What version of Doctor Doom do you want to see?

[The Guard]

A "Namorita"? That's a concept too ridiculous for words...

 

[GoblinScrier]

What surprises me is anyone who likes Doom who would want to see anything that radical done to him when we've already had enough character assassinations with this movie franchise including the past Dooms of Fox's failed attempts. Guess at the end of the day, Corman's F4 is still the most faithful in both look and character adapting.

 

[Ant-manic]

Because not only do most of Doom's character traits work differently (and consequently result in a different character entirely) when applied to a woman as they would when applied to a male (much less a male like Doom), some of them aren't applicable at all, like Doom's brand of egocentrism and chauvinism.

It's like comparing Tywin Lannister to Olenna Redwyne.

Doom's rivalry with Reed plays out differently if the former was a woman. A female Doom wouldn't treat Sue the same as the male one did (well, she could TRY, but then it'd just be... odd).


Which wouldn't make that character Doom. Hell, another male with Doom's character traits wouldn't be Doom.

The only thing that would make lesser sense than a female Doom is a female Namor.

I'm not sure how to respond. none of what you just wrote makes any sense. a female Doom would only treat sue or reed differently if written that way. their rivalry is intellectual. who is smarter? where does sex play into that? I've read Books of Doom. sex is far from a concern for him. he sees himself as above it. why couldn't a female Doom be the same way? why couldn't a female Doom try to save her mother's soul from hell, be scarred, and ascend to the throne by using technology to overthrow the current monarchy? there's literally nothing that dictates him be a dude. Doom doesn't have children. he's never been shown standing up at the urinal. we rarely even see him outside of the armor. sorcery isn't gender specific. intelligence isn't gender specific. arrogance isn't gender specific.

 

[Mr. Fixit]

Female Doom is ridiculous.

If they want a female villain then pick one from FF history.

How about Llyra?

Then they could tie in Submariner and actually give us something different for once.

 

[Ant-manic]

Llyra is ridiculous.

 

[GoblinScrier]

Llyra is ridiculous.

So is the idea of a female Doom...are you even a fan of the character? How could you even remotely want to see that done to him? Doom is one of the most iconic characters in all of comicdom...to have anything short of his comic book look, attitude, agenda, goals, etc. is giving the character the shaft.

 

[GoblinScrier]

I'm not sure how to respond. none of what you just wrote makes any sense. a female Doom would only treat sue or reed differently if written that way. their rivalry is intellectual. who is smarter? where does sex play into that? I've read Books of Doom. sex is far from a concern for him. he sees himself as above it. why couldn't a female Doom be the same way? why couldn't a female Doom try to save her mother's soul from hell, be scarred, and ascend to the throne by using technology to overthrow the current monarchy? there's literally nothing that dictates him be a dude. Doom doesn't have children. he's never been shown standing up at the urinal. we rarely even see him outside of the armor. sorcery isn't gender specific. intelligence isn't gender specific. arrogance isn't gender specific.

How about the fact he was written as VICTOR VON DOOM, SON TO CYNTHIA/WERNER VON DOOM? Created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee as that character and NOT some bastardization that Fox might deem worthy in their eyes...

 

[Super Jim]

Ooh, ohh...

What if Doctor Doom was in love with Reed Richards and seduced him and became his baby momma?

That could be a good sequel!

 

[bubbadoom]

Female Doom is ridiculous.

If they want a female villain then pick one from FF history.

How about Llyra?

Then they could tie in Submariner and actually give us something different for once.

How is Llyra a part of FF history - she's a Sub-Mariner villain and since - as I think may have been pointed out here before - Fox DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHTS TO NAMOR - how can they use anything from his world.

Now they may have a claim on Attuma - since he was introduced in the pages of the FF - so maybe they could adapt a Namor story and change him to Attuma...

 

[Ant-manic]

So is the idea of a female Doom...are you even a fan of the character? How could you even remotely want to see that done to him? Doom is one of the most iconic characters in all of comicdom...to have anything short of his comic book look, attitude, agenda, goals, etc. is giving the character the shaft.

i'm not remotely a fan of Doom. but i might be if after the sex change.

 

[Ant-manic]

How about the fact he was written as VICTOR VON DOOM, SON TO CYNTHIA/WERNER VON DOOM? Created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee as that character and NOT some bastardization that Fox might deem worthy in their eyes...

neither Jack or Stan created Doom to be on the big screen. they have no say in the movie adaptation. and cynthia could have just as easily have had a daughter. all of Doom's personality and resourcefulness comes from his mother, anyways.

but, realistically, Doom should never be in one of these movies. he's an anachronism/only really works within the confines of comic book fantasy. he was created to be the top villain of the comicbookverse. as such, he was given a backstory that had little to do with his adversaries; so as not to confine him to being simply a FF threat. that's why he's so hard to adapt.

