Hawley's Doctor Doom Film

[KRYPTON INC.]

Its not a show for everybody and when it comes to Marvel adaptations, it shouldn't be hard to follow.

Why? What's the basis of this rule? We aren't talking about say, some strange take on Cap, or Logan or Thor. Legion IS precisely the type of character that lends itself to something off the beaten path. Marvel characters at this point have a huge amount of adaptations that are sometimes even to a fault, squarely inoffensive and easy to follow straight forward four quadrant pieces of entertainment.

Except anyone that actually knows the full history of Marvel Comics, or super hero comics in general, grasps that there's more to what's been done with many of these properties than the simply tale of one good super powered character beating up another with some boiler plate "drama" thrown in. Honestly, as an X-Men fan you'd realize that Grant Morrison's take on the Mutants has a lot more in common with Legion as a show than with the MCU.

What's the matter with doing more challenging to the viewer projects like Legion? It's not like there's a dearth of traditionally done adaptations that appeal to the broadest sensibilities. Variety is good. That's true in comics and it's true for live action.

 

[Dark Raven]

Its not a show for everybody and when it comes to Marvel adaptations, it shouldn't be hard to follow.

I don't remember if it was hard to follow or not. I didn't like it or its tone. I gave up on Doom Patrol after about 10 minutes as well.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't remember if it was hard to follow or not. I didn't like it or its tone. I gave up on Doom Patrol after about 10 minutes as well.

Legixn gets way more confusing in the second season.

 

[Xeno]

Yeah, if anything, being sympathetic of Doom is much more appropriate. Doom has been varying degrees of sympathetic for decades now. It may be a little problematic, but no more problematic than countless other "lets cheer the charismatic ruthless villain protagonist" stories. Whereas the Joker. . . is usually either a spree killer or a nihilistic terrorist. Cheering him on is a lot more like cheering on a school shooter.

This is part of why I *really* didn't like Venom. It wasn't just turning a brain-eating psychopath into an "anti-hero", but it was doing so while framing it as a "Wouldn't it be nice to just kill anyone you didn't like?" indulgent fantasy. Comedic sociopathy can work, even when murderous. . . but its really easy to slip into apologia and wish fulfillment at the same time.

My (very) unpopular opinion is that several "heroes" fall into the remorseless, psychotic killer category. Wolverine, Hulk and Punisher have all committed more than their share of brutal murders while still being portrayed as heroic or at least justified in their actions. They are wish-fulfilment characters who leave death and chaos in their wake without facing real consequences. Most fans enthusiastically embrace these characters and their murderous behavior.

I've never been a fan of ultra-violent characters, however, because I can't see how they differ from villains. All three have ready-made excuses. Hulk can't or won't control his anger. Logan is animalistic by nature and due to torture. Punisher is a serial killer motivated by revenge. But those are just excuses, crafted to persuade readers that the killers are either in the right or not responsible for their actions.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think the first season of Fargo was phenomenal and both seasons of Legion were very good.

Hawley has talent, but I'm concerned that, based on what he has said and his previous work and the fact that he started the script with Fox, that his script may not be the faithful adaptation that we all want.

 

[Dark Raven]

My (very) unpopular opinion is that several "heroes" fall into the remorseless, psychotic killer category. Wolverine, Hulk and Punisher have all committed more than their share of brutal murders while still being portrayed as heroic or at least justified in their actions. They are wish-fulfilment characters who leave death and chaos in their wake without facing real consequences. Most fans enthusiastically embrace these characters and their murderous behavior.

I've never been a fan of ultra-violent characters, however, because I can't see how they differ from villains. All three have ready-made excuses. Hulk can't or won't control his anger. Logan is animalistic by nature and due to torture. Punisher is a serial killer motivated by revenge. But those are just excuses, crafted to persuade readers that the killers are either in the right or not responsible for their actions.

I don't see Hulk going to anger management therapy though, and sitting round in a group sharing his issues with others.

 

[Kuwolski]

I don't see Hulk going to anger management therapy though, and sitting round in a group sharing his issues with others.

I'd love to see Taika do something with that.

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't see Hulk going to anger management therapy though, and sitting round in a group sharing his issues with others.

You might see something like that in endgame.

 

[InCali]

I watched one episode, saw that it was written by someone on a crack & meth bender and gave up.

Hey, hey, hey...I just want to be very clear; I did "NOT" write Legion.

