Episode 3: Lamentis (Spoiler Discussion)

[NHawk19]

Begs the question, are the timekeepers imprisoned in the Judge's office? She seems to be the only one who can hear them.

Yup pretty sure we can all agree Mobius and jet-skiing will relate to a past life. Either he sold them, competed on them, or sadder option became a variant when he was out on one with his kids.

Also Sylvie is spending a lot of time trying not to be Loki. She may be a Variant but I'm starting to think she's not a variant of Loki. She's just mimicking him, and using him as cover the same as she did the catastrophes. Really curious to finally find out her reason and how she found the TVA. She did seem surprised her Magic didn't work at the TVA. Was that the first time she was there?

God of Mischief aside, I can't see Loki getting hammered on an outing like that. Was he trying to through Sylvie off? Did seem like he was trying to do what Thor did on Earth, and he did learn how her power worked that way. Is the device really broken or was that a trick?

Remember the Episode opens with Sylvie aware and next to the TVA Agent who just "woke-up" in the dream. On the train it was Sylvie who woke up to Loki at the bar. Is Loki a quick learner? Did he enchant her on the train to learn more about her?

This episode went by pretty quick.

 

[Time Captain]

Jeremy Jahns on YT hated the episode, and he's a reasonable voice for the average viewer.

Blames the episode's Writing specifically.

 

[Da-Scribe]

It's definitely one of the weaker episodes so far. I still enjoyed it a lot, but it was really clear how strong Hiddleston's chemistry is with Wilson and just how great Wilson is in general. His presence was really missed personally, along with the TVA in general.

I think if we learned something more meaningful about Sylvie, the episode would've landed a bit better. Plus the cliffhanger felt more like it should've been the halfway mark for the episode. We already know they'll make it off Lamentis, so feel like the end of the episode should've been something Timekeeper/TVA related.

 

[Flash525]

The fact that magic and/or powers don't work in there for some reason and that they can travel between space and time is a pretty big indication that they are at least powerful in that sense alone. But I agree that there's *something* behind them.

I'll grant this, however could it not be that their magic (or maybe even technology) is what's halting foreign powers?

I know it's a different universe, but if we take the CW DC shows for a moment, metahuman powers can be disabled through dampeners - a technological marvel, or even mutant powers in the X-Men films (I swear there was a scene or mention that their powers don't work under certain conditions). Maybe there's simply some sort of device in the TVA that's dampening everything, rather than these time lords actually being all powerful.

The way I look at it/them; if they had that much power, and were that invested in Loki, they'd step in themselves, but they don't. They're obviously vulnerable.

And... They were all collected from Apocalypses. The Time Keepers or whomever had Sylvie's idea. Hide their work in the timelines via cataclysmic events that happen. So like Loki returning the Variants home may not be an option since they would likely be fated to die

I think it's safe to say we can rule this out.

Whatever happens at the end of the show, Loki will survive, and I think it's safe to say a vast majority of the TVA will too. Loki, Mobius or whoever can easily drop variants off at a different location to their origin, or even a new timeline - if this show is indeed the launch of the multiverse.

 

[Closerframe]

How are people still convinced Sylvie isn’t a Loki variant?

 

[Time Captain]

I'm more curious whether most of Episode 3 was just an illusion in Loki's mind. A dream.

He may be currently enchanted by Lady Loki, as she probes his mind.

 

[Venom 1988]

I feel like if it was supposed to be an illusion, that would have been the cliffhanger in episode 3.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

They will obviously get out of their current predicament but seeing how will be the fun part.

 

[Zarex]

How are people still convinced Sylvie isn’t a Loki variant?

Sylvie doesn't seem much at all like our favorite itty bitty frost giant. She barely knew her mom, didn't grow up as royalty and her enchantment abilities are self taught. We don't even know if Frigga and Odin were her parents or if Thor Odindotter was her sis. And I would think these Variants - even Tour de Asgard Loki - would have about a 90% commonality with each other.

One idea I thought made some sense that Sylvie is actually Loki's daughter, named after her absent papa. Someone - maybe Renslayer? - made up the Variant story to get Loki onto Team TVA. That could explain why Loki and Lady Loki appear to be nothing alike.

 

[Venom 1988]

One idea I thought made some sense that Sylvie is actually Loki's daughter, named after her absent papa. Someone - maybe Renslayer? - made up the Variant story to get Loki onto Team TVA. That could explain why Loki and Lady Loki appear to be nothing alike.

Her last name is Laufeydottir though, implying that she's Laufey's daughter as opposed to Loki's.

 

[legendkillin]

They will obviously get out of their current predicament but seeing how will be the fun part.

Think Mobius will come and get them.

 

[Gaultheria]

a planet ... colonized by Doctor Who

I liked the TARDIS groans and the ringing cloister bell when they entered the city.

 

[First Avenger]

Missed Mobius but loved the Ep regardless. She's definately an intriguing Loki variant I want to know more about, glad to hear about Loki's sexuality, and that One take at the end was quite awesome.

 

[JB33]

Question - why is Loki's and Sylvie's sexuality important? It all feels so superficial and forced. I didn't even catch that Sylvie is supposedly trans and now I have to read about it everywhere. Seriously, I just searched Kate Herron's name on Google - that's it - and at the top were several news stories about Loki's sexuality. Society is becoming obsessed with this stuff.

