The Superhero Cinematic Civil War

[DKDetective]

Spoiler

The character Hayt. aka the first Duncan Idaho ghola. The mentat that is the anti Momoa. Who is almost Vulcan. I want to see Momoa attempt it. The rest of cast will absolutely be able to carry, so I can stand one subpar performance.

Thanks, I remembered

Spoiler

the ghola, but I forgot about the Mentat, Vulcan-like part before he unlocks.his memories and original personality.

 

[Luigi]

I’m 30 minutes into Aquaman 2 and I am so not engaged. All I can think about is the many ways Yahya Abdul-Mateen would make an awesome T’Challa variant.

It is really pretty though.

I was falling asleep during the third act in the theater.

The struggle was real.

 

[blueharvest]

I’m 30 minutes into Aquaman 2 and I am so not engaged. All I can think about is the many ways Yahya Abdul-Mateen would make an awesome T’Challa variant.

It is really pretty though.

I was falling asleep during the third act in the theater.

The struggle was real.

Yeah, when I was watching Aquaman 2 on Max, I was on my phone half the time, so I know what you mean, lol.

 

[kguillou]

I think Dune 2’s success is further hammering home that audiences are craving something different these days and superhero movies REALLY need to step it up and start evolving. I admit as a lifelong fan of this genre even I’m burnt out on them and I like seeing stuff like Dune; Barbie, Oppenheimer, Super Mario, M3gan etc take the spotlight away from cbms.

I still go and enjoy stuff like Aquaman 2 or Blue Beetle or The Marvels and i will definitely be seeing Deadpool 3 this year but they’re no longer feeling like theatrical events to me which they SHOULD. Cbms need to start feeling BIG again, big in a way that you gotta go see it in a theater on a big IMAX screen opening weekend instead of waiting for it to pop up on Disney + or Max.

 

[Flint Marko]

I’m 30 minutes into Aquaman 2 and I am so not engaged. All I can think about is the many ways Yahya Abdul-Mateen would make an awesome T’Challa variant.

It is really pretty though.

I'm halfway through Napoleon, another "pretty but not fully engaging" experience that's scratching the period-piece itch if nothing else, and was planning on throwing on Aquaman 2 afterward. I'm expecting bright colors and action so as long as it delivers that, there are worse ways to spend a Sunday.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I'm halfway through Napoleon, another "pretty but not fully engaging" experience that's scratching the period-piece itch if nothing else, and was planning on throwing on Aquaman 2 afterward. I'm expecting bright colors and action so as long as it delivers that, there are worse ways to spend a Sunday.

I'm halfway through Napoleon myself and I'm debating on even finishing it. The movie literally just feels like scenes put together.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Iceman]

Good, would have been terrible if we didn’t see her again. Will be interesting to see where she appears next.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think Dune 2’s success is further hammering home that audiences are craving something different these days and superhero movies REALLY need to step it up and start evolving. I admit as a lifelong fan of this genre even I’m burnt out on them and I like seeing stuff like Dune; Barbie, Oppenheimer, Super Mario, M3gan etc take the spotlight away from cbms.

I still go and enjoy stuff like Aquaman 2 or Blue Beetle or The Marvels and i will definitely be seeing Deadpool 3 this year but they’re no longer feeling like theatrical events to me which they SHOULD. Cbms need to start feeling BIG again, big in a way that you gotta go see it in a theater on a big IMAX screen opening weekend instead of waiting for it to pop up on Disney + or Max.

CBMs are something I will always look forward to as a lifelong fan of the material and I am happy to have gotten so many good ones when my childhood was spent with very little selection, and much of what I would try and fill that void was low rent garbage like the Matt Salinger Captain America movie and such.

That said, the issue really is laziness. We are not getting films like the Sony garbage films or various lesser known characters out of a sense of having a good story largely. It's IP mining. That's the issue. I can at least respect something like Eternals cause the director had a vision behind making it, even if it didn't work for most. I have zero respect for crap like Morbius or Madame Web that are born from a cynical place and obvious corporate mentality.

For CBMs to get back on track, you need to have good ideas for a story before anything else. Why does this exist and why are we telling this story? You have to have a compelling reason the movie is being made beyond MAKE DA MONEYZ LULZ!!!! That just isn't going to fly anymore. Your movie has to stand out, and thats only going to happen if the audience cares. But that starts with having a reason and passion for your material. If you don't care about what you're asking me to pay money for, why should I care?

