Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

[Cktopl33]

Its the lack of quality control. Kinberg as an overseer should be doing his job and make sure that characters don't over lap Xpecially this is still part of whatever film franchise Wolverin Jackman was part of. Like it's great if the writers have creative freedom. But not this kind of creative freedom where its okay to ignore characters from the previous films.

The X-men franchise doesn't have anything like an "overseer". The film rights were bought by 20Th Century Fox and producer Lauren Shuler Donner back in the 90s. Peter Rice is currently president of 21st Century Fox (exact same title Kevin Feige has at Marvel Studios) and Rice was supervising creative executive on the first X-men movie, launching the franchise. He is likely the one (or one of many other executives) everyone answers to. The x-men films were made much like standalone movies, not as an integrated cinematic universe. Kinberg's job isn't an "overseer", he's a co-writer and co-producer (and now director) on these films.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Doesn’t stop Kinberg from using the designation “grandfather of the X-men films” (to score the directorial gig) or for the current First Class cast from sharing the same talking point of calling him the braiN behind the X-men film franchise. You’re right though, had he used those lines around the OT cast (ie. “I’m the Grandfather of the X-men,” “braiN of the X-men”) they’d laugh to his face.

 

[DACrowe]

Its not the public's fault that they don't care about the younger version as much as the original gang... Just look at the boX office results, even after X3, they were a big draw to Dofp. Apocalypse's cast doesn't have the same effect and that's why Dark PhoeniX would have a big obstacle to overcome even if its a good film.

And those nostalgia glasses you we referring to is why people saw Logan. And why there are so many reboots/sequels/revival happening.

Box office doesn't negate quality. Or are you telling me you honestly think The Last Stand is a better movie than Logan and First Class?

I am saying The Last Stand is the root problem of all of the things you hate about the franchise. FC and DOFP righted the mess that film made. Apocalypse is a disappointment, but it was sandwiched between Deadpool and Logan. If it wasn't for the Disney-Fox deal, we'd have years to go of an ever bigger X-Men universe.

To put it another way. TLS gave us lemons. It ended the series on that bitter, sour note. First Class and DOFP made lemonade out of it, but you are angry at them for the lemons they had to work with. It just does not make a whole lot of sense.

Logan is filled with nostalgia, but it also is unlike anything else in the superhero genre. I want more of that while building on the original films' foundations, as opposed to going backward and yearning to repeat the past, which honestly was Apocalypse's biggest problem.

 

[DACrowe]

Like you? If you have read Deadpool comics, you would know that Tom is essential to Deadpool, and Shatterstar is not a background character in X-Force. Comic fans don't know them? Or people who had no clue about the comics.

Oh yes, you are a true keeper of the eternal flame.

I read plenty of X-Men comics in the day, yes less Deadpool, but I'm aware of Black Tom. If you're going to pretend he is the Juggernaut or Sabertooth or Omega Red, or Sinister, or [insert important X-villain here], you are going out of your way to pick at Deadpool 2.

 

[EnDz0n3]

All this "X3 sucks more than Apocalypse!" "No! Apocalypse sucks more!" and all I can think of is that the guy who wrote both films is not only WRITING this new film but is DIRECTING Dark Phoenix...

But yea, nothing to see here folks!

 

[x-er]

I try to stay positive thinking SH will have an MCU X-Men 1 subforum someday...

 

[Jh7058622]

Except both films were commitee writing projects not his sole creative concept. Look I'm not saying he's going to be oscar worthy, far from it, but I want to see what he can come up with left to his own devices. You're right in the sense that now it is on his shoulders squarely.

It's funny how you use those as your "everyone needs to pick up their pitchforks and hate Kinberg" moment but yet you fail to give credit where due when it comes to him writing DOFP the best reviewed X-Men film to date. Actually outside of the initial script by Matthew Vaughn and co. Kinberg and Singer were the main story and dialogue creators of that film unlike in his other movies that he was literally being controlled and things he would write in the script would be vetoed or just ignored (Rogue not taking the cure/Jean having Phoenix Raptors etc.)

