Hawkeye Episode 3: Echoes (Spoiler Discussion)

[CaptainWagner]

LOVED this episode. Stellar debut for Echo. It hurt knowing how little screentime Zahn would get, but hopefully there will be more flashbacks in her solo series. I'm 100% sold on it.

The car chase was incredible. Renner delivered by far the best acting he's given Clint. And the bros continued to bro. I just don't get how people are hating on them. They're pretty much perfectly lifted from the comics. I couldn't be happier.

 

[Donner]

Ooooh man Clint's gonna get his sword back. Sorry Jack.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

This episode was great fun.

 

[samsnee]

I just can’t buy that someone like Hawkeye who knows he’s losing his hearing wouldn’t try to learn how to read lips. It just seems like a huge disadvantage in a battle.

I’m watching this show out of loyalty to the brand. Renner and Steinfeld are great but story wise this is boring. I’m surprised the actress playing Echo is getting her own show. She seems to only have one facial expression, which is constant scowl. Unless Daredevil makes a lot of appearances, I’ll be skipping that series.

 

[legendkillin]

I just can’t buy that someone like Hawkeye who knows he’s losing his hearing wouldn’t try to learn how to read lips. It just seems like a huge disadvantage in a battle.

I’m watching this show out of loyalty to the brand. Renner and Steinfeld are great but story wise this is boring. I’m surprised the actress playing Echo is getting her own show. She seems to only have one facial expression, which is constant scowl. Unless Daredevil makes a lot of appearances, I’ll be skipping that series.

Yeah lip reading for a spy/agent should be a trait, he wouldn't need it so much in battle but interrogations he should. BW could have been doing way more spy stuff than Clint though so he was just muscle. I think Renner and Hailee easily carry the show and it is only 6 eps so I was not expecting a great villain and ton of back story. The main duo scenes and Yelena eventually appearing or Val is what gets me excited. I am sure Echo will be a great representation for the deaf and disabled, but as a series I never heard of the character and doubt the major impact on the movies. Any series that does not seem to have much movie ties or former characters I will probably skip so I can avoid possible overload.

 

[Sithborg]

Well, the opening is a good reminder that I really need to finish Rez Dogs.

Still keeping me interested, so I am happy about that. Nice to see some archery action finally. I did laugh pretty hard at the Track Suit truck. And man, the modern version of green screen the background as the car "drives" lacks the charm of the old way of doing it, and just seems hillarious. The scene with Clint, his son, and Kate was great.

Echo is okay so far. Did not get a whole lot of her to get a full view of the character.

 

[NHawk19]

I really enjoyed this one. Seems like the story is finally starting to move. We saw archery, trick arrows, and further understand why Clint want's out. The phone scene was really well done.

So far Echo makes sense. They established her background, gave her proper motivation, and made her believable. Sure she's got a scowl, but as a deaf person missing a limb, who watched her father die in her arms at Ronan's hands I have to imagine she's pretty focused given how close she is to Ronan, and often times just frustrated at how she's perceived.

Really looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. Sort of weird because Clint is both a good guy and anti-hero/bad guy in this one depending on your perspective.

 

[Iceman]

Is Renner likely to be done with the MCU after this show? Shame if so as I like these 2 together and it could be cool seeing them do a mission or 2 during some team films too. I love these combination arrows.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Is Renner likely to be done with the MCU after this show? Shame if so as I like these 2 together and it could be cool seeing them do a mission or 2 during some team films too. I love these combination arrows.

Seems like it. I haven't been paying much attention to his interviews promoting Hawkeye, but I don't recall him saying he still wants to continue playing the role as Kevin Feige still wants him to, which is the opposite of Hemsworth and Ruffalo. Plus he has a new show called "Mayor of Kingstown" that if it does really well could go on for a few years.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I got a prediction on the Ronin costume at the end of the series:

Spoiler

if it's not used by Maya when she turns face to fight organized crime, it will be obtained by Val for someone on her team to use

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I am betting unless Clint dies, a remote chance but still a chance, they'll gauge reaction to see just how done the MCU is with Renner. If they pay him what he thinks his continued presence is after having gone through one season of a D+ show is worth I think we for sure see more of Clint.

Personally I think Clint as played by Renner is even more interesting now and ripe for big or small screen exploitation than at any time. The cut to the chase, no nonsense dry witted vet as super hero everyman is voice and character that can only add to any situation or story.

 

[Iceman]

Seems like it. I haven't been paying much attention to his interviews promoting Hawkeye, but I don't recall him saying he still wants to continue playing the role as Kevin Feige still wants him to, which is the opposite of Hemsworth and Ruffalo. Plus he has a new show called "Mayor of Kingstown" that if it does really well could go on for a few years.

Oh right, thanks, didn’t know about the show. Who knows, maybe he’ll come back for a cameo here and there. Was interesting seeing a hero with a family and how they deal with it.

 

[Iceman]

I am betting unless Clint dies, a remote chance but still a chance, they'll gauge reaction to see just how done the MCU is with Renner. If they pay him what he thinks his continued presence is after having gone through one season of a D+ show is worth I think we for sure see more of Clint.

Personally I think Clint as played by Renner is even more interesting now and ripe for big or small screen exploitation than at any time. The cut to the chase, no nonsense dry witted vet as super hero everyman is voice and character that can only add to any situation or story.

Agreed. I also think he’s at his most interesting right now and his relationship with Kate is something I’d like to see develop and persist. Like say he retires for a few years and is properly out of it, and then Kate goes missing or is in proper danger. Can’t imagine (the character at least) would stay at home and let things be in that situation.

