The Official PS4 Thread - Part 8

[Tron Bonne]

Nintendo and Sony worked together for years. I always assumed it was just Nintendo being shortsighted and greedy. They tried to undercut Sony by making a deal with Philips (Sony's archenemy). That always struck me as acting in rather bad faith.

That's a rather narrow view, and only looking at one side. It was said that Sony basically wanted full publishing rights to all games that would be released on the PlayStation, which was a CD add-on to the SNES. There's conflicting reports, too, on how much Nintendo was big into the idea of the PlayStation to begin with. I know some in the company have suggested that the original model for the PlayStation was very unimpressive and one of the reasons they felt disc technology wasn't right for gaming.

But you're right, on the other side, it has been said that Nintendo cut out Sony pretty quickly. There wasn't much discussion and allegedly Sony didn't even know about the deal until after it was done.

Of course, no one really knows for sure that doesn't work for both companies. But there are two sides to the coin.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

How does one recall that?

With either a magical mirror or Doc Brown's car

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Others have mentioned it since this post was made but Sony fought back hard and smart by developing a whole stable of quality 1st party games and remember Microsoft were also losing major 3rd party exclusives during this time. Many people were writing off Sony back then and they came back to level things off and put themselves in a position where they could take advantage if MS F'd up, which they decided to do totally. And within a year of that domination the execs have moved on and Spencer has set them back on a good path, while Sony have started getting complacent. Surely one day one of these companies will learn. Whoever learns 1st will dominate for a long time.

Microsoft had nowhere near the amount of exclusives that Sony had in the 6th generation going into the 7th generation where all those once 3rd party exclusive series on Ps2 were not exclusive to the Ps3 anymore. What exclusives are you even talking about that the 360 lost? Mass Effect 2, Bioshock 1, that's all that I can think of off the top of my head.

Yes Microsoft doesn't have as many 1st party titles or arguably even of as much quality but it didn't matter for them because they had way higher attachment rates than Sony did at the time. Several of Ps3's great 1st party titles combined didn't sell as much as Halo's 3 & 4.

But looking at your last statement about Phil Spencer I'm confused about what era you're talking about because he didn't step in till this year

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Epic cosplay

 

[zenith16]

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source:GI

 

[Iceman]

Microsoft had nowhere near the amount of exclusives that Sony had in the 6th generation going into the 7th generation where all those once 3rd party exclusive series on Ps2 were not exclusive to the Ps3 anymore. What exclusives are you even talking about that the 360 lost? Mass Effect 2, Bioshock 1, that's all that I can think of off the top of my head.

Yes Microsoft doesn't have as many 1st party titles or arguably even of as much quality but it didn't matter for them because they had way higher attachment rates than Sony did at the time. Several of Ps3's great 1st party titles combined didn't sell as much as Halo's 3 & 4.

But looking at your last statement about Phil Spencer I'm confused about what era you're talking about because he didn't step in till this year

I didn't say as many, just saying it was happening to everyone. 3rd party exclusives were disappearing all over the shop regardless who held them, and of course Sony suffered worst because they had the most. For a guy who bought a 360 early on and didn't keep up with gaming news (vast majority of gamers) they probably thought those 2 and Elder Scrolls might be Microsoft exclusive games and I've seen many people list between 1-3 of them as their all time favourite games. So it was still a significant loss when they all became multiplatform games even if Sony lost more.

I don't think there was a whole lot Sony could have done as the price to keep all those series exclusive would have kept going up as the 3rd parties saw how much revenue they would be missing out on.

And they had higher attachment rates but by letting go of (3rd party or producing their own 1st party) exclusive solo games almost altogether while their competitor strengthened massively in that area, they allowed the overall gap to close from when they were strong in both areas. If they'd followed suit with Sony and made a few 1st party solo games that could compete with Uncharted/God of War etc they probably would have maintained their early dominance through to the end of the generation.

Phil Spencer only since he was appointed which is after the X1 launch disaster! He's done a good rescue job since and gamers trust he has their interests at heart and knows the industry unlike the hopeless Don Mattrick.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I didn't say as many, just saying it was happening to everyone. 3rd party exclusives were disappearing all over the shop regardless who held them, and of course Sony suffered worst because they had the most. For a guy who bought a 360 early on and didn't keep up with gaming news (vast majority of gamers) they probably thought those 2 and Elder Scrolls might be Microsoft exclusive games and I've seen many people list between 1-3 of them as their all time favourite games. So it was still a significant loss when they all became multiplatform games even if Sony lost more.

I don't think there was a whole lot Sony could have done as the price to keep all those series exclusive would have kept going up as the 3rd parties saw how much revenue they would be missing out on.

And they had higher attachment rates but by letting go of (3rd party or producing their own 1st party) exclusive solo games almost altogether while their competitor strengthened massively in that area, they allowed the overall gap to close from when they were strong in both areas. If they'd followed suit with Sony and made a few 1st party solo games that could compete with Uncharted/God of War etc they probably would have maintained their early dominance through to the end of the generation.

Phil Spencer only since he was appointed which is after the X1 launch disaster! He's done a good rescue job since and gamers trust he has their interests at heart and knows the industry unlike the hopeless Don Mattrick.

