Justice League Ben Affleck IS Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 6

[Reel-Man]

Yes.

It's definitely a problem if he's willing to kill and he lets Joker live. It's stupid in a movie for grownups. There's no justification.

Well considering the scene was before Superman’s destruction mayhem and Batman didn’t capture the Joker, it’s pretty simple really. Joker technically died in Suicide Squad. The movie minus the flashbacks took place after Superman’s death. So no more killing for Batman. I guess the Joker’s smashed in teeth (reason for the grills) wasn’t violent enough for pre-kill Batman. Not to mention Batman was busy with the whole work invasion thing in JL to worry about the Joker. We have no idea what was supposed to be the Joker’s DCEU arc past Suicide Squad.

Also it’s adorable that Zack’s grown up comment got under your skin. Specially considering he said it to someone specifically and not to the fans. But hey, anything is hate fuel when there’s blinding rage.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well considering the scene was before Superman’s destruction mayhem and Batman didn’t capture the Joker, it’s pretty simple really. Joker technically died in Suicide Squad. The movie minus the flashbacks took place after Superman’s death. So no more killing for Batman. I guess the Joker’s smashed in teeth (reason for the grills) wasn’t violent enough for pre-kill Batman. Not to mention Batman was busy with the whole work invasion thing in JL to worry about the Joker. We have no idea what was supposed to be the Joker’s DCEU arc past Suicide Squad.

Joker didn't technically die in anything. Also most of Batman v Superman is set 18 months after Man of Steel.

Also it’s adorable that Zack’s grown up comment got under your skin. Specially considering he said it to someone specifically and not to the fans. But hey, anything is hate fuel when there’s blinding rage.

His and your words, not mine.

 

[Reel-Man]

Your point?

 

[Boom]

So your problem is that he didn’t kill enough?

If the DCEU canon establishes that Batman is willing to take lives, then yes The Joker should 100% be dead.

 

[Arachnerd]

Reel, you should really stop taking the bait here, dude.

 

[Da-Scribe]

If the DCEU canon establishes that Batman is willing to take lives, then yes The Joker should 100% be dead.

This is a false dichotomy. There are other options. Batman simply could've tried to kill Joker and failed. Maybe due to the intervention of another villain/vigilante/GCPD/etc.

 

[chintai80]

i also always chalk it up to the whole trope of joker being good at cheating death.

like batman punched him off a building how many times? yet he always still survives.

in SS, he was on that chopper when it blew up. but dood still was alive by end of the movie. lol

 

[Boom]

This is a false dichotomy. There are other options. Batman simply could've tried to kill Joker and failed. Maybe due to the intervention of another villain/vigilante/GCPD/etc.

Over a 20-year span? He seemed to have no problem rag-dolling guys in the Batmobile, throwing crates at people's heads, tossing grenades back at people, and igniting Anatoli's flamethrower - all spur-of-the-moment, impulse decisions. He didn't have one such opportune moment with The Joker? After multiple encounters?

It stretches credulity with me.

 

[heatvision38]

He wasn't killing people for 20 years.

That first conversation between Alfred and Bruce tells us a lot of what we need to know regarding Bruce's mental state and his behaviors.

 

[idiot09]

Over a 20-year span? He seemed to have no problem rag-dolling guys in the Batmobile, throwing crates at people's heads, tossing grenades back at people, and igniting Anatoli's flamethrower - all spur-of-the-moment, impulse decisions. He didn't have one such opportune moment with The Joker? After multiple encounters?

It stretches credulity with me.

 

[Schlosser85]

Joker technically died in Suicide Squad.

When/how?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Even in the theatrical cut the implication that Batman's lethal force is a recent thing is very clear. It's not hard to imagine a few possible explanations for how Joker has stayed alive during the period of time between MoS and BvS. It's not a twenty year period Joker had to survive, more like a year and a half.

 

[Boom]

And how long had The Joker been sprung from Arkham prior to the events of SS, running his night club and presumably causing trouble during that time? BvS covers an 18-month period. The beginning of SS follows almost immediately after BvS, and The Joker is free from the jump. We can surmise he was on the loose during BvS.

The Metropolis Incident (where Superman objectively helped save the city) was enough to push Batman over that line, but The Joker (who was already a PROVEN mass murder) brutally killing one of his closest friends/family members wasn't? Different strokes I guess, guys. This all just gets too messy for me personally.

 

[Schlosser85]

Even in the theatrical cut the implication that Batman's lethal force is a recent thing is very clear. It's not hard to imagine a few possible explanations for how Joker has stayed alive during the period of time between MoS and BvS. It's not a twenty year period Joker had to survive, more like a year and a half.

Batman had other things on his mind. Like nursing a homicidal obsession with Superman.

 

[Boom]

By the way, you guys make a good point about the 20-year thing. I had not looked at it that way and you are right. The film clearly paints the "broken rule" as a more recent development.

 

[Da-Scribe]

And how long had The Joker been sprung from Arkham prior to the events of SS, running his night club and presumably causing trouble during that time? BvS covers an 18-month period. The beginning of SS follows almost immediately after BvS, and The Joker is free from the jump.

The Metropolis Incident was enough to push Batman over that line, but Joker brutally murdering one of his closest friends/family members wasn't? Different strokes I guess, guys. This all just gets too messy for me personally.

