Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

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It's near impossible for current Spidey to reach Raimi levels of event status. Those first 2 Raimi flicks were legit Avengers level. 02 Spidey is up there with TDK and Endgame in tickets sold here in the states if you exclude 3D. That's how big they were
 
Times have truly changed when the video game version of Spider-Man is now the big-ticket event for me and the live-action Spidey is about as momentous as a Saturday morning cartoon.

Remember when we had movie tie-in games? Now, I'd rather have a live action tie-in for Spider-Man PS4 haha.
 
though I've lost a bit of hype over Spider-man ps5 because of that dumb, dumb model change. wtf is up with that?
 
Yeah...he looks like Tom Holland now which diminishes my hype too.
 
It's not really comparable. Aside from just being one of the GOATs, Spider-Man 2 and the first movie had a level of hype and anticipation going into them that just isn't really replicable divorced from that time period.

It's in much the same way there have been Batman movies that made more money than 89, but still haven't quite recaptured just how huge a moment in mainstream culture getting a big budget Batman movie at all was at the time.
 
I think some people are selling the excitement for Raimi Spidey a bit short.

Some of you talk as if those films were hyped because they were the only major blockbuster superhero film franchise at that time. Whether superhero cinema was "developed" or not at that time is irrelevant. Superhero films aren't the only kind of "event" films. Raimi Spider-Man existed in the same era as the Matrix, Harry Potter, LOTR, the Bourne trilogy, Pirates of the Carribean, and the Star Wars Prequels, and was able to compete with those big franchises, unlike the X-Men films.

Also, Spider-Man wasn't the only pre-2008 superhero to make big money at the BO. The first two Superman films and the first three Batman films were some of the biggest blockbusters of their day.
 
It's sad to see people try to downplay how good the Raimi movies are by chalking it up to "nostalgia" or being "the only movies like that" at the time. Let me tell you, as someone who was alive and hyping those films as they were coming out, I assure you, there hasn't been a Spider-man film in the last 10 years to get anywhere near the amount of hype or recognition as those 3 films got. The first 2 in particular are well regarded because they were pure stories that showed what is possible when you get a passionate director and great cast to do one of these films. They told a story that resonated with young people, myself included, filled with themes and messages while also being a fantastic action spectacle. It has nothing to do with nostalgia, or it being what was popular, but everything to do with the fact that they are fantastic films. The 2nd being one of the best CBM's ever.
 
Let me clarify when I say that Spider-Man was the only comic book movie making real money, I was referring to post Returns and Forever.
 
Times have truly changed when the video game version of Spider-Man is now the big-ticket event for me and the live-action Spidey is about as momentous as a Saturday morning cartoon.

Remember when we had movie tie-in games? Now, I'd rather have a live action tie-in for Spider-Man PS4 haha.
Haha, why can't they get both right at the same time lol.
 
Indeed. If I was running Netflix this would be my policy - 10 movies a year, 2 animated films, 12 TV series. That's it. None of this 'let's just buy everything and see what works' crap. Have some standards, sift through the crap, find the best, and make each one an event.

Devil's advocate: What if "sifting through the crap" is not actually possible in the way you describe? After all, Netflix can't see the future ( nor anyone else ), when they greenlight a show or movie, they do so before it is produced. At that stage of the game, what if you can't reasonably tell the next Stranger Things or Orange is the New Black, from the next. . . well, something I can't name because it made no impression? *ahem* Sure, there may be some shows or movies where the concept is obviously terrible and creatives obviously out of their league. . . but I'm willing to bet that for the majority of them? A good show and a bad show look quite similar until after at least most of the production is done, and you can see whether things are coming together or not. And by the time most of the show is filmed, and half of it is edited and finished in post production? Its kind of too late to just can it.

Basically, the "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" model may very well be the only way to generate the quality successes, because film-making isn't a science, and nobody can really predict what will actually work on screen. . . or what will actually succeed with audiences. Which is the other looming issue: what if a pursuit of "quality" leads to *less* returns, because ten cheap productions that only have niche appeal still draw in more cumulative new and sustained viewers than one single expensive production? I doubt this is the case for a Stranger Things level megahit, but for stuff less broadly popular?
 
I don't think many. Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight maybe. Hawkeye could possibly get a season two if it's just featuring Kate Bishop with Renner making a guest appearance. She-Hulk could probably get a second season as well.

I'm more optimistic, but I suspect it would be better to view them as "sequels" rather than "seasons". If Hawkeye, or Falcon and the Winter Soldier, gets a second "season", it won't be because the story gets continued, but because the writers room has a new story they want to tell. Or basically, think of each show as equivalent to a movie.
 
