Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Marvel united]

Writers who took inspiration from marginalized groups like the civil rights movement but erased black people from their stories.

That sounds nice and totally acceptable in a 2020 adaptation.

Fr Listing the main/defining XM writers who aren't POC, and aren't minorities... What does that do except emphasize the issue?

Like I said before, you could argue appropriation, and if there's any time to have that convo, it's now. The X-Men need to get with the times.

 

[Neptune]

You mean back when companies (Marvel ain't the exception) made it nearly impossible for minorities to find work in these fields?

This ain't 1963

Stan and Jack are the ones who created the X-Men. Both are children of immigrants by the way. Straight white males have written many excellent X-Men stories. It has nothing to do with their race and everything to do with their creative talents. Do we need a lesbian hispanic alien from space to write America Chavez? Do we need a Norse demi god from a different realm to write Thor?

 

[Lip]

It has nothing to do with their race and everything to do with their creative talents.

And there are plenty of creative talents who belong to oppressed groups and can tell (great) stories with more authenticity. But they have been denied from opportunities.

There's no reason to keep denying that.

 

[Neptune]

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Silvermoth]

It’s a shame we couldn’t see Hugh jack man’s wolverine interact with Chris Evans’ cap but oh well

"Some people really feel rooted in telling stories about their identity, and some people want to be seen as a filmmaker regardless of their gender and race."

I think anybody can write/direct to any type of character. White people can write black characters, straight can write gays and men can write female characters. The key is when you're talking about the experience of belonging to those groups. If you're writing a story about the experience of being a black woman, white men are certainly not the ones to tell it.

The X-Men is about the experience of being part of an oppressed minority. White straight cisgender men are not the ones to tell that story, IMO.

yeah I agree plus I think there’s a wonderful opportunity to promote some new voices. I mean, let’s be honest guys like Gareth evans and joss Whedon aren’t starving or trying to find new work

 

[Detective Conan]

Stan and Jack are the ones who created the X-Men. Both children of immigrants by the way. Straight white males have written many excellent X-Men stories. It has nothing to do with their race and everything with their creative talents. Do we need a hispanic alien from space to write America Chavez? Do we need a Norse demi god from a different realm to write Thor?

The irony of Lip’s post, is that the X-Men’s creators Stan and Jack, even they were cis gendered straight white males - could still technically be considered “oppressed minorities” themselves - they were both Jewish, who likely faced a lot of virulent anti-semitism and bigotry and they likely weren’t even really considered “white” at the time. Jack Kirby himself, was a Jewish man who grew up in a heavily crime infested ghetto, and lived in terrible poverty. Hell, the reason why there were so many Jews in the comics industry is precisely because that was one of the few jobs that Jews were allowed to do at the time, and not be discriminated against. Comics were viewed as one of those disposable trash jobs that no one wanted, which is why many Jews flocked to them; almost like how Mexican immigrants tend to take the menial low paying jobs no one wants because they tend to be easily accessible. Comics was viewed as the equivalent to being a measly janitor scrubbing toilets. An embarrassing , thankless job that normally wouldn’t be enough to make a fancy living off of.

In those days, the anti-semitism was so bad Jews basically had to change their surnames to something that was more Anglo-friendly. Hence why Stan Lieber became “Stan Lee” Jacob Kurtzberg became “Jack Kirby” and Robert Kahn became “Bob Kane”.

Now I’m not exactly saying being Jewish is exactly like being black or Asian(since in those cases you can’t hide your ethnicity with a name change) but I think it’s important to acknowledge the creators of the X-Men, while they were cis gendered white males probably were better equipped to tell stories of prejudice and bigotry better than you think — having likely faced it themselves.

 

[Lip]

but I think it’s important to acknowledge the creators of the X-Men, while not cis gendered white males, probably were better equipped to tell stories of prejudice and bigotry better than you think; having likely faced it themselves.

So you agree people who face bigotry themselves are better equipped to tell that type of stories. Great. We're on the same page then.

People like Justin Siemen, Ava DuVernay, Janet Mock, Barry Jenkins, etc... would be great to tell that type of story now.

 

[Lip]

Straight white males have written many excellent X-Men stories.

Because nobody else was given the opportunity.

And that's why after 60 years, more than 70% of the characters from the X-Men universe are white, cis and straight.

If over the years the opportunities for POC and queer writers were different we would've gotten more black characters, more latinx and finally a trans character.

