Hawkeye Episode 3: Echoes (Spoiler Discussion)

[Web-Head]

"Uncle" is 1000% Fisk, but I have a feeling they want us to think it's Jack.

Very good episode though and the action was much better compared to the first two episodes, obvious green screen aside.

The sequence in the toy store, leading to the chase sequence on the bridge was very good and pretty dang fun. The ooze Kate shot was so obviously fake though

They used a different take on the "You don't have to say definitely like that!" line from the trailer

I'm curious to see how Fisk and Kate's mom tie together but him being in charge of the Track Suit mafia makes a lot of sense.

Episode four is gonna be a good one.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Great episode, I love the interaction between Clint and Kate, Echo backstory and connection to Ronin, loved the trick arrows.

 

[Drizzle]

The Uncle stuff was fun, though I'm a bit underwhelmed with Echo. It does feel like she was rushed in to get in a spin-off.

They're most likely fast tracking an Echo series because there's a vast shortage of Hispanic superheroes in the MCU, at least until America Chavez is introduced in Multiverse of Madness and the inevitable introduction of Miles Morales. They can also reboot Robbie Reyes from his Agents of SHIELD version down the line too.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I liked the first two episodes, but this one was better. Also

Spoiler

Fisk looked the same to me as the last time we saw him, at least to me, although it's sort of hard to tell

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Well... That one had it all didn't it?

An effective and touching introduction to a new character, great vet v. newbie banter, a reminder of what Clint has put on the line both in the past and the present, an insanely good chase, trick arrows and a Kingpin tease to top it all off?

A quality forty minute ride that definitely gave both our heroes a showcase.

Something occurred to me... Clint is not just trying out a possible replacement for himself... He's kinda trying out a replacement for his relationship with Natasha.

This was a breakout episode for sure.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I liked the first two episodes, but this one was better. Also

Spoiler

Fisk looked the same to me as the last time we saw him, at least to me, although it's sort of hard to tell

Was there a post cred I missed?

 

[Dr. Evil]

Was there a post cred I missed?

Spoiler

the part where younger Maya was in the dojo and William told her he had to go to work and "Uncle" would drop her off. Now he was all dressed in black, but to me, it seemed like he looked the same. We'll see if it actually happens

 

[Drizzle]

Spoiler

the part where younger Maya was in the dojo and William told her he had to go to work and "Uncle" would drop her off. Now he was all dressed in black, but to me, it seemed like he looked the same. We'll see if it actually happens

Spoiler

It was hard to tell how big he actually is based on that shot but I doubt he's going to be much larger than he was in Daredevil.

 

[Kev4000]

Spoiler

the part where younger Maya was in the dojo and William told her he had to go to work and "Uncle" would drop her off. Now he was all dressed in black, but to me, it seemed like he looked the same. We'll see if it actually happens

Spoiler

It is him, they used the same german dub actor for him, the little chuckle was very clearly him.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah, the Echo stuff has not been the best tbh. The way episode 2 ended on a shot of her as if everyone was already supposed to know who is she is was a weird choice too. At least her motivation for this particular story makes sense, but (judging from the show only) I'm sort of like: "why does this character need a spin-off?"

I thought the actress was fine, especially since I believe this is her first acting gig. But I'm thinking a spinoff will require some additional support to attract an audience including Uncle Willy and perhaps a few others as well. Maybe it's a backdoor pilot to bring Cousin Matt into the MCU?

Yeah I can see a set up of either Echo becoming aware of the true nature of "Uncle" by this season's end leading into her series with Matt popping up there.

Or her series will be about her growth away from Fisk, slowly coming to realize what she is being turned into.

In either case you have a built in hook that has one of the best characters done in live action of the Marvel stable being brought in as a huge piece of a show that needs the visibility given how Echo isn't a well known character. Add to it that Cox... Not that one, the other one, was good, handling herself well with the drama and the action.

I think they could definitely have a compelling series with her as a lead with the pseudo daddy issues with Kingpin playing out.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Spoiler

It was hard to tell how big he actually is based on that shot but I doubt he's going to be much larger than he was in Daredevil.

Spoiler

I don't think he'll be larger than he was the last time we saw him either.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Spoiler

It is him, they used the same german dub actor for him, the little chuckle was very clearly him.

Spoiler

I was referring to his size. It's a bit hard to tell, but it looks like he looks the same as he did in Daredevil

 

[Drizzle]

Spoiler

I don't think he'll be larger than he was the last time we saw him either.

Spoiler

If anything I could see them giving him a padded suit to make him look larger but some people were speculating that they were going to make him look really larger than life (think Kingpin in Into the Spider-Verse), which is just plain impractical given the limited budget for this.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Spoiler

If anything I could see them giving him a padded suit to make him look larger but some people were speculating that they were going to make him look really larger than life (think Kingpin in Into the Spider-Verse), which is just plain impractical given the limited budget for this.

Spoiler

Hasn't Vincent lost weight since he last played Kingpin? If so, a padded suit makes sense.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What are these spoiler tags in a spoiler thread? Fisk was mentioned on the first page. It's the big guy.

 

[Drizzle]

What are these spoiler tags in a spoiler thread? Fisk was mentioned on the first page. It's the big guy.

I tend to tag speculation stuff that could end up being a spoiler down the line, especially with how much speculation about No Way Home has been flying around untagged in other threads.

