The Superhero Cinematic Civil War

[Zarex]

I’m a big fan of legacy characters and the idea that when a hero hangs up their cape due to death or retirement someone else is ready to put it on. I think they make connected cinematic universes feel more real than the comics in which there is only the illusion of change and the original is ready to take the role back as soon as sales lag.

Many legacies, including Johnny Storm, Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Carol Danvers and Scott Lang have gone on to become the definitive versions. I already like the new MCU Hawkeye and Black Widow better than their predecessors, and Gunn’s DCU is going the legacy route with Michael Holt and Damien Wayne. I’d like to see the MCU and DCU give us a combination of legacies and brand new characters

 

[Spider-Fan]

In regards to legacy heroes, it really depends. I don't love everyone having some type of legacy replacement. Just feels like every new character is getting a hand me down as opposed to a legacy of their own and it's predictable if everyone has the same 30 IP branded pajamas. Also some identities are so intrinsically tied to that character's persona where a legacy doesn't make sense. So like a Green Lantern or Flash makes sense cause it's sort of baked into the IP at this point, or Black Panther cause it's a mantle passed down generations, etc. But for someone like say, Superman I don't love the legacy concept as much. Or Mr Fantasitc, etc. So, legacy characters can work, but so can just replacing that character by someone entirely new with their own brand and identity.

 

[DA_Champion]

In regards to legacy heroes, it really depends. I don't love everyone having some type of legacy replacement. Just feels like every new character is getting a hand me down as opposed to a legacy of their own and it's predictable if everyone has the same 30 IP branded pajamas. Also some identities are so intrinsically tied to that character's persona where a legacy doesn't make sense. So like a Green Lantern or Flash makes sense cause it's sort of baked into the IP at this point, or Black Panther cause it's a mantle passed down generations, etc. But for someone like say, Superman I don't love the legacy concept as much. Or Mr Fantasitc, etc. So, legacy characters can work, but so can just replacing that character by someone entirely new with their own brand and identity.

There are countless characters that have not had one good movie, so what's the point of legacy heroes?

 

[Spider-Fan]

There are countless characters that have not had one good movie, so what's the point of legacy heroes?

Again, it depends. Just being a superhero with a brand name doesnt entitle you to get a major studio movie. It depends on what you have a story for. If you have a good idea for a legacy character, and it's better than anything ya got for say Red Tornado, then you do whatever idea you have that works best.

 

[DA_Champion]

Again, it depends. Just being a superhero with a brand name doesnt entitle you to get a major studio movie. It depends on what you have a story for. If you have a good idea for a legacy character, and it's better than anything ya got for say Red Tornado, then you do whatever idea you have that works best.

I assume that there are effectively countless characters with good stories. The pool of ideas is deep, but the industry as a whole can take out a couple dozen drops a year. No need to get the yellow drops.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I assume that there are effectively countless characters with good stories. The pool of ideas is deep, but the industry as a whole can take out a couple dozen drops a year. No need to get the yellow drops.

If someone delivers a good idea for a yellow drop, you would be foolish to ignore it. Though Edgar Wright didn't do his Ant-Man, the idea to use legacy version Scott Lang ended up being a good one as it spawned 2 sequels. Good ideas are good ideas. I think it's fairly dismissive to just be like "nah, you got a good idea here but it involves using a legacy character, so I would rather we make Red Tornado instead."

 

[DA_Champion]

If someone delivers a good idea for a yellow drop, you would be foolish to ignore it. Though Edgar Wright didn't do his Ant-Man, the idea to use legacy version Scott Lang ended up being a good one as it spawned 2 sequels. Good ideas are good ideas. I think it's fairly dismissive to just be like "nah, you got a good idea here but it involves using a legacy character, so I would rather we make Red Tornado instead."

But Ant Man was made because someone had a good idea and not because he was a good brand. Very few people had heard of Ant Man, he was on the level Guardians of the Galaxy.

Sorry I may have misunderstood. I'm in favour of good ideas, and not in favour of brand harvesting.

 

[Spider-Fan]

But Ant Man was made because someone had a good idea and not because he was a good brand. Very few people had heard of Ant Man, he was on the level Guardians of the Galaxy.

Sorry I may have misunderstood. I'm in favour of good ideas, and not in favour of brand harvesting.

I literally said in my original post that sometimes it makes sense but not everyone should be wearing the same IP branded pajamas in my initial post on this topic. Maybe you should go back and read that a bit more carefully

 

[The Batman]

I prefer legacy characters that feel like a reinvention or reboot of the concept, like Hal Jordan. Hal doesn't even feel like a legacy character in the normal sense. Alan Scott has, as far as I can tell, little to nothing to do with the backstory of the "Space Cop" version of Green Lantern.

Gunn may be using Michael Holt, but it wouldn't surprise me if Terry Sloane isn't apart of Holt's backstory in the DCU.

 

[Sithborg]

Can someone please use Danny Ketch? Robbie Reyes is even acceptable.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Can someone please use Danny Ketch? Robbie Reyes is even acceptable.