To paraphrase one of my favorite superhero films of all-time, we need to take the entire genre back to formula. Instead of focusing on nostalgia bait and complex multiverse crap, you need to answer the simple question of "what's this story about and what are we trying to accomplish artistically?" You know, the core question you should ask about any movie you're making

 

[kguillou]

CBMs are something I will always look forward to as a lifelong fan of the material and I am happy to have gotten so many good ones when my childhood was spent with very little selection, and much of what I would try and fill that void was low rent garbage like the Matt Salinger Captain America movie and such.

That said, the issue really is laziness. We are not getting films like the Sony garbage films or various lesser known characters out of a sense of having a good story largely. It's IP mining. That's the issue. I can at least respect something like Eternals cause the director had a vision behind making it, even if it didn't work for most. I have zero respect for crap like Morbius or Madame Web that are born from a cynical place and obvious corporate mentality.

For CBMs to get back on track, you need to have good ideas for a story before anything else. Why does this exist and why are we telling this story? You have to have a compelling reason the movie is being made beyond MAKE DA MONEYZ LULZ!!!! That just isn't going to fly anymore. Your movie has to stand out, and thats only going to happen if the audience cares. But that starts with having a reason and passion for your material. If you don't care about what you're asking me to pay money for, why should I care?

To paraphrase one of my favorite superhero films of all-time, we need to take the entire genre back to formula. Instead of focusing on nostalgia bait and complex multiverse crap, you need to answer the simple question of "what's this story about and what are we trying to accomplish artistically?" You know, the core question you should ask about any movie you're making

See, here's the tricky thing, though. Audiences, so far, are telling the studios that nostalgia and multiverse stuff works. NWH, MoM are the MCU's biggest hits post Endgame so far and I'm SURE Deadpool & Wolverine is gonna break the bank this summer. So, my fear is that the takeaway is gonna be "MORE MULTIVERZZZ!!"

I am scared to death of what Sony is gonna do with Spider-man 4. SM4 SHOULD be a "back to basics" grounded movie that rebuilds Peter Parker from the ground up and shows him becoming his own self made man without the help of Tony Stark and The Avengers. Making a new life for himself, finding new friends, new allies (Daredevil), new love etc. But I just KNOW Pascal and Avi Arad and the gang are gonna shove Tobey and Andrew back in somehow and run that gimmick into the ground. I dont want Tobey and Andrew back, that was a one-time special event where two prior Spider-men passed the mantle to the new Spider-man and got their encore. We dont need to see this happen over and over again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Dune 2’s success is further hammering home that audiences are craving something different these days and superhero movies REALLY need to step it up and start evolving. I admit as a lifelong fan of this genre even I’m burnt out on them and I like seeing stuff like Dune; Barbie, Oppenheimer, Super Mario, M3gan etc take the spotlight away from cbms.

I still go and enjoy stuff like Aquaman 2 or Blue Beetle or The Marvels and i will definitely be seeing Deadpool 3 this year but they’re no longer feeling like theatrical events to me which they SHOULD. Cbms need to start feeling BIG again, big in a way that you gotta go see it in a theater on a big IMAX screen opening weekend instead of waiting for it to pop up on Disney + or Max.

I think the reaction to the Deadpool trailer and the rest of MCU Phase 4 emphasizes that "something new" is not what general audiences want from their Superhero movies. Marvel has tried to be different. Not massively, but definitely different. And in the process what we've learned is that it's the familiar (No Way Home, MoM, V3) that has gone over the best.

Dune, when it's a white man savior action movie (like the vast majority of comic book movies are), is not a good example. Nor is Megan, when the Conjuring series can piss out anything, and make 200m easy. The horror niche, is very much franchise built as well.

 

[Spider-Fan]

See, here's the tricky thing, though. Audiences, so far, are telling the studios that nostalgia and multiverse stuff works. NWH, MoM are the MCU's biggest hits post Endgame so far and I'm SURE Deadpool & Wolverine is gonna break the bank this summer. So, my fear is that the takeaway is gonna be "MORE MULTIVERZZZ!!"

I am scared to death of what Sony is gonna do with Spider-man 4. SM4 SHOULD be a "back to basics" grounded movie that rebuilds Peter Parker from the ground up and shows him becoming his own self made man without the help of Tony Stark and The Avengers. Making a new life for himself, finding new friends, new allies (Daredevil), new love etc. But I just KNOW Pascal and Avi Arad and the gang are gonna shove Tobey and Andrew back in somehow and run that gimmick into the ground. I dont want Tobey and Andrew back, that was a one-time special event where two prior Spider-men passed the mantle to the new Spider-man and got their encore. We dont need to see this happen over and over again.