 

[Marvel united]

The irony of Lip’s post, is that the X-Men’s creators Stan and Jack, even they were cis gendered straight white males - could still technically be considered “oppressed minorities” themselves - they were both Jewish, who likely faced a lot of virulent anti-semitism and bigotry and they likely weren’t even really considered “white” at the time. Jack Kirby himself, was a Jewish man who grew up in a heavily crime infested ghetto, and lived in terrible poverty. Hell, the reason why there were so many Jews in the comics industry is precisely because that was one of the few jobs that Jews were allowed to do at the time, and not be discriminated against. Comics were viewed as one of those disposable trash jobs that no one wanted, which is why many Jews flocked to them; almost like how Mexican immigrants tend to take the menial low paying jobs ‘cause they tend to be the easier alternative. Comics was viewed as the equivalent to being a janitor scrubbing toilets. A cheap thankless job that normally wouldn’t be enough to make a living off of.

In those days, the Anti-Semitism was so bad Jews basically had to change their surnames to something that was more Anglo-friendly. Hence why Stan Lieber became “Stan Lee” and Jacob Kurtzberg became “Jack Kirby” and Robert Kahn became “Bob Kane”.

I’m not exactly saying being Jewish is exactly like being black or Asian( since in those cases you can’t hide your race) but I think it’s important to acknowledge the creators of the X-Men, while not cis gendered white males, probably were better equipped to tell stories of prejudice and bigotry better than you think; having likely faced it themselves.

I absolutely acknowledge the struggles and persecution these men faced that allowed them to authentically tell these stories of prejudice, bigotry and oppression - But at the same time this was happening, Jim Crow was in full effect. Black people, and other visible POC were segregated of mainstream society.

It is a known fact that Stan Lee & John Romita sr had to fight to even have a Black supporting character in Robbie Robertson. And the reason T'Challa wore a full body costume to begin with was to hide the fact that he was Black. They had to do this to even get the issue published. POC were locked out of opportunity, even ones as low and menial as comic books.

That being said, I'll always be grateful for people like Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Chris Claremont etc. Standing up for other marginalized people having experienced prejudice themselves, at a time when doing so made you a target. Ofc I acknowledge that without them, there would be no X-Men. No Black Panther. Without somebody willing to push that envelope, it wouldn't have happened, and these stories would've never been told.

But like I said, that was 57 years ago. Times have changed, minorities of all creeds are telling their own stories. Imagine what a one-two punch combination of Barry Jenkins (Moonlight), and Lulu Wang (The Farewell) could do with the X-Men property.... They would certainly modernize/evolve this franchise for today's audience, and social climate.

It's a neccessary evolution... Y'know, the mutant's whole M.O.

 

[Silvermoth]

Yeah there’s so many talents out there that have dreamed about this for so long and would absolutely smash it out of the park. Anyway we can definitely do better than Brett “rehearsal is for f**s” ratner

 

[Silvermoth]

Oh by the way let’s circle back to who should be the main villain for the very first mcu movie. If you want sinister, who would be the best sinister?

because I’m loving the Hickman Sinister at the moment and I know he’s been cast in an x-film before but I think Alan cumming would be an amazing Sinister

 

[psylockolussus]

I was thinking Jon Hamm before. But this reboot is years away so I don't really wanna fancast.

 

[psylockolussus]

ViewerAnon, who’s an insider who’s accurately reported leaks over the years is posting this.



Yay or nay on Hugh Jackman coming back?

Big no for me.

Hopefully these delays (their entire slate being delayed by 1 year) will make Marvel Studios forget about the FoX actors in their reXpective roles. The reboot needs new blood. Save these recycling actors because of multiverse shtick to Spider-Man.

 

[Marvel united]

Oh by the way let’s circle back to who should be the main villain for the very first mcu movie. If you want sinister, who would be the best sinister?

because I’m loving the Hickman Sinister at the moment and I know he’s been cast in an x-film before but I think Alan cumming would be an amazing Sinister

Maybe this is the role for Matthew McConaughey? Leonardo DiCaprio too. Maybe they go A-list for Essex

For Sinister, he can technically be the true villain of any film as he's more of a Kingpin. He manipulates people BTS. You could make him an overarching figure over the films

For X1? I kinda want to see the Brotherhood again. This version I mean


I mean, think about it. There's a reason why every XM adaptation starts with them. The Brotherhood are THE ideological opposition to the X-Men's foundation

Plus by the time we get to this movie, we'll be a whole 25-26 years removed from X-Men (2000), and 19-20 years removed from TLS. They will be fresh to a whole new generation.

 

[MilkmanDan]

Maybe this is the role for Matthew McConaughey? Leonardo DiCaprio too. Maybe they go A-list for Essex.