Anyway, I'm in the camp who enjoyed the previous two episodes more. I didn't dislike this one, though. I'm just a big fan of the TVA stuff and sort of the detective tone of it. Mobius is also a big part of that too.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Question - why is Loki's and Sylvie's sexuality important? It all feels so superficial and forced. I didn't even catch that Sylvie is supposedly trans and now I have to read about it everywhere. Seriously, I just searched Kate Herron's name on Google - that's it - and at the top were several news stories about Loki's sexuality. Society is becoming obsessed with this stuff.

Anyway, I'm in the camp who enjoyed the previous two episodes more. I didn't dislike this one, though. I'm just a big fan of the TVA stuff and sort of the detective tone of it. Mobius is also a big part of that too.

Metaphor has always been important in fiction, and people attempting to examine it and break it down isn't "obsession". It's normal human behavior.

Now, reacting this poorly to articles about gender and sexuality, especially while conflating them, probably says a lot more.

By the way, happy Pride month!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's almost as if the mainstream culture until very, very recently was awash in negative stereotypes about a segment of the population that's always been around but whom could never truthfully live as they wished to because of the impact to their lives or bodies or both.

It's almost as if things like sexual preferences ARE a part of a person and do matter.

It's almost as if the mention of the main character's romantic or sexual entanglements isn't out of bounds when discussing back story for the series based on said character.

It almost as if there was a whole entire episode based around picking up from the previous two where they mentioned Loki's past relationships for a split second and then got on with the story they are currently telling but some people are projecting their obsessions onto the world because they are uncomfortable with the idea that gay/bi/trans people exist and that there are fictional characters that exist that reflect this fact.

 

[JB33]

Being kind to others sure is tough work.

Nothing I've said makes me unkind. Nowhere have I attacked gay or trans people . We just live in a world now where expressing one's opinion is hate speech, at least when it goes against the narrative.

If Loki and Sylvie had been discussing their straight sexuality I still would have said the same thing. I feel like this stuff is shoehorned into pop culture because identity politics is itself pop culture right now. It's hip to announce to the world what you happen to identify as that day or which gender you sleep with or what your pronouns are.

This gaslighting tactic worked for awhile and a lot of us went on the defensive but I honestly couldn't care less what conclusions anyone comes to about me. That's what confidence and being secure in one's position can do for you.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Nothing I've said makes me unkind. Nowhere have I attacked gay or trans people . We just live in a world now where expressing one's opinion is hate speech, at least when it goes against the narrative.

If Loki and Sylvie had been discussing their straight sexuality I still would have said the same thing. I feel like this stuff is shoehorned into pop culture because identity politics is itself pop culture right now. It's hip to announce to the world what you happen to identify as that day or which gender you sleep with or what your pronouns are.

This gaslighting tactic worked for awhile and a lot of us went on the defensive but I honestly couldn't care less what conclusions anyone comes to about me. That's what confidence and being secure in one's position can do for you.

What is the narrative?

 

[JB33]

What is the narrative?

If you actually want to have a civil discussion I'd be happy to, but in a DM. I'm already being censored by the mods so I'm going to drop it here.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If you actually want to have a civil discussion I'd be happy to, but in a DM. I'm already being censored by the mods so I'm going to drop it here.

How have you been censored?

 

[flickchick85]

Nothing I've said makes me unkind. Nowhere have I attacked gay or trans people . We just live in a world now where expressing one's opinion is hate speech, at least when it goes against the narrative.

If Loki and Sylvie had been discussing their straight sexuality I still would have said the same thing. I feel like this stuff is shoehorned into pop culture because identity politics is itself pop culture right now. It's hip to announce to the world what you happen to identify as that day or which gender you sleep with or what your pronouns are.

This gaslighting tactic worked for awhile and a lot of us went on the defensive but I honestly couldn't care less what conclusions anyone comes to about me. That's what confidence and being secure in one's position can do for you.

Well that confidence and security has apparently made it more important for you to get in the last word than to heed my official warning, so enjoy your month off.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What is the narrative?

It's what lays the groundwork for "the agenda".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If you are one who does the basic human thing, and acknowledge the existence of other people and all the beautiful ways they come in, I do not understand why the mention of someone's race, sexuality, or gender is ever an issue for anyone. Do companies do it for brownie points a lot of the time they think will turn into good PR and money? Of course. But the idea that a variance (see what I did there) in the typical movie or television character is somehow a narrative or agenda beyond, "these people existence just like everyone else" doesn't hold water.

Also the use of LGBTQ+ characters goes back hundreds, no thousands of years in literature. Why is now an issue that they appear? Because people are actually telling you to be kind to your fellow human beings? What is there to take offence to?

 

[djsunyc]

vanity fair podcast compares the tva agents to the hosts in westworld. something will wake them up (loki) and they'll remember their past lives.

another theory is that old man loki (richard e grant?) is the one behind the tva b/c he wants to make sure he keeps his power.

good news - tom hiddleston said episode 4 and 5 are his favorites and are filled with action.

 

[djsunyc]

i'm still a bit surprised at how negatively folks are taking to this episode. but folks often do go into hyperboles when talking about the MCU - alot of folks "love it" or "hate it". very few live in between for the most part - especially within 24 hours of watching it.

i didn't mind this episode - it's just 1 chapter in a 6 episode book which is the tv show. i think the takeaway from this was to just establish loki & sylvie's relationship and some exposition of the tva agents. some of the dialogue was clunky but other than that, it was a quick 30 min episode and now we move onto the endgame now