Lol, the “Metropolis incident” huh? You mean that little thing when aliens invaded and leveled an entire city, resulting in thousands of casualties with Bruce Wayne’s own employees being among them? Not trying to be a d-bag btw, but it’s just a funny way of articulating that event is all.

And look, I ain’t saying this Batman shouldn’t try to kill Joker. I’m sure he did at some point. But the idea that an event that would completely destroy humanity’s entire view of itself and its place in the universe wouldn’t have a more profound effect on him as a street level hero is crazy to me.

The death of Robin is heartbreaking, no doubt. But that’s the risk you take ultimately. There’s a degree of accountability you have to take on by recruiting a child to help you fight crime in the first place. Aliens though? Wtf do you even say to that? It’s completely out of anyone’s control and that was the central conceit of BvS and of Batman’s arc in particular.

 

[Enriquespy]

There is one obvious conclusion:

Batfleck doesn't kill. It just looks like he does. All those persons survived.

Even the branded ones that were killed in prison? They alive.

The guys in the meatballed car? Just a flesh wound.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I got Ayer’s og script, and I honestly dont remember if this was mentioned in the sscut we saw, but in the script, HQ mentions Batman beating Joker within an inch of his life, she also talks about mistah J getting a deal from a dentist.

 

[Boom]

Lol, the “Metropolis incident” huh? You mean that little thing when aliens invaded and leveled an entire city, resulting in thousands of casualties with Bruce Wayne’s own employees being among them? Not trying to be a d-bag btw, but it’s just a funny way of articulating that event is all.

And look, I ain’t saying this Batman shouldn’t try to kill Joker. I’m sure he did at some point. But the idea that an event that would completely destroy humanity’s entire view of itself and its place in the universe wouldn’t have a more profound effect on him as a street level hero is crazy to me.

The death of Robin is heartbreaking, no doubt. But that’s the risk you take ultimately. There’s a degree of accountability you have to take on by recruiting a child to help you fight crime in the first place. Aliens though? Wtf do you even say to that? It’s completely out of anyone’s control and that was the central conceit of BvS and of Batman’s arc in particular.

No offense taken. You make fair points.

 

[Schlosser85]

There is one obvious conclusion:

Batfleck doesn't kill. It just looks like he does. All those persons survived.

Even the branded ones that were killed in prison? They alive.

The guys in the meatballed car? Just a flesh wound.

This reminds me of the Funny Or Die (?) video where Batman thinks all the criminals he’s killing are just asleep.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I mean, just imagine your own job. Whatever it is. Maybe you’re a restaurant greeter. You work so hard at it. Then one day a ******* alien shows up, levels your workplace and then everyone says he’s the best greeter in the universe.

I’d wanna slap that alien too. I’d be wrong of course, but the desire would no doubt be there.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

And how long had The Joker been sprung from Arkham prior to the events of SS, running his night club and presumably causing trouble during that time? BvS covers an 18-month period. The beginning of SS follows almost immediately after BvS, and The Joker is free from the jump. We can surmise he was on the loose during BvS.

The Metropolis Incident (where Superman objectively helped save the city) was enough to push Batman over that line, but The Joker (who was already a PROVEN mass murder) brutally killing one of his closest friends/family members wasn't? Different strokes I guess, guys. This all just gets too messy for me personally.

I don't think it really matters which event was more traumatic to him, because Batman didn't only experience one of those events, he experienced both of them, and Batman is not great at moving on from tragedy, Metropolis was the breaking point that pushed him over the edge, but probably not the entirety of why he went over the edge. They show him staring at the Robin suit and talking about seeing good men go bad, etc. for a reason, he'd been through a lot of s*** even before Zod attacked.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Snyder got the reaction from the media and ppl around the world right. A bit too real for some. A Superman figure would not be 100% embraced. I think the next superman flick will totally be more fantastical and try to avoid real world issues or at least real world public moments etc. I’m a bit more cynical. A real world Supes would be injustice league supes.

 

[herolee10]

And how long had The Joker been sprung from Arkham prior to the events of SS, running his night club and presumably causing trouble during that time? BvS covers an 18-month period. The beginning of SS follows almost immediately after BvS, and The Joker is free from the jump. We can surmise he was on the loose during BvS.

The Metropolis Incident (where Superman objectively helped save the city) was enough to push Batman over that line, but The Joker (who was already a PROVEN mass murder) brutally killing one of his closest friends/family members wasn't? Different strokes I guess, guys. This all just gets too messy for me personally.

Agreed. I had a hard time buying that Batman would be willing to kill Superman and not the Joker.

 

[Wheels]

I do understand at least how Batman's whole existence could be shattered by Superman to the point he would lose his mind. I was talking about that years ago when people were pushing for the Nolan Batman to crossover with Superman.

It makes more sense if it's a guy we've seen in 3 movies that had no Lazarus Pit or science fiction monsters show up and that guy watches the events of Man of Steel, but it's so easy to make up some head canon with Zack Snyder's version that he's already seen some unbelievable things, so it's like you haven't seen some things in your day, brother?

Would have come off better if it was Nolan Batman or Reeves Batman, not so much the guy who realistically could have already dealt with monsters and immortal men just by the way Snyder's world comes off. Probably shouldn't be so comic booky or have an established Batman where you can fill in so many gaps if you want.