Previous installments were writer think tanks that would cherry pick what directors liked or disliked. This is why Joss Whedon's one line of dialogue that made it into X-Men was his most infamous.

 

[kevork89]

This thread is so fun.

 

[Orba]

The X-men franchise doesn't have anything like an "overseer". The film rights were bought by 20Th Century Fox and producer Lauren Shuler Donner back in the 90s. Peter Rice is currently president of 21st Century Fox (exact same title Kevin Feige has at Marvel Studios) and Rice was supervising creative executive on the first X-men movie, launching the franchise. He is likely the one (or one of many other executives) everyone answers to. The x-men films were made much like standalone movies, not as an integrated cinematic universe. Kinberg's job isn't an "overseer", he's a co-writer and co-producer (and now director) on these films.

Actually they do. Originally Mark Millar was signed to be a creative consultant at Fox on their Marvel stuff. That was pretty quickly forgotten and Kinberg was sign up to do the same thing. Kinberg is still refered to as Fox's overseer on their Marvel properties.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Doesn’t stop Kinberg from using the designation “grandfather of the X-men films”

Has he even done that? i searched google for this phrase and just found your post.

Its like you alway using the designation "Most bitter person on SHH" and rubbing it in all our faces... oh wait you never designated yourself that, it just what i referred you to as just now.

or for the current First Class cast from sharing the same talking point of calling him the braiN behind the X-men film franchise. You’re right though, had he used those lines around the OT cast (ie. “I’m the Grandfather of the X-men,” “braiN of the X-men”) they’d laugh to his face.

What the hell are you even talking about.

 

[GuestStar2004]

(Rogue not taking the cure/Jean having Phoenix Raptors etc.)

Rogue taking the cure was apparently Tom Rothman asking his Daughter what she thinks Rogue should do and then it was put into the script.

Why jean didn't have a raptor that could be down to either Rothman or Ratner

This is why Joss Whedon's one line of dialogue that made it into X-Men was his most infamous.

Well Whedon blames Bryan for that one saying he didn't get the line right. it wasn't meant to be used in a serious tone.

 

[X-Maniac]

The X-men franchise doesn't have anything like an "overseer". The film rights were bought by 20Th Century Fox and producer Lauren Shuler Donner back in the 90s. Peter Rice is currently president of 21st Century Fox (exact same title Kevin Feige has at Marvel Studios) and Rice was supervising creative executive on the first X-men movie, launching the franchise. He is likely the one (or one of many other executives) everyone answers to. The x-men films were made much like standalone movies, not as an integrated cinematic universe. Kinberg's job isn't an "overseer", he's a co-writer and co-producer (and now director) on these films.

Kinberg is hardly likely to refer to himself as an overseer but he has been designated as one.

The Hollywood Reporter called him "godfather of Fox's universe based on the uncanny Marvel mutants."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/multiple-man-movie-james-franco-star-1059031

Deadline called him "X-Men architect".

http://deadline.com/2017/03/simon-kinberg-logan-interview-deadpool-gambit-1202038420/

If he is one - and I don't see why either of those big Hollywood sites would make it up - he isn't doing a good job, is he? Screenwriters like Wernick can just pluck characters from a list, change their powers and plonk them in a movie without there being any record of the character's prior appearances? What a crap system.

And what happened to Mark Millar, who was brought on board as a consultant to help with translating the comic books to screen?

 

[Flint Marko]

Kinberg is hardly likely to refer to himself as an overseer but he has been designated as one.

The Hollywood Reporter called him "godfather of Fox's universe based on the uncanny Marvel mutants."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/multiple-man-movie-james-franco-star-1059031

Deadline called him "X-Men architect".

http://deadline.com/2017/03/simon-kinberg-logan-interview-deadpool-gambit-1202038420/

If he is one - and I don't see why either of those big Hollywood sites would make it up - he isn't doing a good job, is he? Screenwriters like Wernick can just pluck characters from a list, change their powers and plonk them in a movie without there being any record of the character's prior appearances? What a crap system.

