Superman I know and love from the comics. So he's THE Superman to me, without question now.

And I know it's not a popular opinion but to me he has "the look" more than most who've played the character. There's a ruggedness to Superman and the way he's drawn by my favorite comic artists that literally everyone who's played him in live-action in the last 2 decades (so Routh, Welling and Cavill basically) didn't have. They all have such delicate, privileged boy faces to me...that ain't the "Supes look" in my head. Welling and Cavill have square jaws but also weak chins and such pretty boy faces. And Cavill's bulbous nose just throws off the whole look - I don't know why, but the nose is key to the Supes look to me for some reason, lol. Superman's almost never drawn with that round nose. The pale, rosy-cheeked complexion doesn't help, either. He looks like the guy you'd cast as the rich, preppy bully in a movie set in a British boarding school to me, not a blue collar farm kid. And Routh has a slightly better look, but has still always looked kinda...soft to me. Tyler by contrast looks like a guy who I'd totally buy as a baseball-loving, hard-working farmer more than any of those guys, and he does it with the square jaw, strong chin, strong eyebrows, dark hair and "Old Hollywood" handsomeness I associate with "the look." Supes should be more Cary Grant or Clint Walker than Montgomery Clift, imo.
 
This show gets the spirit of the Superman character so right, in the writing. Something the Snyder movies utterly failed at.

Tyler has the most acting range of the modern actors who have played the character.

Personally, I think he would be better suited for playing a Young Superman at the beginning of his career.. not a 20 year 'Elder Statesman' veteran with teenage sons.

George Reeves fit the mold of that 'fatherly' Superman.

Brandon Routh.. as close to Chris Reeve as we're probably going to get, but even he would seem a bit off as the father of grown teens.

tyl.png


It's unfortunate Tyler wasn't in the mix for Man of Steel. You probably would have gotten a less wooden performance that resonated with audiences a lot more. He's good.
 
Time Captain said:
This show gets the spirit of the Superman character so right, in the writing. Something the Snyder movies utterly failed at.

Tyler has the most acting range of the modern actors who have played the character.

Personally, I think he would be better suited for playing a Young Superman at the beginning of his career.. not a 20 year 'Elder Statesman' veteran with teenage sons.

George Reeves fit the mold of that 'fatherly' Superman.

Brandon Routh.. as close to Chris Reeve as we're probably going to get, but even he would seem a bit off as the father of grown teens.

tyl.png


It's unfortunate Tyler wasn't in the mix for Man of Steel. You probably would have gotten a less wooden performance that resonated with audiences a lot more. He's good.
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While we do not agree on the Cavil/Snyder Superman (respectively of course) I can totally agree with you on Routh Superman. Routh is as close as we would ever have gotten with another Christopher Reeve as Superman and a Reeve film.... and thats exactly what Superman Returns was meant to be, the official Superman III film. As many problems as Superman Returns had, Routh was NOT one of them in my opinion. I enjoyed him as Superman, I enjoyed a lot of things in that film and just wish it could have been more. Though I have not watched all of the various Arrowverse shows, I have made sure to watch any of them that featured Routh as Superman again. Superman Returns really needed another villain, we did not need another Superman vs Lex retread like in the previous Reeve films.
As I said in another one of my posts that was in a different Superman Thread. I can only watch Superman catch falling planes and helicopters and stopping "Natural or created disasters" for so long. I want to see him battle in a Superman the Animated series/Dragonball Z style fight. Which I was thrilled to finally get in MOS.
I love the first two Reeve Films (Especially the Donnor cut of Superman II), Superman Returns, as I said, while I have issues with it, I still enjoy it enough to watch occasionally and far superior to Superman III & IV and of course MOS is the Superman film for me.
 
There's enough traditional charm with Hoechlin's Superman, as well as bringing fresh elements story wise, that just make this series a winner.

I think Hoechlin has done an amazing job as Superman. His visual appearance/look as the character has grown on me a bit, I do prefer Cavill/Welling's appearance, but like I said it's growing on me.

As far as acting, and overall story (so far) this has been my favorite Superman. Nothing against the other ones, I have just REALLY enjoyed this series immensely. And to think I almost didn't watch it! So glad I decided to watch the pilot!