 

[Kev4000]

I really hated the first 10 minutes of this show. The "poor little girl becomes a fighter" with a dead father is too close to Kates backstory in episode 1. Furthermore, I get a little overkill with Flashbacks of kid Shang Chi in his film, kid Natasha in Black Widow, kid Sylvie in Loki and kid Wanda in Wandavision. It seems to be the new blue-beam-issue I already can tell that Echo and her tracksuit mafia are more annoying for me then the stupid Flagsmashers. Especially Echo seems to be an even more unfunny version of Rosa in Brookly 99, but not likable. Why does she need a spin of? Are they hoping for award buzz?

On the other hand, some choreography of the fight were funny and the car chase was really entertaining to watch. Pym Arrow was awesome and I really liked her subway scene, this one made me really laugh on my couch.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I tend to tag speculation stuff that could end up being a spoiler down the line, especially with how much speculation about No Way Home has been flying around untagged in other threads.

I totally get that. In this case though, we already have a thread for the guy who already told us he was on the show.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I think I'm going to bow out of here until this show is over so you guys can enjoy it, because I don't want to be that guy ruining all the fun by being negative all the time, but man I did not like this episode at all.

I was okay with the first two, but I just don't like the direction this seems to be going in so far with the tracksuit mafia being such non threatening buffoons and now this overly sympathetic, sappy backstory for Echo.

Granted I'm not familiar with the character at all, but for me personally it just adds to the lack of anykind of real stakes in this show while also making it feel like even more pure fluff than it already is.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me wish The Flag Smashers would come back because while the execution was weak atleast they felt like a genuine threat at times unlike the so called villains we are getting here.

This show has its moments though like the Pym arrow being used which I really liked and some of the scenes between Renner and Steinfield, but then they completely lose me at dumb stuff like puddy/purple smoke arrows which was just stupid and pretty pointless IMO even for a Marvel show but maybe that's just me.

I'll still finish it because there isn't much else out right now for to watch that's new, but if this wasn't associated with Marvel or didn't have Renner in it I'd probably be done after this episode.

 

[Drizzle]

I totally get that. In this case though, we already have a thread for the guy who already told us he was on the show.

Oh yeah, D'Onofrio gave no ****s and I think the reason why he got away with it is because for the past few months, all the focus has been on No Way Home.

 

[BlackFox]

Best episode so far by some way, the fight and car chase were excellent, all be it with some pretty bad cg/green screen at certain moments, not sure why Marvel has dropped the ball so bad on that this year, Hawkeye isnt the first offender but still its a worrying trend.

The banter though was great and it felt like some actual development between Clint and Kate this week made them feel like a proper duo fighting crime. Really glad that this was Clints episode through and through even though Kate got her moments but it really felt like she was the apprentice learning from the master in this one. The coffee shop scene was funny as well and all the stuff with Clints hearing aid but the stand out was Kate interpreting for Clint his son on the phone, really touching moment and the best bonding moment so far, felt genuine that moment after all the crazy so far in the episode.

The bad guys are a bit on the "baffoon" side but they aren't really the focus apart from Echo who seems interesting but nothing particularly special although I like how they tied her back story in and also a minor reference to Shang-Chi as well, perhaps, maybe I was reading too much into it but still all good stuff and that "uncle" link is like.

Hope the rest of the series is on this level from here on out but this was a couple of gears up from the first two episodes that it needed and is now revving along nicely.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Best episode so far by some way, the fight and car chase were excellent, all be it with some pretty bad cg/green screen at certain moments, not sure why Marvel has dropped the ball so bad on that this year, Hawkeye isnt the first offender but still its a worrying trend.

The banter though was great and it felt like some actual development between Clint and Kate this week made them feel like a proper duo fighting crime. Really glad that this was Clints episode through and through even though Kate got her moments but it really felt like she was the apprentice learning from the master in this one. The coffee shop scene was funny as well and all the stuff with Clints hearing aid but the stand out was Kate interpreting for Clint his son on the phone, really touching moment and the best bonding moment so far, felt genuine that moment after all the crazy so far in the episode.

The bad guys are a bit on the "baffoon" side but they aren't really the focus apart from Echo who seems interesting but nothing particularly special although I like how they tied her back story in and also a minor reference to Shang-Chi as well, perhaps, maybe I was reading too much into it but still all good stuff and that "uncle" link is like.

Hope the rest of the series is on this level from here on out but this was a couple of gears up from the first two episodes that it needed and is now revving along nicely.

I think they realize this, which is why they delayed all of their theatrical releases starting with Multiverse of Madness. Plus no dates for any of their Disney+ shows in 2022.

 

[Zarex]

I already can tell that Echo and her tracksuit mafia are more annoying for me then the stupid Flagsmashers.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me wish The Flag Smashers would come back because while the execution was weak atleast they felt like a genuine threat at times unlike the so called villains we are getting here.

I'm not going to suggest that the TMs are anything more than goofy henches. But that's the role they played in the comics and I think it's working out okay. I would certainly put them at least a couple of steps above Ms. Mogenthau's super serious multi ethnic group of terrorist dullards. I was quite happy when Zemo's butler blew the last of them up.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I loved the Echo stuff in the opening of the episode. Great stuff. But the big takeaway of this is the "Uncle" part. I am sooooooooo pumped for Fisk!!!!

 

[Dr. Evil]

I'm not going to suggest that the TMs are anything more than goofy henches. But that's the role they played in the comics and I think it's working out okay. I would certainly put them at least a couple of steps above Ms. Mogenthau's super serious multi ethnic group of terrorist dullards. I was quite happy when Zemo's butler blew the last of them up.

I think the Flag Smashers would have been better fleshed out had it not been for the Pandemic causing some production issues. I give The Falcon and the Winter Soldier a pass due to restrictions of the Pandemic, forcing them to change things.