his origin would require a movie of its own. and, even then, he's still going to pale in comparison to Darth Vader. Vader has the advantage of fitting into his environment. his power set and background are connected to the hero of the piece. if you look at most of the villains that have been introduced successfully in comic book movies, they share these traits. Magneto and the X-Men are mutants. the Red Skull and Captain America are super soldier recipients. the Hulk and Abomination are gamma spawned. Loki is Thor's half-brother. etc... and none of these folks need much explanation; power-wise. compare that to Doom. he's a superhumanly intelligent "gypsy" whose mother left him a book of sorcery to learn from. but forget all of that because he was invited to ESU where he almost roomed with Reed Richards. then one of his experiments blew up in his face. so he spent some time with monks who worshipped him and build the armor that he now wears. oh and he took over a country and lives in a castle. but we assure you that he's baseline human. :eye rollage:

 

[GoblinScrier]

neither Jack or Stan created Doom to be on the big screen. they have no say in the movie adaptation. and cynthia could have just as easily have had a daughter. all of Doom's personality and resourcefulness comes from his mother, anyways.

but, realistically, Doom should never be in one of these movies. he's an anachronism/only really works within the confines of comic book fantasy. he was created to be the top villain of the comicbookverse. as such, he was given a backstory that had little to do with his adversaries; so as not to confine him to being simply a FF threat. that's why he's so hard to adapt.

his origin would require a movie of its own. and, even then, he's still going to pale in comparison to Darth Vader. Vader has the advantage of fitting into his environment. his power set and background are connected to the hero of the piece. if you look at most of the villains that have been introduced successfully in comic book movies, they share these traits. Magneto and the X-Men are mutants. the Red Skull and Captain America are super soldier recipients. the Hulk and Abomination are gamma spawned. Loki is Thor's half-brother. etc... and none of these folks need much explanation; power-wise. compare that to Doom. he's a superhumanly intelligent "gypsy" whose mother left him a book of sorcery to learn from. but forget all of that because he was invited to ESU where he almost roomed with Reed Richards. then one of his experiments blew up in his face. so he spent some time with monks who worshipped him and build the armor that he now wears. oh and he took over a country and lives in a castle. but we assure you that he's baseline human. :eye rollage:

hmm...well obviously talking to you is like talking to a brickwall...no sense in trying to get through to you at all...luckily there is enough Doom fans on here who see this potential news as an outrage and blasphemous....

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

hmm...well obviously talking to you is like talking to a brickwall...no sense in trying to get through to you at all...luckily there is enough Doom fans on here who see this potential news as an outrage and blasphemous....

Yes. I've actually been warned by moderators for simply advising people to stop arguing with those who do not know or care about these characters and are obviously just arguing for the fun of it. Fruitless. But I like concurring with people and you, Goblin, I agree with.

 

[lordofthenerds]

Kiruna Stamell for Doom:

 

[the gael]

We need a great villain, Victoria Van Damme, the terrifying midget woman with goat legs will threaten the world !

Spoiler

Or maybe just the fan !

 

[The Question]

I think that the film version of Doom should take inspiration from real life revolutionaries like Vladimir Lenin and Che Guevara. Not to say that Doom should share their ideology (although I could see Doom believing in a very dark and ruthless interpretation of socialism, but that can open an ideological can of worms that maybe this franchise shouldn't get into), just in their methods and their public persona. Doom should feel like someone who people would actually willingly follow in a glorious revolution against a brutal dictator. I also think Doom should mirror the complex morality of those men. While ultimately, yes, Doom is a villain and does terrible things, often for petty reasons, I feel like Doom should be portrayed as a man of great vision and conviction who truly wants what's best for Latveria and the world, but is burdened by a great darkness that gives him a strong tendency to carry out his plans with a savage ruthlessness and makes him unable to let go of old rivalries and petty hatreds.

One thing I think is important is that they portray his petty jealousy of Reed Richards with some subtlety. I don't think it should be something that's kept him awake at night for the last ten years. I think that after he left ESU, he went about his long journey towards rallying his army and overthrowing Latveria's government, and didn't think about Reed Richards at all during that time. He wanted revenge against the King for murdering his father and he wanted freedom for his people, and that's what occupied his thoughts. Then, years later, when Doom is the ruler of Latveria and has been for a little while, the Fantastic Four becomes a thing and Doom sees them, and his old friend and rival's intellect, as a resource to be acquired for the good of Latveria. But, as he goes after them for entirely practical purposes, all of that pent of jealousy and resentment towards his former friend begins to bubble up to the surface and color his actions and intentions, and as Reed and the FF regularly thwart him all of that jealousy and all of the anger he's been carrying inside of him his whole life that no longer has an outlet all gets focused on Reed and his family, and their rivalry becomes entirely personal.

Also, an idea that I had that I rather like is that, when Doom and his army takes Latveria, he doesn't set up a dictatorship. He sets up an entirely democratic constitutional monarchy. There's a Parliament and a Prime Minister and regular free and fair elections and political parties and everything. Doom becomes the King of Latveria as a figurehead position, much like the monarch of the United Kingdom, and all of his constitutional powers and duties are chiefly ceremonial in nature. He says to his followers from the revolution that it was his duty to tear down the old order, and it is now the duty of the people to build a new one, and his role now is to serve as a guide and counsel in more of an emeritus position. However, even though Latveria is a democracy and all of the real constitutional power lies with the Parliament and the Prime Minister's cabinet, Doom is engaging in so much behind-the-scenes manipulation, gathering intel on everyone and making shady closed door deals and using blackmail and bribery and whatnot, that he's basically the one running the country regardless of what the law says. In his mind, Latveria is a free democracy rules by the people and he isn't a dictator, he's simply taking some necessary measures to insure Latveria's security and future growth through means that run parallel to the legal and political process and use his influence in an appropriate manner, and he absolutely does not see the cognitive dissonance there.

