Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

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So you're telling me than after aliens in New York, Thanos, the snap, Eternals, Celestials, Sokovia Accords, Avengers and all the other superheroes/supervillains being well known to the public - mutants who could just be anybody will be the last thing on everyone's radar aka "new phenomenon". Yeah good luck selling that.

All that stuff literally makes it *less* of a problem. Any random mutant who decided to go bad in between 2012 and the emergence of the mutant race would just be written off as another mysterious super-powered individual with no one (except mutants like Xavier and Magneto, and maybe people like Nick Fury) realizing that there was any more common thread between them than there is between Spider-man and Ant-man.

All we're talking about here is:

1) For most of history, mutants are very small in number and thus automatically get written off as not real by people who don't have to deal with them directly.

2) Through more recent history, mutants are still very small in number but slowly increasing and are not greatly inclined to draw attention to themselves. But the ones who do choose to use their powers publicly can either be recruited by SHIELD or a similar organization which either keeps their existence secret or just pretends they're nothing different from other super-powered people (or doesn't know better) or they can just let the whole world assume they're no different from other super-powered people, as pretty much everyone naturally would do.

3) Xavier upon noticing a major uptick in the mutant population eventually publishes his research about what mutants are and where they come from and how they're different from other super-powered people. Panic ensues.

Number 3 can happen at pretty much any point the MCU wishes it to without ever having to change a thing about numbers one and two.
 
If Marvel Studios really want to convince us that "mutants are just a new phenomenon" after 16 to 30 other Marvel ips got their own movie or series by the time Marvel Studios' X-Men is released - when we know if they had the rights from the beginning they would have been introduced very early, like phase 1 early. Okay. But thats just going to be a hard sell for me. You can do that with Nuhumans easily but not the mutants.
 
It's not a hard sell for me at all. I highly doubt it will be for the vast majority of the general audience, either, since they accepted Ant-man and various others without even blinking. YMMV.
 
I mean, it took 24 years after Namor's first appearance before mutants were introduced into the Marvel Comics Universe. So if mutants are introduced within the next decade we're actually ahead of that :D
 
Yeah, most of the audience is not going to think that deeply about it. The idea of superpowered people operating in secret is a trope the MCU has relied on historically anyway. It's not a tough sell by any means.
 
I think the scary thing about Mutants is that it could literally be anybody. Your kids, your neighbor, or close friends. Its scary to think that just about anybody around you could kill you at any moment if they are bad people or just don't know how to control their powers. I don't think it will be that hard to show how scary/difficult the Mutant problem could be.
 
I mean, it took 24 years after Namor's first appearance before mutants were introduced into the Marvel Comics Universe. So if mutants are introduced within the next decade we're actually ahead of that :D
Well Namor if I'm not mistaken can't even get his own film without Universal distributing it, so there's that. So their solution - if rumours are true, he would be a Black Panther supporting character in his first mcu appearance.

And Is Namor similar to the X-Men that needed to be in phase 1 if Marvel Studios had all the rights in the beginning? No right, thats why he's being introduced in phase 4.
 
Exactly. And one thing that has never really been followed up on in the MCU - We know for a fact that SHIELD was aware of powered individuals before the events of Iron Man. And Fury's comments imply more than just Captain Marvel. It's very simple IMO to say that mutants have always been here but now their numbers are growing and they're coming out of the shadows.
This is the way. There doesn't even need to be a hardlined "explanation" for it. There could theories, hypotheses, in-universe, but nobody truly knows where mutants came from, how, or why suddenly there's so many. It's true to the themes of this franchise, and it helps set the eerie mood necessary for mutants-- Nobody knowing WHY.

Mutants simply are, and they've always been with us.
 
It's not a hard sell for me at all. I highly doubt it will be for the vast majority of the general audience, either, since they accepted Ant-man and various others without even blinking. YMMV.
Ant-man and various others aren't a specie like mutants and we saw the origin story of Scott Lang and they had flashbacks for the original Ant-Man. The ones like Eternals have been in the beginning of the timeline and we know how they kept their identity so long.