Tyler Hoechlin, Henry Cavill, Tom Welling, Dean Cain, Christopher Reeves... I've enjoyed all of them. But Hoechlin is really making a climb to that number one spot for me.
 
flickchick85 said:
Same. Well, except for the love of the Reeve films. I mean, Reeve was great, but the Pre-Crisis take on Clark Kent just was never something I could get on board with. Golden Age, sure, but Silver and Bronze, not so much. Which for me means Tyler is the first EVER Superman actor to actually embody the Superman I know and love from the comics. So he's THE Superman to me, without question now.

And I know it's not a popular opinion but to me he has "the look" more than most who've played the character. There's a ruggedness to Superman and the way he's drawn by my favorite comic artists that literally everyone who's played him in live-action in the last 2 decades (so Routh, Welling and Cavill basically) didn't have. They all have such delicate, privileged boy faces to me...that ain't the "Supes look" in my head. Welling and Cavill have square jaws but also weak chins and such pretty boy faces. And Cavill's bulbous nose just throws off the whole look - I don't know why, but the nose is key to the Supes look to me for some reason, lol. Superman's almost never drawn with that round nose. The pale, rosy-cheeked complexion doesn't help, either. He looks like the guy you'd cast as the rich, preppy bully in a movie set in a British boarding school to me, not a blue collar farm kid. And Routh has a slightly better look, but has still always looked kinda...soft to me. Tyler by contrast looks like a guy who I'd totally buy as a baseball-loving, hard-working farmer more than any of those guys, and he does it with the square jaw, strong chin, strong eyebrows, dark hair and "Old Hollywood" handsomeness I associate with "the look." Supes should be more Cary Grant or Clint Walker than Montgomery Clift, imo.
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Hoechlin looks like Jeffery Hunter a bit. Definitely the old Hollywood look which you don't see all that much these days.

I agree that Cavill looks too much like some old Etonian schoolboy. There's a Britishness about his look and even mannerisms that doesn't really give off the impression he grew up in the Midwest on a farm.
 
flickchick85 said:
And I know it's not a popular opinion but to me he has "the look" more than most who've played the character. There's a ruggedness to Superman and the way he's drawn by my favorite comic artists that literally everyone who's played him in live-action in the last 2 decades (so Routh, Welling and Cavill basically) didn't have. They all have such delicate, privileged boy faces to me...that ain't the "Supes look" in my head. Welling and Cavill have square jaws but also weak chins and such pretty boy faces. And Cavill's bulbous nose just throws off the whole look - I don't know why, but the nose is key to the Supes look to me for some reason, lol. Superman's almost never drawn with that round nose. The pale, rosy-cheeked complexion doesn't help, either. He looks like the guy you'd cast as the rich, preppy bully in a movie set in a British boarding school to me, not a blue collar farm kid. And Routh has a slightly better look, but has still always looked kinda...soft to me. Tyler by contrast looks like a guy who I'd totally buy as a baseball-loving, hard-working farmer more than any of those guys, and he does it with the square jaw, strong chin, strong eyebrows, dark hair and "Old Hollywood" handsomeness I associate with "the look." Supes should be more Cary Grant or Clint Walker than Montgomery Clift, imo.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Tyler's definitely got the Superman look to me. Maybe he isn't the tallest actor to fill the red boots, but by no stretch of the imagination would I ever consider him short. His physique is nothing to scoff at either. (The dude is clearly jacked!) And like you said, he's got the square jaw and dark hair that we generally associate with the character. Come to think of it, he's naturally more dark haired than any of his recent predecessors in the role. Cavill's hair, for instance, is normally brown and curly, and Reeve's was even a couple of shades lighter. Both actors relied on product and other means so as to better embody the role, physically speaking. And while other on-screen Supermen such as Routh and Welling have reasonably dark (brown) hair, thus negating the need for any extra soy sauce as BN likes to call it, Hoechlin still has the vast majority of them beat with that near-black hair of his. "But... but he doesn't have blue eyes! Not mah Superman without blue eyes!!" This isn't anything you don't already know, but for a lot of fans—especially those of the purist type—Superman's blue eye color is a trademark feature that should be maintained at all costs. And yes, Hoechlin does, in fact, lack this feature. But guess what? In the overall scheme of things, I can't think of a more trivial detail. (Okay, maybe I can, but work with me here!) Never mind that "green" eyes, as they appear in humans, are often sort of bluish by nature, but there's already a precedent for green and even brown-eyed Supermen!