And what happened to Mark Millar, who was brought on board as a consultant to help with translating the comic books to screen?

I have no insider knowledge but I’m beyond positive that Millar’s “role” in “shaping the Fox/Marvel universe” resulted in one or two meetings where both parties figured out they had no real idea what to do or where to go. This was also around the time of FFINO when they were teasing that FF/X-men crossover that absolutely no one wanted.

 

[psylockolussus]

Its like WB. Thing is unlike the MCU, they don't have 1 person serving as the glue in the franchise. But its all messy continuity, despite all the criticism about this, they continue to do more. Its not even like it would take a lot of effort/moey to make sure characters don't overlap. How is it hard to just renameYukio to Surge, or remove Black Tom's name just so they could use the character in the future? Lazy FoX.

Oh yes, you are a true keeper of the eternal flame.

I read plenty of X-Men comics in the day, yes less Deadpool, but I'm aware of Black Tom. If you're going to pretend he is the Juggernaut or Sabertooth or Omega Red, or Sinister, or [insert important X-villain here], you are going out of your way to pick at Deadpool 2.

Read Deadpool comics then. Again Deadpool 2 isn't eXactly a X-Men film, its a Deadpool film within the X-Men movie franchise. Even if it is, Black Tom isn't a dlist villain in the X-Men lore Xpecially in the Deadpool comics to be treated as an Xtra. Like I've said if the actor was just portraying an unknown mutant from the comics, there would be no complaints. And lmao Angel Dust and Ajax got more importance than Black Tom in the film and those two wouldn't even pass for a b list Marvel comic book status. Don't tell me there's nothing wrong like that, just like there's nothing with wasting X-Men staples like Psylocke, Angel in favor of Brotherhood staples/villains like Mystique/Quicksilver.

 

[psylockolussus]

Kinberg is hardly likely to refer to himself as an overseer but he has been designated as one.

The Hollywood Reporter called him "godfather of Fox's universe based on the uncanny Marvel mutants."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/multiple-man-movie-james-franco-star-1059031

Deadline called him "X-Men architect".

http://deadline.com/2017/03/simon-kinberg-logan-interview-deadpool-gambit-1202038420/

If he is one - and I don't see why either of those big Hollywood sites would make it up - he isn't doing a good job, is he? Screenwriters like Wernick can just pluck characters from a list, change their powers and plonk them in a movie without there being any record of the character's prior appearances? What a crap system.

He's totally the overseer of these films Xpecially given the fact that he produces these films which should give him the power to make sure these films coordinate well into each other and not confuse us more. Its funny when Deadpool pokes fun of it,but when you really think about it, it shows FoX's incompetence and their lack of appreciation to details.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Well, after the events of DP2, I’m even more certain that Chastain is not playing any form of Sinister.

 

[Cktopl33]

He's totally the overseer of these films Xpecially given the fact that he produces these films which should give him the power to make sure these films coordinate well into each other and not confuse us more.

That wouldn't make him an overseer anymore than the other producers on these films. A producer isn't an overseer by default of being a producer.

Using your logic, "Lauren Shuler Donner!! Oh! She's an overseer!!! She produces!!! Hutch Parker.....he's an overseer!! He's a producer of X-men movies!!! Singer's an overseer!!"

 

[Cktopl33]

Kinberg is hardly likely to refer to himself as an overseer but he has been designated as one.

The Hollywood Reporter called him "godfather of Fox's universe based on the uncanny Marvel mutants."

Deadline called him "X-Men architect".

If he is one - and I don't see why either of those big Hollywood sites would make it up - he isn't doing a good job, is he? Screenwriters like Wernick can just pluck characters from a list, change their powers and plonk them in a movie without there being any record of the character's prior appearances? What a crap system.

And what happened to Mark Millar, who was brought on board as a consultant to help with translating the comic books to screen?