For the mutants, unless they've been brainwashed in everybody's head. I don't buy mutants around the world, without any association to the X-Men, have all managed to be under the radar this long.
 
Well Namor if I'm not mistaken can't even get his own film without Universal distributing it, so there's that. So their solution - if rumours are true, he would be a Black Panther supporting character in his first mcu appearance.

And Is Namor similar to the X-Men that needed to be in phase 1 if Marvel Studios had all the rights in the beginning? No right, thats why he's being introduced in phase 4.

Whether he's getting a movie or not has absolutely nothing to do with anything. The point is that Marvel Comics was publishing superhero stories for decades before they introduced the X-men. Those stories are still considered part of the history of the marvel comics universe and yet mutants, the audience eventually found out, had *always* been part of that universe, despite the public never knowing they existed until shortly before the X-men debuted. Those stories have never been a problem for the comics and I've never once heard an X-Men fan complain about the fact that mutants existed for most of history but were only publicly known halfway through the 20th century. (Later, really, considering Marvel's sliding time scale.)

Ant-man and various others aren't a specie like mutants and we saw the origin story of Scott Lang and they had flashbacks for the original Ant-Man. The ones like Eternals have been in the beginning of the timeline and we know how they kept their identity so long.

For the mutants, unless they've been brainwashed in everybody's head. I don't buy mutants around the world, without any association to the X-Men, have all managed to be under the radar this long.

First of all, they will have flashbacks for historical mutants. You can pretty much consider that guaranteed.

Secondly, there is *no* 'so long' here. Historical mutants could be all over the history books in the form of mythological characters, local legends, old stories, etc. The point here is nothing more than that nobody in centuries past would've ever heard the word 'mutant' and nobody in the modern era would take old stories about ancient and powerful beings seriously. Because we automatically view old stories as made-up or at the very least heavily embellished.

The only time period where there would be a genuine possibility of things coming out is over the few decades of time we've actually followed in the MCU because people are more open to the possibility of strange beings existing and the quality of evidence is high enough that no one can poo poo their existence as a hoax. But as I already said, that also gives an automatic cover to any random mutant who shows off their powers because the public is already conditioned to see super-powers as a thing which some people just have, not a sign of a coming Homo Superior subspecies.

And thirdly, Mutants aren't an 'entire species', they're humans with an x-gene. Which means they *don't* have to maintain a purely mutant population to exist. It's entirely possible there've only been a hundred or so mutants scattered throughout the reaches of human history, only a few hundred more by Xavier's generation. (IIRC, in the comics the entire mutant population on the planet was supposed to be somewhere in the low thousands before the late 90s mutant boom, and that's a couple of generations after Xavier.)

Compare that to the 7 billion regular people on the planet today, apparently hundreds of which are already known to have powers of some kind or other from all sorts of different sources. Take into account the fact that a significant number of mutant powers are fundamentally hard to notice, that some mutant powers are so dangerous they could easily lead to accidental suicide, and that other mutant powers are so dangerous they can easily do what they like without leaving witnesses. Take into account that many mutants have no powers at all, just physical deformities that make them outcasts and heavily motivate them to live in hiding. And add on top of that the fact that almost all of the actual specific characters I can think of who are older than Xavier's generation have always been portrayed as people who chose to exist in the shadows 90% of the time, anyway.

It would not be strange to me at all that only a handful (a few dozen at most) out of several hundred mutants is actually in any way known as having powers, and all of them can easily be brought under the umbrella of 'people the public thinks are just the same kind of super-people as all the other super-people' or 'secret operatives working for organizations like SHIELD and HYDRA that the public doesn't know about'. Especially since many, maybe most of them wouldn't even know *themselves* what a mutant is or that they are one. Because not every mutant has the intellect of Xavier and Magneto, so they won't know what a mutant is until someone tells them, just like everyone else.
 