 

[8ulk87]

Shouldnt this thread be retired since the old Fox doesnt exist anymore and their planned movies wont be made (thankfully) ?

 

[GoblinScrier]

There is a small chance this script could be made into the MCU so maybe rename the thread?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I can rename it. Would something like Hawley's Doctor Doom work?

 

[Dark Raven]

I can rename it. Would something like Hawley's Doctor Doom work?

Hawley Doom or Dr Hawley. Or Dr Noah?

 

[Detective Conan]

I can rename it. Would something like Hawley's Doctor Doom work?

Yes. that would be fitting since this thread was created when the news was first announced with Hawley attached. I think it makes sense since this is Hawley’s project that may or may not happen depending on how interested Feige is in the project(we know he asked if Hawley if he was finished with the script which shows some interest).

So I think there’s a good chance the project gets a revival with Marvel Studios. The Russos have expressed interest in the project and they’re close with Feige and could vouch for the project to get made.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Renamed. If this happens, Hawley may get credit even if they hire other people to alter it or whatever anyway. So I agree, it fits.

 

[8ulk87]

I doubt any of the pre Disney Fox planned movies will get made.

Every single of them will get thrown in the bin and thats a good thing.

Deadpool is the only character that continues and im sure Deadpool 3 will be much different than it would be if Fox didnt get bought by Disney.

There is no way they re gonna use the same script and i dont think Feige will decide to make a Dr Doom movie in the first place.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You may be right in the end, but too early to tell at this point. We know nothing about their plans for Phase 4, Doom, the FF, the X-Men, etc. So the Hawley script may get re-purposed or tossed. We don't know.

 

[Detective Conan]

Prediction: Kevin Feige will re-purpose the Doctor Doom film into a 10-episode mini-series on Disney Plus, and he'll ask Noah Hawley to be the showrunner. The series will take its inspiration from Ed Brubaker's 'Books of Doom' and follow the rise of Victor Von Doom to power in Latveria, and this will only happen after Doom is established in the MCU. This is literally the only way I ever see this project getting off the ground(unless Joker turns out to be a critical and commercial hit enough that Feige changes his mind, and gives it the big screen treatment instead). Short of that, I ain't seeing Feige doing a Von Doom film.

The only reason the Noah Hawley Doom was a thing in the first place was because of Fox's past incompetency's put them in the unenviable position where they had pretty much tarnished the FF brand enough that the prospect of them losing the rights was very likely. So the Doom film was pretty much the cheapest and desperate alternative to holding onto the license without the risk of losing money on yet another proper(and expensive) Fantastic Four film. If not for the buyout, Fox likely would of used the Doom film as a way to reboot the FF franchise again.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I actually could see a Doom series on Disney+ BEFORE an FF film or Doom's intro into the films.

It would be a great way to show that the streaming content will cross over into the films, it builds up Doom into something the audience will know before and it would be a product that after he's made his appearance in the films would almost force many to buy into the service to get the background for this character if they didn't watch the show first. It's kinda win-win all around.

 

[psylockolussus]

I doubt any of the pre Disney Fox planned movies will get made.

Every single of them will get thrown in the bin and thats a good thing.

Deadpool is the only character that continues and im sure Deadpool 3 will be much different than it would be if Fox didnt get bought by Disney.

There is no way they re gonna use the same script and i dont think Feige will decide to make a Dr Doom movie in the first place.

Sounds great to me.

 

[Pennywise]

Hawley confirmed he had a meeting with Feige recently.

'Legion' Final Season Premiere: Noah Hawley Breaks Down the Beginning of the End

I did sit down with [Marvel Studios' president] Kevin Feige recently and I said that I look at myself as sort of the Marvel R&D department. I know the genre can do all of these amazing things that [the Marvel Cinematic Universe] is doing, but my feeling is, what else can we do with it? Can we make it surreal? Can we make it musical? Not as a gimmick, but all of these techniques are about putting you into the subjective experience of these characters."

Who knows what lies ahead in the final season of Legion, but Hawley casually referencing a recent meeting with Marvel mastermind Kevin Feige should make at least one thing clear: even as he's putting this particular story to rest, and even as he's in varying stages of development on Lucy in the Sky and Fargo season four, Hawley is still thinking about projects set in the superhero space. In 2017 at Comic-Con, Hawley announced he was writing a Doctor Doom movie for Fox; those hopes remain alive, according to Hawley, even after Disney's recent acquisition of Fox and its many Marvel properties, Doom included.