Agents of SHIELD used Robbie. Honestly, I would be all for Danny. He's like, the lost Ghost Rider

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah I'm generally not huge on legacy characters, that's why I always preferred the X-Men because they weren't legacies to be passed on. For a long time it was written as like, "who would want to be a new Wolverine, his life sucks". PLUS, he was not exactly some beloved figure who the world would miss if he was gone.

But that's changed over the last couple decades and now there's a whole Wolverine family, and a title about a bunch of Multiverse Wolverines forming a team.

Legacies have occasionally been done well, eg. Hal, Bucky, Dick, Kate Bishop... but for the most part I'd take, like, the Young X-Men over legacy versions of the O5 any day

 

[Deck Rickard]

I’m fine with Danny Ketch or Robbie Reyes as Ghost Rider but also give me 90s post-GR Johnny Blaze, with his half-metal face and overall psychotic attitude. That was always my favorite version of that character.

 

[Batgirl0202]

I want a Ghost Rider Special Presentation from Marvel this Halloween, with guest stars Mephisto and Satana.

Throw in Nina (Vampire by Night) too. In the comics she's Jack Russell's niece, who of course was already introduced in Werewolf by Night.

Marvel, give me this and you don't need to get me anything for Christmas this year

 

[Kane52630]

For the new MCU GhostRider, all I'm asking is let Nic Cage play the Sam Elliott role or Mephisto.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I have to admit, I would love to see Cage show up in the MCU. Not as Ghost Rider obviously. But I think there is a role out there that would really play to his strengths. Not sure who though.

 

[Iceman]

I have to admit, I would love to see Cage show up in the MCU. Not as Ghost Rider obviously. But I think there is a role out there that would really play to his strengths. Not sure who though.

Cage could save the entire MCU (+CBMs in general, film as a whole, art, Earth and beyond etc) in 5 minutes.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

All I gotta say is Johnny Blaze is one of the coolest names I have ever heard in fiction.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think at the end of the day it all about novelty. We've had over 100 comic book movies in the last two decades...what hasnt been done yet? NWH, you can call what they did a gimmick, but it was a novelty. Getting three generations of one character to team up was something that really hadnt been done before. Days of Future Past kinda played with that concept but NWH really ran with it. Thats the question though that future MCU films are going to have to ask themselves "what is this movie giving audiences that we havent gotten before?" What is Captain America New World Order going to offer audiences to get them to run to their movie theater next year? Red Hulk?

I certainly feel there is a lot to this, but it hasn’t in my view really been tested. We haven’t to my knowledge had a true well-regarded flop. Most of the bombs are lousy movies in their own right. So it isn’t quite certain whether audiences want something new or whether audiences are more picky when it comes to things like reviews.

If something like GOTG3 or Spider-Verse bombed I’d be a lot more confident in saying the superhero genre is a spent force.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I’m not a fan of legacy characters in general. Usually they just come across as mediocre unoriginal ripoffs of the original. There are places where it does work, such as it being baked into the concept where it is more of a title than a person (ex Green Lantern).

Something like Batman Beyond can work as well, but only as long as the concept hasn’t been beaten into the ground. A whole universe of Super Hero Guy Jrs running around with similar powers and outfits would suck.

 

[Iceman]

I certainly feel there is a lot to this, but it hasn’t in my view really been tested. We haven’t to my knowledge had a true well-regarded flop. Most of the bombs are lousy movies in their own right. So it isn’t quite certain whether audiences want something new or whether audiences are more picky when it comes to things like reviews.

If something like GOTG3 or Spider-Verse bombed I’d be a lot more confident in saying the superhero genre is a spent force.

All true. I think the market has moved at least a bit regardless as many terrible films in the past had less disastrous worst case scenarios. We had disasters for sure, just not an almost guaranteed horrendous number for anything sub par.

 

[Iceman]

I’m not a fan of legacy characters in general. Usually they just come across as mediocre unoriginal ripoffs of the original. There are places where it does work, such as it being baked into the concept where it is more of a title than a person (ex Green Lantern).

Something like Batman Beyond can work as well, but only as long as the concept hasn’t been beaten into the ground. A whole universe of Super Hero Guy Jrs running around with similar powers and outfits would suck.

For me it's about how much the legacy character can differentiate themselves from the original while keeping true to the underlying facets of what was important to the original. Even better if they can learn lessons from where the original came up short.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I certainly feel there is a lot to this, but it hasn’t in my view really been tested. We haven’t to my knowledge had a true well-regarded flop. Most of the bombs are lousy movies in their own right. So it isn’t quite certain whether audiences want something new or whether audiences are more picky when it comes to things like reviews.

If something like GOTG3 or Spider-Verse bombed I’d be a lot more confident in saying the superhero genre is a spent force.

That's true. Both Quantumania and The Marvels had lower RT scores, as well

 

[DA_Champion]

Cage could save the entire MCU (+CBMs in general, film as a whole, art, Earth and beyond etc) in 5 minutes.

Have you been spared the agony of watching Flash?

 

[Iceman]

Have you been spared the agony of watching Flash?

“Been spared” isn’t really giving me due credit, I actively/intentionally spared myself.