Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[Deck Rickard]

The very beginning? It is Lex giving the "Bell has been rung" speech from BvS

Right, okay. Makes sense. You really have to hand it to Snyder. He starts and ends this trailer with dialogue from the two WORST versions of DC’s most iconic villains and yet somehow people are hailing this thing like it’s magnificent (even I’m somewhat on the bandwagon a bit; I’m not convinced the movie will be good but I’ll definitely watch it).

 

[Erzengel]

Snyder fans will watch this. I'm wondering if they are going to have it on repeat just to increase the number of minutes watched for Nielson.

Comic book fans in general will watch it because they are comic book fans.

General audience, it'd have to have some serious positive buzz to make anyone want to watch a 4 hour movie. However, Netflix mentioned that 26.4M people watched the Irishman and Neilson reported that 14.9M people watched WW84 in the first week.

 

[The Shape]

This is what I don't understand from some of the fans that think this will open doors to more Snyder movies or influenced Snyder spinoffs. What has changed since 2016? I think some of them think people are just are going to suddenly appreciate MOS & BvS because his JL is being released.

I think most rational fans realize and accept this as a "last hurrah" and closing chapter of the Snyder films.

 

[Erzengel]

I think most rational fans realize and accept this as a "last hurrah" and closing chapter of the Snyder films.

Most of the people in the Snyder thread seem to feel that way, but I've been hearing "wait a few years and people will look back fondly on these movies" since 2016.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

They say that about every Snyder film since watchmen. Every film of his is “the next Blade Runner”. It’s beyond tiresome.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don’t remember anyone saying that about Sucker Punch

 

[Ninjablade]

It's been almost 10 years since MOS came out, I can't say it comes across as if people are going any easier on that film than they would've in 2013.

In my personal experience, it's almost as if people like it less, but on a more grander scale I only see the same kind of "meh" reaction it's been getting since release. I haven't watched it in it's entirety since it came out though. Maybe I'll like it more, who knows. I think I'm going to watch all of them again leading up to the Snyder Cut.

 

[metaphysician]

On that note, did the really dedicated Snyder cult emerge after Man of Steel? Or was it mostly formed as a self-conscious backlash to BvS getting mauled critically? My fandom activity was mostly on hiatus between TDKR and Matt Reeves coming aboard The Batman so I missed out on that chapter.

I am inclined to say that it formed after Man of Steel, it just didn't clearly self-identify as a *Snyder* fandom/cult specifically until BvS. Man of Steel was still sort of seen as a continuation of the Nolan artistic style, and thus carried over a lot of the older sets of DC and Nolan fans. . . but it definitely picked up a new and vocal segment of fans who approved specifically because it combined Nolan-esque tone with the grim amoral power fantasy that would later be the Snyder signature. What BvS did was strip away the remaining appearance of being anything but a pure Snyder work, thus making it more unambiguous that when audiences/critics/etc rejected BvS, they were rejecting Snyder specifically.

 

[metaphysician]

I really can't wait to see WB trying to explain this movie's success in HBOMax.

"We're very happy with the numbers! We won't release them but let's say they're where we wanted them."

Being fair, that isn't entirely unreasonable. What exactly constitutes "good numbers" for a streaming release is still almost entirely voodoo. Its not like with movies or traditional TV, where box office and ratings allow for apples-to-apples comparisons. With a streaming release, the analogue would be. . . what? Simultaneous first day viewers? Total viewers? Percent change in subscription rates? Subscriber retention rates at X months later? User feedback reviews?

 

[metaphysician]

Anyone else anticipating a very angry shift from ‘Critics don’t matter, no one cares!’ To caring very much and responding very aggressively to bad reviews?

Is that really even a shift? No one whose actually indifferent to critical response ever posts loud "They don't matter!" statements. Those are just two different stages of the same "Critics are the enemy, attack" philosophy.

Now, if the reviews came in as surprisingly good, *then* you would see a shift, with critics suddenly mattering.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's been almost 10 years since MOS came out, I can't say it comes across as if people are going any easier on that film than they would've in 2013.

In my personal experience, it's almost as if people like it less, but on a more grander scale I only see the same kind of "meh" reaction it's been getting since release. I haven't watched it in it's entirety since it came out though. Maybe I'll like it more, who knows. I think I'm going to watch all of them again leading up to the Snyder Cut.