-which is significant....how? Kinberg doesn't refer to himself as an overseer.....because he isn't one. Other people calling him that doesn't make it so by default, X-Maniac. Those are their words. This is probably because he's directing the next x-men movie. Just because he produces doesn't automatically label him an overseer of these movies. He is a co-producer and other producers have been on this franchise longer than he has. He answers to higher-up executives or president of the studio like all the other producers on these films.

And what about Mark Millar? Creative consultants are usually people who have been consulted on a movie screenplay. That's not a title of overseer.

 

[X-Maniac]

-which is significant....how? Kinberg doesn't refer to himself as an overseer.....because he isn't one. Other people calling him that doesn't make it so by default, X-Maniac. Those are their words. This is probably because he's directing the next x-men movie. Just because he produces doesn't automatically label him an overseer of these movies. He is a co-producer and other producers have been on this franchise longer than he has. He answers to higher-up executives or president of the studio like all the other producers on these films.

It's is quite amazing how you seek to absolve Kinberg of any responsibility for absolutely anything that has ever happened with any of the X-Men films or the Floptastic 4.

Going by what you said, he must be the most impotent writer/producer ever to exist, reduced simply to a mindless puppet who carries out on-set screenplay rewrites to appease studio demands.

I look forward to some interviews where he doesn't sound like he is co-ordinating the entire franchise as, according to you, no one has that role and this then must be why we have the crap system of character selection and atrocious continuity.

And what about Mark Millar? Creative consultants are usually people who have been consulted on a movie screenplay. That's not a title of overseer.

When Millar was hired, the Fox studio press release stated:

Twentieth Century Fox has brought on comics superstar Mark Millar to serve as a creative consultant on the studio’s upcoming projects based on Marvel Comics properties.

Millar will work with Fox on developing new avenues for its “X-Men” and “Fantastic Four” tentpoles.

Yet we never heard a word from him since. Seems he was elbowed out of the way by people who already had their ideas.

I'm not saying he was an overseer, but why hire a 'comics superstar' whose work includes Ultimate X-Men if he's not going to be able to have a voice or an influence, and to bring his comics awareness to the franchise (which has very little comics awareness).

 

[psylockolussus]

That wouldn't make him an overseer anymore than the other producers on these films. A producer isn't an overseer by default of being a producer.

Using your logic, "Lauren Shuler Donner!! Oh! She's an overseer!!! She produces!!! Hutch Parker.....he's an overseer!! He's a producer of X-men movies!!! Singer's an overseer!!"

Why do you continue to ignore the articles that Fox hired him to oversee. My God lol.

Kinberg is heavily involved with next summer's X-Men: Days of Future Past and the studio's upcoming Fantastic Four reboot as both writer and producer. The new deal will allow him to expand those franchises into full-blown universes, with the hope of creating for Fox something akin to the Marvel model of interlocking movies.

"I have a lot of ideas on how to built those brands and do what everybody is thinking of these days: Be like Marvel," Kinberg tells The Hollywood Reporter. "I want to be able to build stories over multiple movies."
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/x-men-writer-producer-simon-663057

First, we can't blame for the films he co-wrote/wrote, and now he's not overseeing anything therefore we can't blame him for the inconsistencies of the franchise??? Xcuses much.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well if you read interviews for these movies its often FOX they have to go to for the go ahead, its not simon kinberg.

Mangold didn't think fox would allow him to kill off some X-Men off screen, FOX gave him the ok. Ryan Reynolds didn't think Fox would allow him to use Origins Footage in the way he wanted too but they gave them the go ahead. often you don't hear these comments about asking Simon if they could do something.

But then look at Lauren Shuler Donner, she has been with this franchise since the start and judging by the multiple directions this franchise has gone you wouldn't think she had power in overseeing anything. and its not like Legion and the Gifted tie together incredibly well either.

Freedom is the word often used with these FOX movies and shows. they wanna give the freedom to make the movies and shows they want to make while also trying to keep the overall narrative of the universe for the most part clear.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Has he even done that? i searched google for this phrase and just found your post.