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Well Namor if I'm not mistaken can't even get his own film without Universal distributing it, so there's that. So their solution - if rumours are true, he would be a Black Panther supporting character in his first mcu appearance.

And Is Namor similar to the X-Men that needed to be in phase 1 if Marvel Studios had all the rights in the beginning? No right, thats why he's being introduced in phase 4.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. What I said had nothing to do with Namor as a character. What I meant was that Namor's first appearance started the Marvel comics 616 universe in 1939 in the same way that Iron Man's first appearance started the MCU in 2008. After Namor's first appearance it would still be another 24 years of real time before the first mention of mutants in that same universe, with many more comics per year than there have been movies per year in the MCU. It's only been 14 years since the MCU started, so we still have another decade to go and there'll still be less time between the start of the MCU and the first mention of mutants than there was between the start of the comics universe and the first mention of mutants there.
 
It is strange the mutants have managed to be this low key. We have seen 27 movies and 6 series.

So when they show up in their first feature film, I would just find it hard to believe that mutants are suddenly going to be a "new phenomenon" that would have plenty of humans being against this "new phenomenon" when there's been plenty of crazy super-powered people or aliens from phase 1 to 4. It sounds plot convenience to me.
 
It is strange the mutants have managed to be this low key. We have seen 27 movies and 5 series.

So when they show up in their first feature film, I would just find it hard to believe that this mutants are suddenly going to be a "new phenomenon" that would have plenty of humans being against this "new phenomenon" when there's been plenty of crazy super-powered people or aliens from phase 1 to 4. It sounds convenient writing to me.

And yet it's exactly the way Mutants were introduced in the comics. Which you do apparently like.
 
The mutants were introduced in the 60s in the same year or time as Avengers were formed. Not a decade later. Not after Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Blade to name a few were introduced in the comics.
 
The mutants were introduced in the 60s in the same year or time as Avengers were formed. Not a decade later. Not after Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Blade to name a few were introduced in the comics.

The Avengers were not the first generation of superheroes in the comics. Marvel Comics published superhero stories for two decades prior to the introduction of the X-Men and the Avengers. This has been said repeatedly in just the last couple of posts, so it's starting to look like you're deliberately ignoring facts that are inconvenient to your argument.
 
There’s a big difference between for eg Hulk being in the Avengers saving New York and your kid’s teacher/friend/babysitter having Hulk powers and the uncontrolled rage and collateral damage that can come with that. People are happy with many things as long as there is no risk of it being on their doorstep, which is a major part of the mutant issue.

If tons of people in your town suddenly had powers (unlike the relatively few superheroes) how safe would you feel? Any small argument could result in catastrophe. Superheroes are high profile but mutants in the general population outside of the X-Men are often just regular people trying to go about their day. Anyone could be a mutant and given the numbers of mutants over super-powered individuals, there is every likelihood you will cross paths with a mutant at some point.
 
Thats the thing, some mutants simply can't control their powers. The X-Men won't always be around to help every mutant. So for mutants to be under the radar this long, I'm just finding it hard to believe that, they were so low key all this time - and the moment X-Men get their mcu film, mutants are suddenly a uncontrollable new threat like as if they weren't around before.

like Marvel Studios could have fasttracked a X-Men movie for this year or before Deadpool gets writers/Fantastic Four gets a logo but they didn't.

brainwashing people that mutants didn't eXist isn't an impossible thing to do, Xpecially when they did that to Spider-Man. They could do it again even if its hundreds of mutants. Its a simple eXplanation why the mutants haven't been mentioned in any of the movies and series so far.
 
The mutants were introduced in the 60s in the same year or time as Avengers were formed. Not a decade later. Not after Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Blade to name a few were introduced in the comics.
Okay. And where were the mutants when Captain America, Bucky, Namor, Namora, Human Torch, Toro, Ka-Zar, Whizzer, Patriot, Miss America, Blazing Skull, Blonde Phantom, Destroyer, Kid Colt, Red Raven, Human Robot, Gorilla-Man, Marvel Boy, Jimmy Woo, Doctor Druid, etc. were running around?
 