I see those two more of as Reverend Stryker/Graydon Creed types. I can picture either of them on a podium giving an anti-mutant speech to a cheering crowd.

 

[Lip]

Maybe this is the role for Matthew McConaughey? Leonardo DiCaprio too. Maybe they go A-list for Essex

For Sinister, he can technically be the true villain of any film as he's more of a Kingpin. He manipulates people BTS. You could make him an overarching figure over the films

For X1? I kinda want to see the Brotherhood again. This version I mean
View attachment 38901

I mean, think about it. There's a reason why every XM adaptation starts with them. The Brotherhood are THE ideological opposition to the X-Men's foundation

Plus by the time we get to this movie, we'll be a whole 25-26 years removed from X-Men (2000), and 19-20 years removed from TLS. They will be fresh to a whole new generation.

I'm dying to see that brotherhood. But I'd rather see them in Captain Marvel 2 or a new Avengers movie, not sure about the first X-Men movie. I want to see Mystique as a recurring villain in the MCU, but not as a main antagonist in the X-Men movies.


About Sinister, if I remember correctly, Bryan Cranston once said he would like to play the villain. That would be a nice choice.

 

[psylockolussus]

Mystique as a recurring villain in the Mcu... Marvel has a large library of villains. Moonstone/Deathbird/Brood Queen havent appeared in a Marvel movie and we are suggesting Mystique already for Captain Marvel?

 

[psylockolussus]

Maybe this is the role for Matthew McConaughey? Leonardo DiCaprio too. Maybe they go A-list for Essex

For Sinister, he can technically be the true villain of any film as he's more of a Kingpin. He manipulates people BTS. You could make him an overarching figure over the films

For X1? I kinda want to see the Brotherhood again. This version I mean
View attachment 38901

I mean, think about it. There's a reason why every XM adaptation starts with them. The Brotherhood are THE ideological opposition to the X-Men's foundation

Plus by the time we get to this movie, we'll be a whole 25-26 years removed from X-Men (2000), and 19-20 years removed from TLS. They will be fresh to a whole new generation.

I don't want to see Mys freaking tique again. Well definitely not in the first X-Men mcu film.

Its a new era of X-Men films.... and we are getting Mystique again right off the freaking bat!!11 can the audience get a break from Mystique for a couple of X-Men team films first? She's hardly Xavier, not even the Wolverine and showing her in the reboot right away would be another opportunity for people to see her centerstage. Just big no to that suggestion.

 

[Marvel united]

I see those two more of as Reverend Stryker/Graydon Creed types. I can picture either of them on a podium giving an anti-mutant speech to a cheering crowd.

Dang, now that you mention it, yeah. Esp DiCaprio as the reverend. Maybe McConaughey as Senator Kelly or Henry Gyrich.

I'm all in on Chris Chalk ('When They See Us') as Bolivar Trask too

I'm dying to see that brotherhood. But I'd rather see them in Captain Marvel 2 or a new Avengers movie, not sure about the first X-Men movie. I want to see Mystique as a recurring villain in the MCU, but not as a main antagonist in the X-Men movies.


About Sinister, if I remember correctly, Bryan Cranston once said he would like to play the villain. That would be a nice choice.

I agree regarding Mystique. Hence why IMO Destiny could lead the team on the field while Mystique infiltrates. If you want Sinister as the "main" villain, then the Brotherhood could be working for him, and be physical antagonist to the X-Men.

Maybe Mystique could be a frenemy to the X-Men in their franchise. A recurring force they run into from time to time.

And most importantly, she'd have nothing to do with Magneto. She may know of him, but she wouldn't be his sidekick. She'd be her own independent party w her Brotherhood/Freedom force

I don't want to see Mys freaking tique again.

Its a new era of X-Men films.... and we are getting Mystique again right off the freaking bat!!11 can the audience get a break from Mystique for a couple of X-Men team films? Just big no to that suggestion.

But there's plenty of room to reinterpet Mystique, though. And she's kinda neccessary if you're gonna do Rogue.

Comic Mystique and the JLaw version are radically different characters. We have yet to see this Mystique:

 

[psylockolussus]

Dang, now that you mention it, yeah. Esp DiCaprio as the reverend. Maybe McConaughey as Senator Kelly or Henry Gyrich.

I'm all in on Chris Chalk ('When They See Us') as Bolivar Trask too
View attachment 38904


I agree regarding Mystique. Hence why IMO Destiny could lead the team on the field while Mystique infiltrates. If you want Sinister as the "main" villain, then the Brotherhood could be working for him, and be physical antagonist to the X-Men.