But what's worked best has been nostalgia with a purpose. NWH was a celebration of Spider-man in cinema for example. So when it supports the project, it's fine. But when it's empty calories, it doesn't land.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Batgirl0202]

My heart dropped when I read that Spider-Man 4 "might" be another Multiverse tale

Don't get me wrong, the geek in me appreciates the Multiverse angle simply for the infinite story-telling possibilities. I don't hate the idea on principle, but the Multiverse should only be used if the story you're trying to tell warrants it organically. Just using the Multiverse because you want to include a Multiverse "Phase" is the epitome of laziness...

I was thrilled by the ending of No Way Home. I thought that hitting the reset button and taking Peter back to his roots was a wonderful setup for future sequels. I want to see Peter team up with Daredevil and Punisher, taking on Kingpin, Hammerhead, and The Enforcers. I don't want to see Holland's version of the character teaming up with Mister Fantastic and Mar-Vell, fighting Annihilus in the Negative Zone

I get that Commerce Is King and the direction that puts more butts in seats will win out, but I'm crossing my fingers that Feige convinces Sony to go in the direction that makes the most sense for Spider-Man as a character

 

[Sithborg]

I will say this, I understand why they want to push the Spiderverse. It is a concept that seems to have really taken hold of fan circles, in a way that other multiverse stories has not. You don't see this spider-sonae type stuff with other superheroes. Personally, I find it a fascinating aspect of the Spider-man fandom, where Peter Parker is becoming less and less important to that fandom.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I will say this, I understand why they want to push the Spiderverse. It is a concept that seems to have really taken hold of fan circles, in a way that other multiverse stories has not. You don't see this spider-sonae type stuff with other superheroes. Personally, I find it a fascinating aspect of the Spider-man fandom, where Peter Parker is becoming less and less important to that fandom.

Which I really, really like and wish happened more often. I'd love to live in a world where Batman is just consistently Dick Grayson or Terry McGinnis for a long, long time. Huge supporter of totally removing the classic status quo of these characters at this point.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But is Peter really "less important"? The movie that made all the cash was the one with 3 of him. He's in Spider-Verse as a major character. Only Venom has landed with general audiences.

I get in the ever shrinking comic fanbase, but I actually feel like Batman and Spidey are in the same place. Their most famous villains can carry a movie, their "sidekicks" can well enough, but there is no comparison to how over Bruce and Peter are.

 

[kguillou]

I think at the end of the day it all about novelty. We've had over 100 comic book movies in the last two decades...what hasnt been done yet? NWH, you can call what they did a gimmick, but it was a novelty. Getting three generations of one character to team up was something that really hadnt been done before. Days of Future Past kinda played with that concept but NWH really ran with it. Thats the question though that future MCU films are going to have to ask themselves "what is this movie giving audiences that we havent gotten before?" What is Captain America New World Order going to offer audiences to get them to run to their movie theater next year? Red Hulk?

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I just want one modern movie with Peter fighting Kingpin, his astronomical Queens rent and maybe a big ass Spider Slayer, and him chasing Black Cat and a post credit with him and Johnny Storm being bros.

That’s not a lot to ask for is it?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think at the end of the day it all about novelty. We've had over 100 comic book movies in the last two decades...what hasnt been done yet? NWH, you can call what they did a gimmick, but it was a novelty. Getting three generations of one character to team up was something that really hadnt been done before. Days of Future Past kinda played with that concept but NWH really ran with it. Thats the question though that future MCU films are going to have to ask themselves "what is this movie giving audiences that we havent gotten before?" What is Captain America New World Order going to offer audiences to get them to run to their movie theater next year? Red Hulk?

My hope is that they just make Cap 4 the best movie it can be. I don't necessarily have to get something I have never seen before, I just need to see a movie with a good story, good writing, and exciting set pieces. Not something phoned in cause we needed more content

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think at the end of the day it all about novelty. We've had over 100 comic book movies in the last two decades...what hasnt been done yet? NWH, you can call what they did a gimmick, but it was a novelty. Getting three generations of one character to team up was something that really hadnt been done before. Days of Future Past kinda played with that concept but NWH really ran with it. Thats the question though that future MCU films are going to have to ask themselves "what is this movie giving audiences that we havent gotten before?" What is Captain America New World Order going to offer audiences to get them to run to their movie theater next year? Red Hulk?