What surprises me is anyone who likes Doom who would want to see anything that radical done to him when we've already had enough character assassinations with this movie franchise including the past Dooms of Fox's failed attempts. Guess at the end of the day, Corman's F4 is still the most faithful in both look and character adapting.

It's because changes aren't bad. It's bad changes that are bad. Movie studios don't have an upper limit to how many changes from a source material they get to make, and if they use them up on bad changes then they don't get anymore. That's kind of silly.

So is the idea of a female Doom...are you even a fan of the character? How could you even remotely want to see that done to him? Doom is one of the most iconic characters in all of comicdom...to have anything short of his comic book look, attitude, agenda, goals, etc. is giving the character the shaft.

No it isn't.

That wouldn't only be the case if changing the character's gender would in any way diminish the character.


That being said, I'm not sure I trust Hollywood to keep the nature of Reed and Doom's rivalry 100% platonic if they changed either character's gender, so I'm not sure it's a good idea.

 

[bubbadoom]

That wouldn't only be the case if changing the character's gender would in any way diminish the character.


That being said, I'm not sure I trust Hollywood to keep the nature of Reed and Doom's rivalry 100% platonic if they changed either character's gender, so I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Should they go with a female Doom I am sure Fox could not resist the obvious and make them a former couple or at least have Reed reject Victoria as a love interest and this is the foundation of her hatred. This it why is should be Sue who was the object of Victoria's affection - let's keep this modern and progressive!

The FF fan in me wants this to be as close to the source material as possible, but since I am not liking anything I am seeing thus far - then I am fine with Doom being a woman - it all sounds pretty FF'ed up so why not at this point?

 

[GoblinScrier]

Sorry to those who are trying to tell me that changing Doom's gender, etc is an okay change...I will NEVER buy into anything like that. Doom is perfectly written the way he was...any fan would want to see Doom portrayed comic book accurately since he has yet to be done justice (Corman is the closet) and I just can't believe that these writers just don't get it. Doom's character can translate to the screen. I get certain things might have to be changed but minor enough to still give us the product and I am sorry, I don't want to see a Victoria Von Doom or Van Damme or a Doom whose origin is tied into the team (regardless of the Ultimate F4's comics).

I would rather the F4 and Doom just never get made than suffer yet another blow to this franchise. I mean can Fox really be this dense? Guess so considering the bulk of their comic book adaptations really suck...just so glad for Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy this year, then Age of Ultron to give me something worthy.

 

[The Question]

Sorry to those who are trying to tell me that changing Doom's gender, etc is an okay change...I will NEVER buy into anything like that. Doom is perfectly written the way he was...any fan would want to see Doom portrayed comic book accurately since he has yet to be done justice (Corman is the closet) and I just can't believe that these writers just don't get it. Doom's character can translate to the screen. I get certain things might have to be changed but minor enough to still give us the product and I am sorry, I don't want to see a Victoria Von Doom or Van Damme or a Doom whose origin is tied into the team (regardless of the Ultimate F4's comics).

How does making Doom a woman change his character? How would Doom have to be written any differently beyond changing the pronouns?

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Wow. Are you saying that if you were a woman you'd be the same person with the same proclivities? Are you really that non-insightful and blind to human nature? Or are you just are arguing for the fun of it?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Wow. Are you saying that if you were a woman you'd be the same person with the same proclivities? Are you really that non-insightful and blind to human nature? Or are you just are arguing for the fun of it?

It is funny to see how people see Doom's chivalry and code of honor, which are classically male idealist aspects, are totally ignored by some people on here.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Indeed.

 

[The Question]

Wow. Are you saying that if you were a woman you'd be the same person with the same proclivities? Are you really that non-insightful and blind to human nature? Or are you just are arguing for the fun of it?

Let me answer your question with a question: Are you saying that it's impossible for a woman to ever have the same personality, skills, and goals as Doom?

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

So you realize that you can't answer my question without sounding silly.

 

[The Question]

So you realize that you can't answer my question without sounding silly.

I'll answer you question: If I was born physical female then yeah, I'd probably turn out pretty different because many of my life experiences would have been different. But I don't see how that's relevant. If you change something about a character in an adaptation, you're not required to then rework their entire history based on that change to make them a different person. If you change a character's sex of ethnicity or sexual orientation or whatever, you can still have them end up with the exact same personality, motivations, and abilities as they originally had. Characters in productions of Shakespeare plays get gender flipped and race-lifted all the time, and the people putting on those plays never change what the character does or says.

So, now I will restate my question: Do you think it's impossible for a woman to have the same personality, goals, and skills that Doom has?