I still talk to the crew and was exchanging messages to the lead up of the studio secretly announcing Kinberg as director.

I posted about it around that time:

Most first-time directors don't have the ego to start with a big budget movie as their directorial debut and they also don't call themselves the Grandfather of the X-men movies, much to the chagrin of everyone around him.

Like you said it's unfortunate he had to make his debut with the X-men. I'm jealous of all these other franchises getting all these far more talented filmmakers as their director and we're stuck with this guy.

Just to spell it out: Word around the studio was Kinberg called himself the grandfather of the X-men movies to the top brass in order to secure the directorial gig. That along with getting a pay cut.

Its like you alway using the designation "Most bitter person on SHH" and rubbing it in all our faces... oh wait you never designated yourself that, it just what i referred you to as just now.

I think it's ban time for you again man. Weren't you banned for calling psy names? You were told many times about JUST discussing X-men, the subject matter of the thread, and by extension the film's director and writer and producer is fair game. You were warned many times about making it personal and calling your fellow SHH'ers names. Looks like lessons weren't learned then.

or for the current First Class cast from sharing the same talking point of calling him the braiN behind the X-men film franchise. You’re right though, had he used those lines around the OT cast (ie. “I’m the Grandfather of the X-men,” “braiN of the X-men”) they’d laugh to his face.

What the hell are you even talking about.

Sophie Turner, in an interview with one of the bigger magazines (EW?) called Simon Kinberg "the braiN* behind the X-men films."

*emphasis: Mine. I laugh everytime I read that he's the braiN (singular) behind the X-men.

Well, after the events of DP2, I’m even more certain that Chastain is not playing any form of Sinister.

Let's hope so.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I still talk to the crew and was exchanging messages to the lead up of the studio secretly announcing Kinberg as director.

I guess all we can do is take your word for alot of that stuff then.

Sophie Turner, in an interview with one of the bigger magazines (EW?) called Simon Kinberg "the braiN* behind the X-men films."

I liked how you mentioned the OC though like if they were the stars of this movie they would laugh at Simon Kinberg for anything like that. Course they wouldn't! they would respect him and even big him up just like anyone else for his part in the franchise.

And even when the current cast say positive stuff about Kinberg you say its either the cast lying or reading from a studio script.

Just to spell it out: Word around the studio was Kinberg called himself the grandfather of the X-men movies to the top brass in order to secure the directorial gig. That along with getting a pay cut.

Well if he did it doesn't sound like it got him very far if he still had to take a pay cut.

 

[henzINNIT]

I am saying The Last Stand is the root problem of all of the things you hate about the franchise. FC and DOFP righted the mess that film made. Apocalypse is a disappointment, but it was sandwiched between Deadpool and Logan. If it wasn't for the Disney-Fox deal, we'd have years to go of an ever bigger X-Men universe.

To put it another way. TLS gave us lemons. It ended the series on that bitter, sour note. First Class and DOFP made lemonade out of it, but you are angry at them for the lemons they had to work with. It just does not make a whole lot of sense.

The Last Stand clearly kicked the series in the nuts. That said, is it really hard to see the similar impact Apocalypse had on viewers? Both dipped hard from series highs. Apocalypse may have been born from lemons, but it spoiled a big comeback and stung just as hard. There isn't a body count*, instead it squanders its run time wheel spinning arcs for overexposed characters and continuing to under-utilize others. After TLS, fans were mourning losses and angry at Fox. Apocalypse has a guaranteed sequel in the works and people barely care. I'm not sure what's worse.

*I suppose a chunk of the fan base did lose some lives watching Apocalypse. Those same fans who were up in arms about the deaths in TLS finally got to see the original team reunited in DOFP. In a way, Apocalypse more definitively killed off the OT cast than TLS did.

 

[Alison Blaire]

*I suppose a chunk of the fan base did lose some lives watching Apocalypse. Those same fans who were up in arms about the deaths in TLS finally got to see the original team reunited in DOFP. In a way, Apocalypse more definitively killed off the OT cast than TLS did.

Totally agree.