It's true it was happening to both platforms, but most of the IPs that the Ps3 lost as exclusives were IPs that were exclusive to Ps2 and identified closely to that platform. All of the 360's IPs if I recall correctly were new of that generation.

I don't know all the fine details about it, but it was rumored that Ken Kutaragi was the reason the Ps3 last at least a couple exclusives. Take2 was interested in doing the timed exclusive thing with GTA4 an Ubisoft wanted AssCreed to be exclusive but Kutaragi's tardiness in response to them as well as the massive growing base of the 360 made them think twice. And eventually when it was all said and done yes they invested much more dollars and faith in their own studios to shell out amazing 1st party games, but that doesn't make me forget about all the other games that could've been exclusive, 3rd party or not. You know how much of a nut I am about Tekken.

I think the gap closed primarily because of 2009's slim model and price cut, and because the PlayStation brand is just stronger everywhere outside of Europe and the states. It's why even if the xbone eclipses the Ps4 in domestic sales, worldwide the Ps4 may already be the winner of this gen.

Phil Spencer didn't replace Don Mattrick, he replaced Marc Whitten. Phil Spencer is the leader of Xbox and Microsoft Studios but Mattrick was head of Interactive Entertainment, which I guess was its own separate division. No one may ever forget that infamous "stick with the 360" statement he made.

 

[Iceman]

It's true it was happening to both platforms, but most of the IPs that the Ps3 lost as exclusives were IPs that were exclusive to Ps2 and identified closely to that platform. All of the 360's IPs if I recall correctly were new of that generation.

I don't know all the fine details about it, but it was rumored that Ken Kutaragi was the reason the Ps3 last at least a couple exclusives. Take2 was interested in doing the timed exclusive thing with GTA4 an Ubisoft wanted AssCreed to be exclusive but Kutaragi's tardiness in response to them as well as the massive growing base of the 360 made them think twice. And eventually when it was all said and done yes they invested much more dollars and faith in their own studios to shell out amazing 1st party games, but that doesn't make me forget about all the other games that could've been exclusive, 3rd party or not. You know how much of a nut I am about Tekken.

I think the gap closed primarily because of 2009's slim model and price cut, and because the PlayStation brand is just stronger everywhere outside of Europe and the states. It's why even if the xbone eclipses the Ps4 in domestic sales, worldwide the Ps4 may already be the winner of this gen.

Phil Spencer didn't replace Don Mattrick, he replaced Marc Whitten. Phil Spencer is the leader of Xbox and Microsoft Studios but Mattrick was head of Interactive Entertainment, which I guess was its own separate division. No one may ever forget that infamous "stick with the 360" statement he made.

Tardiness?! Haha was that really part of it? t:t: The height of arrogance. In that case they deserved to lose them. But I don't understand why you're so personally bothered about losing exclusivity. It just seems you're always too concerned about the console war more so than anyone else here. It's one thing not being able to play a game any more that used to be multiplatform because someone has bought out the 3rd party rights (like RotR & SF5). This way the complaint is just about other people being able to play 'your' game. I'm a huge Tekken fan too, so are you going to be happy when I can't play it?

The slimmer model wasn't enough by itself. As you know early 360s were the most defective console in history by a very long way. So recovering from that with their own slimmer model that didn't have the same problems was much more significant than the positive effect of the slimmer PS3. And yes the PlayStation brand is stronger everywhere outside of US but that was a constant throughout, not a reason for any change in the relative sales over time.

Yeah but most people have never heard of that guy. Whoever was making X1's mistakes, it was Mattrick who was the face of them, and whoever is in charge now, it's Spencer who is the new face.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Eh, I think those exclusives would've been lost regardless of anything. Pie in the sky alternate timelines are nice to think about and all, but the industry was changing with focus on the west and budgets ballooning with HD development; 3rd parties going en mass multiplat was inevitable.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Tardiness?! Haha was that really part of it? t:t: The height of arrogance. In that case they deserved to lose them. But I don't understand why you're so personally bothered about losing exclusivity. It just seems you're always too concerned about the console war more so than anyone else here. It's one thing not being able to play a game any more that used to be multiplatform because someone has bought out the 3rd party rights (like RotR & SF5). This way the complaint is just about other people being able to play 'your' game. I'm a huge Tekken fan too, so are you going to be happy when I can't play it?

The slimmer model wasn't enough by itself. As you know early 360s were the most defective console in history by a very long way. So recovering from that with their own slimmer model that didn't have the same problems was much more significant than the positive effect of the slimmer PS3. And yes the PlayStation brand is stronger everywhere outside of US but that was a constant throughout, not a reason for any change in the relative sales over time.

Yeah but most people have never heard of that guy. Whoever was making X1's mistakes it was Mattrick who was the face of them, and whoever is in charge now, it's Spencer who is the new face.