I have never been worried about whether or not popular culture has been more kind to a thing I like, honestly. Perfect example being Spider-Man 3. Not my favorite of the series, but I really like it. I liked it in 2007 when everyone piled on it and it was fun to mock. I liked it during the TASM years when everyone seemed to act like those movies were always bad. I still like it now. I think we get way too wrapped up in what others think. If something makes you happy, who cares if people mock it with memes.

 

[henzINNIT]

I have never been worried about whether or not popular culture has been more kind to a thing I like, honestly. Perfect example being Spider-Man 3. Not my favorite of the series, but I really like it. I liked it in 2007 when everyone piled on it and it was fun to mock. I liked it during the TASM years when everyone seemed to act like those movies were always bad. I still like it now. I think we get way too wrapped up in what others think. If something makes you happy, who cares if people mock it with memes.

Hell yeah. I gave it a 7/10 on release and stood firm. I love that delightful nonsense. Witnessing the tides change on the Raimi series through reboots and such has been an interesting one. I remember it was super heated around TASM2 time and things really hit the fan on the old imdb forums when it came out.

 

[The Batman]

On that note, did the really dedicated Snyder cult emerge after Man of Steel? Or was it mostly formed as a self-conscious backlash to BvS getting mauled critically?

The latter.

But from my experience on this board, MOS still had people who were (IMO, overly) defensive, if not about Snyder, then about the film.

 

[batfreakforever]

The people who think this Snyder Cut won't get an option for a sequel or a streaming follow up if this is successful are not being realistic because this 4 year old movie got 70 mil given to the original director because of a worldwide demand in support of Snyder's original vision. The theatrical release wasn't a success but after it failed it was still given more money, reshoots and added scenes with new and old actors returning to complete Snyders cut. There is nothing but love and appreciation for Snyder from fans, his casts and crew and studio's keep giving him money. The haters are living in a dream world. This cut isn't for them. Its for Snyder and his fans for his world and vision for the DCEU. Every director in the DCEU have love and respect for his vision and want to play in the world he created for these iconic characters.

You dont pump another 70 mil and do all this hard work to restore his massive 4 hour original vision and also introduce new characters into the DCEU then say sorry fans this is a success but nothing will continue which is BS. AT and T didn't pump JL back up to not be a success and continue. The studio knows he has more movies planned before they green lit this cut. This isn't just a few scenes added back in with a few more minutes. This is a 4 hour restoration of the original vision. The haters of Snyder are just upset that Snyder gets to restore his vision with a chance he could continue. Hate away because look where years of hating on Snyder, his movies and his fans have gotten the haters. Absolutely nowhere. Us DCEU fans now have 4 new hours of uncompromising Snyder. Batfleck came back to Batman not just for this film but the flash movie too and Letos Joker is even came back after all the supposed hate for Snyder and his vision. So yeah a follow up is not impossible. The Snyder haters are not winning at all. BVS is even being restored to its original IMAX version for home video.

 

[Erzengel]

The people who think this Snyder Cut won't get an option for a sequel or a streaming follow up if this is successful are not being realistic because this 4 year old movie got 70 mil given to the original director because of a worldwide demand in support of Snyder's original vision. The theatrical release wasn't a success but after it failed it was still given more money, reshoots and added scenes with new and old actors returning to complete Snyders cut. There is nothing but love and appreciation for Snyder from fans, his casts and crew and studio's keep giving him money. The haters are living in a dream world. This cut isn't for them. Its for Snyder and his fans for his world and vision for the DCEU. Every director in the DCEU have love and respect for his vision and want to play in the world he created for these iconic characters.

You dont pump another 70 mil and do all this hard work to restore his massive 4 hour original vision and also introduce new characters into the DCEU then say sorry fans this is a success but nothing will continue which is BS. AT and T didn't pump JL back up to not be a success and continue. The studio knows he has more movies planned before they green lit this cut. This isn't just a few scenes added back in with a few more minutes. This is a 4 hour restoration of the original vision. The haters of Snyder are just upset that Snyder gets to restore his vision with a chance he could continue. Hate away because look where years of hating on Snyder, his movies and his fans have gotten the haters. Absolutely nowhere. Us DCEU fans now have 4 new hours of uncompromising Snyder. Batfleck came back to Batman not just for this film but the flash movie too and Letos Joker is even came back after all the supposed hate for Snyder and his vision. So yeah a follow up is not impossible. The Snyder haters are not winning at all. BVS is even being restored to its original IMAX version for home video.