 

[metaphysician]

They're most likely fast tracking an Echo series because there's a vast shortage of Hispanic superheroes in the MCU, at least until America Chavez is introduced in Multiverse of Madness and the inevitable introduction of Miles Morales. They can also reboot Robbie Reyes from his Agents of SHIELD version down the line too.

I do have to wonder about the premise, though. Echo, as portrayed here. . . is a supervillain. I mean, a reasonably sympathetic one, and who hasn't exactly demonstrated any kind of particular moral event horizon type evil, but still. She's a crime boss who runs a criminal gang, and it certainly looked like she was at least comfortable in criminal circles even before her father died ( ie, she didn't become a crime boss purely for revenge ). So, will she get some kind of redemption arc here? Or is her show going to be a villain protagonist show?

( Note, my knowledge of Echo from the comic is almost nothing, just that she's a deaf analog to Daredevil and that she eventually started running around in the Ronin outfit. )

 

[Drizzle]

I do have to wonder about the premise, though. Echo, as portrayed here. . . is a supervillain. I mean, a reasonably sympathetic one, and who hasn't exactly demonstrated any kind of particular moral event horizon type evil, but still. She's a crime boss who runs a criminal gang, and it certainly looked like she was at least comfortable in criminal circles even before her father died ( ie, she didn't become a crime boss purely for revenge ). So, will she get some kind of redemption arc here? Or is her show going to be a villain protagonist show?

( Note, my knowledge of Echo from the comic is almost nothing, just that she's a deaf analog to Daredevil and that she eventually started running around in the Ronin outfit. )

I suppose she'll have a redemption arc not unlike Loki that may even begin in this show.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I suppose she'll have a redemption arc not unlike Loki that may even begin in this show.

She has already defied orders, with Kazi saying that going after Ronin wasn't what Uncle wanted her to do.

 

[legendkillin]

Is Renner likely to be done with the MCU after this show? Shame if so as I like these 2 together and it could be cool seeing them do a mission or 2 during some team films too. I love these combination arrows.

I don't think he is done, we have that Black Widow credit scene. They can't resolve that in this where there has been no build up towards it this season. That would be a rush.
I think he has a few more appearances left before retiring.

 

[Kev4000]

I don't think he is done, we have that Black Widow credit scene. They can't resolve that in this where there has been no build up towards it this season. That would be a rush.
I think he has a few more appearances left before retiring.

You already had those Natasha references with the girl in the Musical and Clint refering her here and then. Im sure they will solve this plot in this show. What would be Clints plot otherwise?
In addition, there is a new mystery person in the newest promo, I guess this will be her. I cant imagine they push this story into.... yeah, into what?

They will have a fight scene, an emotional conversation and Yelena get known that Val told her not the entire truth about Natashas death.

 

[metaphysician]

I am betting unless Clint dies, a remote chance but still a chance, they'll gauge reaction to see just how done the MCU is with Renner. If they pay him what he thinks his continued presence is after having gone through one season of a D+ show is worth I think we for sure see more of Clint.

Personally I think Clint as played by Renner is even more interesting now and ripe for big or small screen exploitation than at any time. The cut to the chase, no nonsense dry witted vet as super hero everyman is voice and character that can only add to any situation or story.

My own preference: have him show up as the commander for the Thunderbolts-as-in-supervillains-on-parole. Not Val's "evil black ops team", but captured villains given a supervised second chance.

 

[metaphysician]

She has already defied orders, with Kazi saying that going after Ronin wasn't what Uncle wanted her to do.

Yeah, but that's not exactly a *redemptive* defiance. "I disobeyed my crimelord instructions because I instead want to track down and murder someone" is not the road to heroism.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Benedict Cumberbatch and Benedict Wong both come to mind if we're talking uncanny coincidences. Both Masters of the Mystic Arts. Plus --- Wong cast as Wong! Unbelievable.

How's that for a coincidence?

 

[RockSP]

Is Renner likely to be done with the MCU after this show? Shame if so as I like these 2 together and it could be cool seeing them do a mission or 2 during some team films too. I love these combination arrows.

I doubt it. I haven't seen it myself, but someone on youtube (John Campea, maybe) was saying Renner has said he'd like to see Hawkeye leading the West Coast Avengers.

As for him being on Mayor of Kingstown, that's no issue. Any further Hawkeye appearances would be scheduled around it, if that show even lasts. Don Cheadle has been the lead in a couple shows while still playing Rhodey when the time came. Plus cable shows don't typically have the high episode count that network shows have (or used to have).

 

[Iceman]

I doubt it. I haven't seen it myself, but someone on youtube (John Campea, maybe) was saying Renner has said he'd like to see Hawkeye leading the West Coast Avengers.

As for him being on Mayor of Kingstown, that's no issue. Any further Hawkeye appearances would be scheduled around it, if that show even lasts. Don Cheadle has been the lead in a couple shows while still playing Rhodey when the time came. Plus cable shows don't typically have the high episode count that network shows have (or used to have).

Nice, thanks for the info. That's great if he's up for more. If we're losing Evans, RDJ & Scarlett (and Chadwick Boseman) at the same time then it will be nice for the originals to hang around as long as possible.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Nice, thanks for the info. That's great if he's up for more. If we're losing Evans, RDJ & Scarlett (and Chadwick Boseman) at the same time then it will be nice for the originals to hang around as long as possible.

Hemsworth and Ruffalo have said that they want to be in the MCU as long as Kevin Feige still wants them.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Yeah, but that's not exactly a *redemptive* defiance. "I disobeyed my crimelord instructions because I instead want to track down and murder someone" is not the road to heroism.

Something will happen to make her turn face. Maybe she finds out that it was Kazi under the Ronin outfit on orders by Fist to kill her father?