Maybe Mystique could be a frenemy to the X-Men in their franchise. A recurring force they run into from time to time.

And most importantly, she'd have nothing to do with Magneto. She may know of him, but she wouldn't be his sidekick. She'd be her own independent party w her Brotherhood/Freedom force


But there's plenty of room to reinterpet Mystique, though. And she's kinda neccessary if you're gonna do Rogue.

Comic Mystique and the JLaw version are radically different characters. We have yet to see this Mystique:
View attachment 38905

Her name is still Mystique. That's still another interpretation/adaptation of the character Mystique. I prefer to see other characters especially those who didn't already appear in siX movies and took screentime from the actual X-Men.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I can already picture X-men noobs wondering why Mystique is going against the X-men, when she should be leading them.

Yea we need a break from Mystique.

 

[Lip]

I agree regarding Mystique. Hence why IMO Destiny could lead the team on the field while Mystique infiltrates. If you want Sinister as the "main" villain, then the Brotherhood could be working for him, and be physical antagonist to the X-Men.

Maybe Mystique could be a frenemy to the X-Men in their franchise. A recurring force they run into from time to time.

And most importantly, she'd have nothing to do with Magneto. She may know of him, but she wouldn't be his sidekick. She'd be her own independent party w her Brotherhood/Freedom force

Yeah, I care about characters who can add the most to the story in a meaningful way, rather than just characters who simply never been on the big screen. Raven can add a lot, specially for Rogue and Kurt. Not to mention that we've never really seen Mystique on screen.

I don't really want her in the first X-Men movie, nor as a main villain. But I certainly want her as a recurring presence.

I love the character, and it's not going to be Simon ****ing Kinberg's mishandle of the franchise that it's going to make me not love her. She adds a lot to the story, and I want Rogue to get a proper start in the MCU.

 

[psylockolussus]

I can already picture X-men noobs wondering why Mystique is going against the X-men, when she should be leading them.

Yea we need a break from Mystique.

Thats my big issue. People who aren't that knowledgeable about the X-Men's history, probably think she's some big figure in the X-Men mythos, when she's really far from it. Really if someone reads all of these (it can be done)

Uncanny X-Men vol. 1 to 4
Adjectiveless X-Men vol. 1 to 5
Astonishing X-Men
Amazing/Xtreme/Extraordinary/All New/Gold
Those special 1 shots/special events X-Men titles/crossovers

Mystique is far from being one of the important characters in the X-Men mythos. Like the big three villains are obv Magneto, Apocalypse and Sinister. While actual X-Men like Psylocke, Rogue and even Angel are more integral to X-Men stories. I don't know why keep giving Mystique a platform right away the moment the mutants are introduced. And the eXcuse, that Mystique hasn't been properly adapt in the movids.... well Sherlock so are Psylocke, Rogue, Angel, Polaris, Jubilee, Iceman, Gambit, Colossus, Havok, Banshee, Bishop, Sage, Cecilia Reyes, M, Multiple Man, the New Mutants, X-Force, Strong Guy, Mr. Sinister, Legion, Proteus, Apocalypse, Shadow King, Forge, Dazzler, Sauron, Moonstone, Deathbird, Lilandra, the Brood, eXcetera....but we should be giving the one who already appeared in siX movies (undeservingly so) a movie role in X-Men's reboot in the mcu. Just no. I imagine a big uproar when Mystiqueis reported to appear and see comments... Mystique again?

 

[psylockolussus]

. Raven can add a lot, specially for Rogue and Kurt. Not to mention that we've never really seen Mystique on screen.

I don't really want her in the first X-Men movie, nor as a main villain. But I certainly want her as a recurring presence.

I love the character, and it's not going to be Simon ****ing Kinberg's mishandle of the franchise that it's going to make me not love her. She adds a lot to the story, and I want Rogue to get a proper start in the MCU.

And I can mention more characters that doesn't only service Rogue, Kurt and Destiny.

 

[Iceman]

@MilkmanDan, @Marvel united, sorry I’m struggling to reply to your multiquote on mobile. DiCaprio as Rev Stryker and McConaughey as Senator Kelly or Henry Gyrich would be amazing. I think these guys would be open to doing one off villain slots. The MCU has done well in attracting big names for those kinds of roles.

The only drawback is that I think these all need to be recurring background characters that grow in importance throughout the films. I want them to be a part of the fabric of the X-universe and not killed off too early or for their long term plans to come to fruition too early.