Well, I can see what you're saying there. But the whole "fear of losing a 3rd party exclusive" didn't appear out of thin air. If a game that is announced exclusive to the Ps3 ends up becoming not, it devalues the Ps3. It is no longer the platform required for being able to play said game. It is also why MGS4 was the Ps3's first killer app, and back then the rumors went over 9,000 about it going to 360. But I see your point, lately video games have kinda became my life which is bad because I need to find other things to do. In the case of sf5 and rotr, both are their own individual situations because microsoft is publishing rotr and sony is helping to fund sf5 (we have yet to hear if they'll actually publish it though). rotr is exclusive because microsoft wants something uncharted like on xbone (even though they'd still HAVE rotr on xbone if it wasn't exclusive...) but instead of making their own IP, they take an IP that has always been multiplatform and make it exclusive. I don't care much about it since I never cared about tomb raider, but for those who were pissed off, I'm not gonna tell them to get over it.

Perhaps the price cut and the slim were not enough, but every year up until that point, the media gave ultimate bias to the 360. Everyone laughed at the Ps3 with its price tag, its blu ray player, and it having "no games." It wasn't until 2009 I believe that the Ps3 reached parity with the 360, in terms of popularity at least within the media. And even though during last gen the Ps3 was outselling the 360 everywhere else, it still wasn't enough for the Ps3 to outdo the 360 in terms of worldwide sales. I guess that's just how strong the 360 was selling in the U.S.

I know man, I'm just saying. no one's gonna forget the "stick with the 360" line. it's almost synonymous with all the drm policies and the "always watching" stuff.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I start wondering if Japan is going through an existential crisis or something. No one wants to have sex, no one is buying consoles, WTF is going on over there.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I start wondering if Japan is going through an existential crisis or something. No one wants to have sex, no one is buying consoles, WTF is going on over there.

People want to have sex, they just don't want to have the babies that go along with. I think the consoles not selling is just how the rise of handheld and mobile has made the experience less appealing. The average household there is small, and generally they are much more a commuting society. It's really not that freak an occurrence

 

[terry78]

People want to have sex, they just don't want to have the babies that go along with. I think the consoles not selling is just how the rise of handheld and mobile has made the experience less appealing. The average household there is small, and generally they are much more a commuting society. It's really not that freak an occurrence

Thank God we don't have that problem.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I start wondering if Japan is going through an existential crisis or something. No one wants to have sex, no one is buying consoles, WTF is going on over there.

tron bonne already said it, japan doesn't care about consoles anymore, it's all about the handheld/mobile now.

 

[Iceman]

Isn't there protection nowadays?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Isn't there protection nowadays?

Yeah, they have protection. I mean, people are having sex, but the population scare is more about less and less of them getting married and/or starting a family. A lot of it, I think, is attribute to the work culture they've built.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

where is this news about japan and sex coming from? when did this happen?

 

[Tron Bonne]

It's been happening steadily other the last decade or so. I watch NHK World, so that's where I get a lot of information about it. Just google about Japan declining birthrate, sure you'll find something. It's really not just a Japanese problem, though. Most of Asia, outside China, have been seeing declines in birthrate. South Korea is actually much lower than Japan is currently.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It's been happening steadily other the last decade or so. I watch NHK World, so that's where I get a lot of information about it. Just google about Japan declining birthrate, sure you'll find something. It's really not just a Japanese problem, though. Most of Asia, outside China, have been seeing declines in birthrate. South Korea is actually much lower than Japan is currently.

well I think you mean China, and India. Or did you just mean regular Asia and not the sub continent.

Anyways, wow. I didn't know japan was dealing with that.

make babies people!!!

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, they have protection. I mean, people are having sex, but the population scare is more about less and less of them getting married and/or starting a family. A lot of it, I think, is attribute to the work culture they've built.

Oh I was kind of making a bad joke but I'd be interested to read about that. Any idea what the birthrate is over there?

It's been happening steadily other the last decade or so. I watch NHK World, so that's where I get a lot of information about it. Just google about Japan declining birthrate, sure you'll find something. It's really not just a Japanese problem, though. Most of Asia, outside China, have been seeing declines in birthrate. South Korea is actually much lower than Japan is currently.

I haven't kept up to date but if that 1 child rule for China was still in effect there wouldn't be a whole lot of room for it to decline further!

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

anybody remotely interested in getting dc? I kinda want it now if I can get it at a good price.

 

[Tron Bonne]

well I think you mean China, and India. Or did you just mean regular Asia and not the sub continent.

Anyways, wow. I didn't know japan was dealing with that.

make babies people!!!

No, I meant Asia. I guess India is part of Asia, though.

Oh I was kind of making a bad joke but I'd be interested to read about that. Any idea what the birthrate is over there?

Couldn't tell you off the top of my head, no.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

No, I meant Asia. I guess India is part of Asia, though.

it is. you don't have to guess, man.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Japan's fertility rate is 1.41, compared to the US' 1.88. Fears are that it will continue to drop.

South Korea actually also has a serious birth rate issue, but it gets much less attention. Japan's crisis on account of being the third biggest economy in the world is obviously going to have a bigger impact.

Asia is generally divided into South Asia (India, Pakistan, etc), East Asia (China, Japan, the Koreas) and Southeast Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc). And there's also Central Asia, and... well, Russia.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I guess I don't.