"What was interesting to me originally about the X-Men universe is these are movies that started in a concentration camp," says Hawley, explaining his interest in the superhero genre. "They are clearly concerned with the true nature of human evil. It's not just some cosmic force bringing about the end of the world. That's what was always interesting to me here. Let's explore through this genre the every day evils we do to each other, the ways we hurt each other and take each other for granted. There are different stories and characters who will bring about other themes. I wrote a script about Doctor Doom, an antihero story I really like, and we're still talking about making it. I'm trying to get out from under this movie I made and this last season of Legion, and Fargo is coming back up… but for better or worse, these are the stories we want to hear right now. I think you can bury your head in the sand and say, 'That's unfortunate for our culture because they're simplistic.' Some people say that. I don't look at it that way. I think they are morality tales on a larger scale, and it's better to be part of the conversation than pretend the conversation isn't happening."

 

[Detective Conan]

Noah Hawley talks a more about his take on the film in comparison to his take on David from the Legion show.

You wrote a Doctor Doom movie for Fox that may or may not see the light of day. Did you learn anything about writing for a villain on that script that you could apply to David?

It’s always interesting to think about these words, “heroes” and “villains.” There’s a trope that you’re only as good as your villain, which I think is true, but I think it also means that the show or the movie is only good if the villain is dynamic and compelling and interesting and comprehensible. So much of what you face in the escalation of these movies in the last 15 years has been ... you end up with a villain who wants to destroy the world ... why? It never really makes much sense. But you need the scale of the destroying the world in order to justify the scale of the action required to stop him.

What I’m concerned with, in Legion especially, is the nature of everyday evils, the evils that we do to each other. We projected [the drama] onto a global scale, but really it’s about what David does to Syd, and what his parents did to him. That’s where the real evil, those problems, are addressed: in actual human interactions. Doctor Doom is a bit of a different character just because he’s the king of his own country and he wasn’t my way into the story, he’s an enigmatic character, but the movie, if we make it, if it’s done right, there is a compelling story there about this guy who it’s not clear if he’s a villain yet.

What I appreciate about the X-Men is, if you look at Magneto’s character, he’s a guy who can and does walk on both sides of the moral spectrum. Sometimes he’s working on the side of good and sometimes he’s working on the side of evil and that seems more realistic then just the mustache twirling villain.

If Doctor Doom wasn’t the main character of your Doctor Doom movie, who was?

Wouldn’t you like to know? Maybe we’ll make it. He’s not our way into the movie, let’s just put it that way. That doesn’t mean he’s not the star of the movie, just not our way in.

I like what I’m hearing but I’m not holding my breath on the idea of this movie ever happening. A Disney Plus show is far more likely at this point, imo.

 

[Xeno]

Noah Hawley talks a more about his take on the film in comparison to his take on David from the Legion show.


I like what I’m hearing but I’m not holding my breath on the idea of this movie ever happening. A Disney Plus show is far more likely at this point, imo.

If Doctor Doom wasn’t the main character of your Doctor Doom movie, who was?

Wouldn’t you like to know? Maybe we’ll make it. He’s not our way into the movie, let’s just put it that way. That doesn’t mean he’s not the star of the movie, just not our way in.

From what I've read about Hawley's script, the main character is a female reporter who goes to Latveria to do a profile piece on Doom. She goes with the dictator on his various exploits, becoming closer to him while not being sure whether he is the hero of the piece or the villain.

It sounds fairly cliche to me. It might make a good basis for a Disney+ show, but as movie I'd give the concept a hard pass.

 

[-JKR-]

From what I've read about Hawley's script, the main character is a female reporter who goes to Latveria to do a profile piece on Doom. She goes with the dictator on his various exploits, becoming closer to him while not being sure whether he is the hero of the piece or the villain.

It sounds fairly cliche to me. It might make a good basis for a Disney+ show, but as movie I'd give the concept a hard pass.

LOOOOOOOL

Based on what, dude? That it's not your typical run of the mill Marvel Studios film? The bias is getting more and more ridiculous.

 

[Pennywise]

Noah Hawley talks a more about his take on the film in comparison to his take on David from the Legion show.


I like what I’m hearing but I’m not holding my breath on the idea of this movie ever happening. A Disney Plus show is far more likely at this point, imo.

I said this in the Fantastic Four thread but I can see Feige being impressed by the script for Doom, and wanting to bring Hawley into the MCU.