What was novel about GotG vol 3? Across the Spider-Verse? MOM?

I think the more obvious question with the new Cap flick, is would it do better if it was Evans/Rogers. And I'd say yes. Just like if they did another Iron Man with RDJ.

I think a big issue for the MCU is how every character of signifcance goes missing for years. In the original MCU there wasn't much time between appearences for actors/characters. There was a streak of RDJ and Evans being in a MCU flick every year. This is why not doing an Avengers flick recently has been such a bad idea.

 

[Batgirl0202]

I will say this, I understand why they want to push the Spiderverse. It is a concept that seems to have really taken hold of fan circles, in a way that other multiverse stories has not. You don't see this spider-sonae type stuff with other superheroes. Personally, I find it a fascinating aspect of the Spider-man fandom, where Peter Parker is becoming less and less important to that fandom.

The Sony Spider-Verse movies are cinematic perfection, and Miles Morales is the best pop culture comic book creation since, well, Peter Parker. I don't want Sony messing around with those movies in the slightest

In terms of live-action Spider-Man, I'd definitely like to see Peter returned to his roots with less emphasis on cosmic shenanigans. However, if a status quo shake-up is in order, my vote would be for Miles to replace Peter as the "official" MCU Spider-Man, not Tobey or Andrew.

 

[Zarex]

Its going to be an impossible task for Feige and company to replicate the success of the pre Endgame MCU given that superhero flicks feeding into All Star superhero mash up movies is no longer new and exciting. And the fact that the company's best linking device - the great Jim Starlin's ultimate weapon made up of a half dozen awesome weapons - has already been snapped.

What I would like to see is the powers that be remember that Marvel (and DC) are publishing houses and not superhero delivery devices. The two Marvel Studios Special Presentations were some of my favorite output from the company in recent years and neither were particularly superheroey. Lets have MCU horror & western films - maybe a horror western?. Its been over two decades and we still don't have Millie the Model and Peter the Little Pest in the MCU!

What we almost certainly will see instead is some combination of Avengers vs X Men vs Eternals vs Young Avengers vs Fantastic Four vs New GOTG vs Thunderbolts.

 

[kguillou]

Its going to be an impossible task for Feige and company to replicate the success of the pre Endgame MCU given that superhero flicks feeding into All Star superhero mash up movies is no longer new and exciting. And the fact that the company's best linking device - the great Jim Starlin's ultimate weapon made up of a half dozen awesome weapons - has already been snapped.

What I would like to see is the powers that be remember that Marvel (and DC) are publishing houses and not superhero delivery devices. The two Marvel Studios Special Presentations were some of my favorite output from the company in recent years and neither were particularly superheroey. Lets have MCU horror & western films - maybe a horror western?. Its been over two decades and we still don't have Millie the Model and Peter the Little Pest in the MCU!

What we almost certainly will see instead is some combination of Avengers vs X Men vs Eternals vs Young Avengers vs Fantastic Four vs New GOTG vs Thunderbolts.

None of those mashups even sound remotely appeasing to me. However i will fully and shamelessly concede that a Spiderman and the X-Men team up movie would get my butt there opening day. I dont know, as a child of the 90s, theres always been something inherently appealing to me to seeing Spidey mix it up with the mutants.

 

[Filmfreak]

I'm halfway through Napoleon myself and I'm debating on even finishing it. The movie literally just feels like scenes put together.

For me, Ridley Scott has unfortunately been in autopilot for many years now and it's especially sad because he made some of my favourite movies of all time. Napoleon was one of the most generic and boring films he made and he's infamous for historical epics. That's another reason I don't have faith in Gladiator 2.

I think the reaction to the Deadpool trailer and the rest of MCU Phase 4 emphasizes that "something new" is not what general audiences want from their Superhero movies. Marvel has tried to be different. Not massively, but definitely different. And in the process what we've learned is that it's the familiar (No Way Home, MoM, V3) that has gone over the best.

Dune, when it's a white man savior action movie (like the vast majority of comic book movies are), is not a good example. Nor is Megan, when the Conjuring series can piss out anything, and make 200m easy. The horror niche, is very much franchise built as well.

Let's see how Dune Messiah will do then.