The Raimi Spidey movies were huge when they came out for sure, the first Spidey movie had that cultural impact being the first big-budget movie featuring a big character pretty much everybody had at least some passing familiarity with and was the public at large's first real time experiencing the character's overview. It was also a pretty uncynical colorful superhero movie at a time when it was probably needed most post 911 for some sort of catharsis, it was well-made and it made bank. The marketing was pretty big for the movie's too, between merchandise everywhere, video game tie-ins, TV spots galore, fast food promotions, clothing, costumes- it felt like a big event.

The hype rode off to SM2 which critically exceeded the first, then the hype levels were pretty unmatched for SM3 up to that point. When SM3 came out the franchise sort of came to a big thud in terms of the public's enthusiasm, I think. TDK came out the following year and blew open the can with capturing people's minds, and Iron Man also came out that year. Enthusiasm wasn't really captured again with the Webb movies as they were at once trying to emulate Nolan's Batman then deciding they want to emulate the MCU, but I think the reason the MCU version is more popular than the Webb version at least is it's inherent ties to the MCU.

Strip that away and I feel like the level of interest from the casual audience would be like the Webb movies again. Is it controversial to say the movie's are popular because they're riding off of the popularity of the current biggest movie franchise in the world? They're trying to make themselves intrinsically linked to one another so of course people invested in the MCU will enjoy seeing them and Spidey interacting with popular characters from that franchise. Far From Home made a billion coming out 2 months after the biggest movie of all time, it advertised itself as the next chapter, an epilogue to Endgame.

The audiences wanted to see him in the MCU because the MCU is hot, and it became a yearly staple over the last decade, but as a result Spidey is just a tiny cog in the machine feeding off of other characters who for all rights he shouldn't have to because he's Spidey and everybody knows and loves Spidey.

Spidey in the PS4 game exists in a world with a lot of other heroes yet he has the gravitas behind him there that the character deserves in an adaptation, he's the character we all know and love but the story does him justice.
 
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Devil's advocate: What if "sifting through the crap" is not actually possible in the way you describe? After all, Netflix can't see the future ( nor anyone else ), when they greenlight a show or movie, they do so before it is produced. At that stage of the game, what if you can't reasonably tell the next Stranger Things or Orange is the New Black, from the next. . . well, something I can't name because it made no impression? *ahem* Sure, there may be some shows or movies where the concept is obviously terrible and creatives obviously out of their league. . . but I'm willing to bet that for the majority of them? A good show and a bad show look quite similar until after at least most of the production is done, and you can see whether things are coming together or not. And by the time most of the show is filmed, and half of it is edited and finished in post production? Its kind of too late to just can it.

Basically, the "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" model may very well be the only way to generate the quality successes, because film-making isn't a science, and nobody can really predict what will actually work on screen. . . or what will actually succeed with audiences. Which is the other looming issue: what if a pursuit of "quality" leads to *less* returns, because ten cheap productions that only have niche appeal still draw in more cumulative new and sustained viewers than one single expensive production? I doubt this is the case for a Stranger Things level megahit, but for stuff less broadly popular?
This is true but also why the people making these decisions get paid so much.
 
Is it controversial to say the movie's are popular because they're riding off of the popularity of the current biggest movie franchise in the world?

Personally, I think so.

I mean, look at FFH. People brag about it being the most financially successful Spider-Man film, and yet...the film seemingly has little to no cultural resonance. Which leads me to believe that that film made the amount of money it did for the reasons you outlined.
 
I think a better example of riding off the coattails is Captain Marvel. I feel like that movie just came and went and somehow a billion dollars worth of people watched it. It did not make any kind of cultural impact unlike say Black Panther or Wonder Woman where you could feel those movies penetrating the social zeitgeist.
 
I think a better example of riding off the coattails is Captain Marvel. I feel like that movie just came and went and somehow a billion dollars worth of people watched it. It did not make any kind of cultural impact unlike say Black Panther or Wonder Woman where you could feel those movies penetrating the social zeitgeist.

Captain Marvel just came at the right time and on the right cliffhanger. We just had to know what came next after Infinity War and that was smart of Marvel to keep us hanging on.

I liked the movie a lot but yeah that was a textbook example of coattail riding.
 
Makes you wonder what Antman and the Wasp would’ve made had it not had an Infinity War boost lol
 
Captain Marvel just came at the right time and on the right cliffhanger. We just had to know what came next after Infinity War and that was smart of Marvel to keep us hanging on.

I liked the movie a lot but yeah that was a textbook example of coattail riding.
You can't coattail ride to a billion.
 
Io9's worst writer reporting the Sarah Shahi in Black Adam news as, "the actress known for Chicago Fire" hurt my soul. :hehe:
 
Makes you wonder what Antman and the Wasp would’ve made had it not had an Infinity War boost lol
I think the large gap between the release in the U.S and overseas hurt it too. We got the movie like a whole two months before some other countries did, if I'm not mistaken.
 
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