It's interesting that you mention Cavill's nose, as it's this particular characteristic that certain Hoechlin critics seem to find themselves struggling with at times. Now, while I wouldn't necessarily describe Cavill's nose as bulbous, apart from the tip, that is, I definitely see what you're getting at there. For similar reasons, I could never fully get on board with fans who regularly likened him to Jurgens' Superman, or Lee's for that matter. As relates to Hoechlin's nose, even with the contour giving it a sort of beakish or "Roman" effect, that doesn't really throw off the look IMHO, to borrow your phrasing. Indeed, on closer inspection, it seems greatly reduced when he isn't smiling, frowning, etc., thus creating the illusion of a straighter nose bridge. And yes, comic book artists have been known to depict Superman and other comic book superheroes with sharp features since time immemorial. Granted, aquiline/Roman nose shapes are used a little less frequently—in rendering "good guys", as opposed to stereotypically villainous characters—than the more traditional straight nose variety, but they're not too uncommon. Look no further than Leinel Yu, his pencils in Superman: Birthright (you've heard of this one before, right? :cwink:) to be specific. For good examples of the latter, they can be found in everything from Jim Lee's work to the late Michael Turner's. And given that Hoechlin started out with a fairly straight nose (evidenced by his earlier appearances in movies like Road to Perdition) that gradually curved downward with age, his current look falls somewhere in between those renderings as I see it.

All of that being said, we're talking about the literal shape of molecules here (facial molecules at that!), most of which has no actual bearing on things like masculinity and capacity for hard work. I understand that in selling a movie to global audiences who come w/ all manner of generalizations, as informed partly by stuff that's already baked into the collective consciousness, you have to cater to certain expectations. But with notions of what constitutes manliness varying from person to person, there needs to be a little flexibility in how filmmakers go about the casting process; and thankfully, there is to some degree. Otherwise, you might as well forget about talent and just hire bodybuilders and Victoria Secret models, as they're better suited to the unrealistic body standards you'll generally find in the pages of a comic. It's not even that I really disagree with you here, Flick, as I'd never want someone like Noah Centineo cast in the part of a Superman or a Batman. But when you start saying things like a male actor's "too pretty" for whatever reason despite him mostly meeting the right criteria (strong jawline, muscular build, etc.), it's not much different than saying an actress is wrong for a feminine part merely on account of her face being too angular or her boobs being too small. I know we all do this kind of thing from time to time, but it's worth considering the implications just the same.
 
Dark Raven said:
Hoechlin looks like Jeffery Hunter a bit. Definitely the old Hollywood look which you don't see all that much these days.

I agree that Cavill looks too much like some old Etonian schoolboy. There's a Britishness about his look and even mannerisms that doesn't really give off the impression he grew up in the Midwest on a farm.
Click to expand...

Jeffrey Hunter would've made a great Bruce Wayne/Bats to Clint Walker's Superman back in the day.
 
With the new Multiverse out there, I wonder if Earth-38 is still the home of Superman and Supergirl before the Crisis. I want to see Earth-Prime Superman meet Earth-38 Superman.
 
ArmsHeldOut said:
Yeah, Tyler's definitely got the Superman look to me. Maybe he isn't the tallest actor to fill the red boots, but by no stretch of the imagination would I ever consider him short. His physique is nothing to scoff at either. (The dude is clearly jacked!) And like you said, he's got the square jaw and dark hair that we generally associate with the character. Come to think of it, he's naturally more dark haired than any of his recent predecessors in the role. Cavill's hair, for instance, is normally brown and curly, and Reeve's was even a couple of shades lighter. Both actors relied on product and other means so as to better embody the role, physically speaking. And while other on-screen Supermen such as Routh and Welling have reasonably dark (brown) hair, thus negating the need for any extra soy sauce as BN likes to call it, Hoechlin still has the vast majority of them beat with that near-black hair of his. "But... but he doesn't have blue eyes! Not mah Superman without blue eyes!!" This isn't anything you don't already know, but for a lot of fans—especially those of the purist type—Superman's blue eye color is a trademark feature that should be maintained at all costs. And yes, Hoechlin does, in fact, lack this feature. But guess what? In the overall scheme of things, I can't think of a more trivial detail. (Okay, maybe I can, but work with me here!) Never mind that "green" eyes, as they appear in humans, are often sort of bluish by nature, but there's already a precedent for green and even brown-eyed Supermen!