Most of the actors are busy if not for this yea but the next year. Gal Gadot has 3 movies even before WW3. Even if JL is successful, the earliest a sequel or spinoff would be out would be 2023, which is generous or probably 2024. How does a series or movie in 2024 help AT&T get streaming subscriptions after the Snyder Cut?

 

[batfreakforever]

Most of the actors are busy if not for this yea but the next year. Gal Gadot has 3 movies even before WW3. Even if JL is successful, the earliest a sequel or spinoff would be out would be 2023, which is generous or probably 2024. How does a series or movie in 2024 help AT&T get streaming subscriptions after the Snyder Cut?

You could say that about any sequel. So waiting 4 years for a dark knight sequel was bad for WB???? Just like waiting a few years for a JL sequel if this JL is big hit...ok then. Grasping at straws much!!

 

[Erzengel]

You could say that about any sequel. So waiting 4 years for a dark knight sequel was bad for WB???? Just like waiting a few years for a JL sequel if this JL is big hit...ok then. Grasping at straws much!!

Why would I maintain a $15 a month subscription for a possible sequel for 3 years?

 

[moviedoors]

Good grief. The Snyder Cut happening is very nearly miraculous. It's not even out yet, and people are already getting defensive about its sequel prospects? Just be happy this cut is happening at all. Don't be greedy.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

All due respect, I’ve been never heard someone using the word ‘hater’ who didn’t seem a bit blinded by emotional investment.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Has anyone figured out who that is speaking of the beginning of the JL trailer? Is it Lex?

Its Lex aye.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Good grief. The Snyder Cut happening is very nearly miraculous. It's not even out yet, and people are already getting defensive about its sequel prospects? Just be happy this cut is happening at all. Don't be greedy.

Honestly, I myself am excited for movie. But the discourse has been as fun as discussing TLJ. Every conversation it feels like amounts to either Snyder fans trying to will sequels into existence and feeling the need to defend his honor, and the other side focuses on trolls and how this is a waste of money. I am at the point of not caring about any of that.

Yes, some fans are trolls but all we can do is mod the forum. If this is indeed a waste of money, who cares cause you don't have to watch it and it ain't your money. On the other side, movie ain't even out yet. Stop talking sequels and crap until we have some data (even then it is unlikely) and if you guys like the other movies, you are allowed. You don't need to go overboard defending anyone's honor.

In conclusion, I just wish we could all talk about the dang movie. Not endless fan bickering, studio politics, economics, or directors who continue to say nonsense and restart the cycle.

End rant

 

[Erzengel]

With Godzilla vs. Kong being released, subscriber numbers may be impacted by the back to back releases so the only way is if Neilsen released numbers just like they did on WW84.

 

[moviedoors]

Honestly, I myself am excited for movie. But the discourse has been as fun as discussing TLJ. Every conversation it feels like amounts to either Snyder fans trying to will sequels into existence and feeling the need to defend his honor, and the other side focuses on trolls and how this is a waste of money. I am at the point of not caring about any of that.

Yes, some fans are trolls but all we can do is mod the forum. If this is indeed a waste of money, who cares cause you don't have to watch it and it ain't your money. On the other side, movie ain't even out yet. Stop talking sequels and crap until we have some data (even then it is unlikely) and if you guys like the other movies, you are allowed. You don't need to go overboard defending anyone's honor.

In conclusion, I just wish we could all talk about the dang movie. Not endless fan bickering, studio politics, economics, or directors who continue to say nonsense and restart the cycle.

End rant

I feel you. I’m excited to watch it personally, but I am utterly baffled by this dork war between people who see it’s existence as personal validation and those who see it’s existence as a personal affront.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I feel you. I’m excited to watch it personally, but I am utterly baffled by this dork war between people who see it’s existence as personal validation and those who see it’s existence as a personal affront.

Agreed. I never viewed MoS or BvS as either crimes against cinema or brilliant masterpieces. For me, they are movies with stuff I like and dislike. This whole war about these films has kind of baffled me for this reason.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Agreed. I never viewed MoS or BvS as either crimes against cinema or brilliant masterpieces. For me, they are movies with stuff I like and dislike. This whole war about these films has kind of baffled me for this reason.

BvS was a crime against Superman and Batman for me. It was the only time my brother ever asked me to leave the theater. Batman monster trucking people got him really pissed.