Okay. And where were the mutants when Captain America, Bucky, Namor, Human Torch, Ka-Zar, Whizzer, Patriot, Miss America, Blazing Skull, Blonde Phantom, Destroyer, Kid Colt, Red Raven, Human Robot, Gorilla-Man, Marvel Boy, Jimmy Woo, Doctor Druid, etc. were running around?
Haven't read those comics. I'm not even familiar with some of those names
 
Haven't read those comics. I'm not even familiar with some of those names

But they are still the founding history of the Marvel Comics universe that exists today. The fact that you haven't read them isn't any more relevant than the fact that some random person out there hasn't watched any of the Iron Man movies.
 
But they are still the founding history of the Marvel Comics universe that exists today. The fact that you haven't read them isn't any more relevant than the fact that some random person out there hasn't watched any of the Iron Man movies.
Are Blonde Phantom, Kid colt, Blazing Skull, Human Robot, Red raven Marvel a listers that they need to be brought up in this diXcussion? Aren't those characters created when Marvel Comics was still Atlas Comics? The fact they don't even have a movie line up says everything. So I don't know why they are being mentioned in the first place.

Before the movies, the Marvel A listers were Spider-Man, the X-Men, F4, Captain America, Hulk. And if Marvel Studios had all the rights from the start, the X-Men would have been utilized at least in phase 1.

If you're cool that mutants are just coming out of their shell in phase 5. Okay cool. But we still don't know how they are introduced. And Marvel Studios could Peter Parker the mutants if they wanted to. You might not like it, it doesn't make it impossible.
 
Are Blonde Phantom, Kid colt, Blazing Skull, Human Robot, Red raven Marvel a listers that they need to be brought up in this diXcussion? Aren't those characters created when Marvel Comics was still Atlas Comics? The fact they don't even have a movie line up says everything. So I don't know why they are being mentioned in the first place.

Before the movies, the Marvel A listers were Spider-Man, the X-Men, F4, Captain America, Hulk. And if Marvel Studios had all the rights from the start, the X-Men would have been utilized at least in phase 1.

If you're cool that mutants are just coming out of their shell in phase 5. Okay cool. But we still don't know how they are introduced. And Marvel Studios could Peter Parker the mutants if they wanted to. You might not like it, it doesn't make it impossible.

'They don't have a movie' is still a ridiculous and totally irrelevant objection just like the last three times you said it.

They are being brought up because *every* complaint you make about the mutants being introduced as a new thing now *also* applies to how the mutants were originally introduced in the comics. They were never the first known heroes in the world. And they were always introduced decades after the world first began to learn about superheroes.
 
Are Blonde Phantom, Kid colt, Blazing Skull, Human Robot, Red raven Marvel a listers that they need to be brought up in this diXcussion? Aren't those characters created when Marvel Comics was still Atlas Comics? The fact they don't even have a movie line up says everything. So I don't know why they are being mentioned in the first place.
They were A-listers and B-listers in the '40s and '50s. The reason they're being brought up is because in the Marvel comics universe it wasn't an issue to introduce mutants after that universe had already been around with superheroes for 20+ years.
 
I'm hoping that the X-Men '97 revival will help take the pressure off the MCU at having to somehow capture the nostalgia of TAS and will free them up for a fresh take.
Hmm.

I think the reboot would be inspired by TAS (at least the coXtumes). I see them using the iconic theme. They aren't reviving a 90 cartoons for no reason.
 
Not sure why this is even an issue. Mutants have always been around and now their numbers are proliferating. End of story.

The comics handled this idea deftly. There was always a certain shame associated with mutation, so the ones who could hide their mutations, did.

When Xavier started recruiting and mobilizing mutants, it created the 'appearance' that they came out of nowhere. But the truth is, they were always there, just not as visible as they became when The X-Men were formed.

No need to overthink it. I guarantee the GA won't, and they make up 99.99999999% of the audience for an MCU X-Men movie.
 
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