It's interesting that you mention Cavill's nose, as it's this particular characteristic that certain Hoechlin critics seem to find themselves struggling with at times. Now, while I wouldn't necessarily describe Cavill's nose as bulbous, apart from the tip, that is, I definitely see what you're getting at there. For similar reasons, I could never fully get on board with fans who regularly likened him to Jurgens' Superman, or Lee's for that matter. As relates to Hoechlin's nose, even with the contour giving it a sort of beakish or "Roman" effect, that doesn't really throw off the look IMHO, to borrow your phrasing. Indeed, on closer inspection, it seems greatly reduced when he isn't smiling, frowning, etc., thus creating the illusion of a straighter nose bridge. And yes, comic book artists have been known to depict Superman and other comic book superheroes with sharp features since time immemorial. Granted, aquiline/Roman nose shapes are used a little less frequently—in rendering "good guys", as opposed to stereotypically villainous characters—than the more traditional straight nose variety, but they're not too uncommon. Look no further than Leinel Yu, his pencils in Superman: Birthright (you've heard of this one before, right? :cwink:) to be specific. For good examples of the latter, they can be found in everything from Jim Lee's work to the late Michael Turner's. And given that Hoechlin started out with a fairly straight nose (evidenced by his earlier appearances in movies like Road to Perdition) that gradually curved downward with age, his current look falls somewhere in between those renderings as I see it.

All of that being said, we're talking about the literal shape of molecules here (facial molecules at that!), most of which has no actual bearing on things like masculinity and capacity for hard work. I understand that in selling a movie to global audiences who come w/ all manner of generalizations, as informed partly by stuff that's already baked into the collective consciousness, you have to cater to certain expectations. But with notions of what constitutes manliness varying from person to person, there needs to be a little flexibility in how filmmakers go about the casting process; and thankfully, there is to some degree. Otherwise, you might as well forget about talent and just hire bodybuilders and Victoria Secret models, as they're better suited to the unrealistic body standards you'll generally find in the pages of a comic. It's not even that I really disagree with you here, Flick, as I'd never want someone like Noah Centineo cast in the part of a Superman or a Batman. But when you start saying things like a male actor's "too pretty" for whatever reason despite him mostly meeting the right criteria (strong jawline, muscular build, etc.), it's not much different than saying an actress is wrong for a feminine part merely on account of her face being too angular or her boobs being too small. I know we all do this kind of thing from time to time, but it's worth considering the implications just the same.
Click to expand...
I was just countering those arguments that those guys “have the look” and he doesn’t. To me, he simply has the look MORE than they do. I wasn’t trying to say any of them were wrong for the role due to their looks. And as an aside, I don’t count blue eyes as part of the look as Supes wasn’t originally drawn with those in the Golden Age, George Reeves didn’t have them either, and they didn’t even really become a consistent trait associated with him until Reeve. But even after that, Dean Cain didn’t have ‘em. It’s just not something I associate with “the look.” In a way, I feel like the public’s whole idea of the look changed and was reformed with Reeve in mind because his portrayal was so defining. Because I suspect when Shuster was drawing him, he was imagining more of the “Jewish ideal” than someone with more typically “aryan” features. And I think Bruce Timm carried that on in STAS, as he also ditched the blue eyes and gave him a notably darker complexion than than the other white folks around him (except Lex). Either way, blue eyes is just one trait I consider intermittently associated with the role, not part of the requisite look.
 
@flickchick85 Not that relevant to the discussion, but I thought you might appreciate these illustrations, as we tend to have similar artistic sensibilities. And it's always fun to see what goes into the thought processes behind some of our favorite works.

Greg Capullo on visual differences between Bruce (right) and Clark (left)

Ec77MpUXoAAOvdf


Jim Lee's approach

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5daa4adb0df6366048815ae13ff9488a.jpg
 
ArmsHeldOut said:
@flickchick85 Not that relevant to the discussion, but I thought you might appreciate these illustrations, as we tend to have similar artistic sensibilities. And it's always fun to see what goes into the thought processes behind some of our favorite works.

Greg Capullo on visual differences between Bruce (right) and Clark (left)

Ec77MpUXoAAOvdf
Click to expand...
I literally see Tyler (left) and Henry (right) here. :funny:
 
If I'm being honest, I haven't been a fan of Capullo since his run on X-Force in the '90s. (He did a mean Cable back in the day.)

But yeah, while his Bruce is okay, I much prefer Jimenez and Mann's respective takes on the character. Stuff like this not so much.
 
Did they take in the suit a little or am I just getting used to it? It seems less bulky somehow.
 
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