Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[Drizzle]

I still think the first Iron Man is the best one, but I will say that Iron Man 3 has only gotten better with age.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The first Iron Man is the best one, and one also of the best CBMs of all time period. The MCU has like 4 great films, and IM is definitely one of them.

 

[Spider-Fan]

First Iron Man is easily best of that trilogy. Not much of a contest honestly

 

[Detective Conan]

I’m in the vast minority who doesn’t care for the first Iron Man movie and much prefers the third one, but I don’t mind mind being the lone one on the opinion table.

 

[Erzengel]

Up until 2014, I would have put Operation House Party in my Top 10 MCU scenes.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

IM2 was the writing on the wall for a lot of what the MCU would be, for good or ill.

When RDJ was cast I was like "Yeah... He can bring the issues inherent with Tony's addiction problem to the table while still being entertaining".

But IM2 gives us barely a scene and then the MCU runs away from that aspect as far as it can.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I’ll really judge the MCU by how they treat the Uncanny X-Men. I am sooooo curious by how they’ll go about using mutants and the tone they will set.

 

[Sithborg]

I’ll really judge the MCU by how they treat the Uncanny X-Men. I am sooooo curious by how they’ll go about using mutants and the tone they will set.

Sadly, what looks to be three MCU movies with no China release has sort of dashed any hope for those movies.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Sadly, what looks to be three MCU movies with no China release has sort of dashed any hope for those movies.

Do you mean that you think by the time the X-Men are ready for release that Disney will shave off anything "controversial" to get the film a berth in China's theaters?

 

[Sithborg]

Do you mean that you think by the time the X-Men are ready for release that Disney will shave off anything "controversial" to get the film a berth in China's theaters?

Absolutely.

 

[Snow Queen]

Judging from their Marvel embargo, by the time we get to X-Men Disney will have the team come out in support of China's treatment of the Uyghur people before the opening action sequence is done.

 

[Perfect Cell]

Judging from their Marvel embargo, by the time we get to X-Men Disney will have the team come out in support of China's treatment of the Uyghur people before the opening action sequence is done.

Iceman will be there, but he'll never directly interact with any of the other members.

 

[Snow Queen]

Iceman will be there, but he'll never directly interact with any of the other members.

Iceman exists purely as a series of reaction shots. All supportive of the CCP, of course.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Iceman will be there, but he'll never directly interact with any of the other members.

He will also die returning to his home planet before the first post credit scene.

 

[Ninjablade]

I get companies will do anything for money, but the way a lot of them get on their knees and beg like little whipping boys for the Chinese Government is truly something else.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I get companies will do anything for money, but the way a lot of them get on their knees and beg like little whipping boys for the Chinese Government is truly something else.

Movies are a business, and unfortunately, business controls the world.

Yet another reason why even the best comic book films can never be as good as the actual comics. Usually, it's just a matter of space (comics have much more time to develop ideas and character over a period), but even in situations like these--with any piece of art, the more money that's at stake, the more the investors want to make sure they get their money back (and profit). If the MCU X-Men films only cost a million bucks each, Disney wouldn't give a damn if they could release in China. But they don't, so...

I, for one, welcome our new entertainment overlords.

 

[Zarex]

I could see Icemaf

Movies are a business, and unfortunately, business controls the world.

Yet another reason why even the best comic book films can never be as good as the actual comics. Usually, it's just a matter of space (comics have much more time to develop ideas and character over a period), but even in situations like these--with any piece of art, the more money that's at stake, the more the investors want to make sure they get their money back (and profit). If the MCU X-Men films only cost a million bucks each, Disney wouldn't give a damn if they could release in China. But they don't, so...

I, for one, welcome our new entertainment overlords.

I dunno about that. I LOVE comic books and read a crap ton of them. But I think the stronger flicks and TV shows in the Golden Age of Superhero Cinema compare favorably to the best comic book stories.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I could see Icemaf


I dunno about that. I LOVE comic books and read a crap ton of them. But I think the stronger flicks and TV shows in the Golden Age of Superhero Cinema compare favorably to the best comic book stories.

I mean, I can name a few film versions of event stories that I found to be superior (in concept) to their comics counterparts, but by-and-large, the medium of comics (and television, too) is superior to film, for my money. The ability to give stories the amount of time to fully provide nuance and detail is better than having to condense things down for a film. Some stories are simple enough to be served well by a 2/2.5 hour runtime. But when you're dealing with things that are serialized, as superheroes are, an average trilogy of films may not cut it. The MCU is starting to have this problem licked because of the D+ shows. But think of Fox's X-Men, and how many characters were under-served due to the time constraints and the politics of advertising, marketability, actor control, financial appeal... That's how you get Wolverine being the star of the X-Men films and Cyclops exists not as a character, but as a punchline and romantic obstruction for Wolverine.

 

[Zarex]

I mean, I can name a few film versions of event stories that I found to be superior (in concept) to their comics counterparts, but by-and-large, the medium of comics (and television, too) is superior to film, for my money. The ability to give stories the amount of time to fully provide nuance and detail is better than having to condense things down for a film. Some stories are simple enough to be served well by a 2/2.5 hour runtime. But when you're dealing with things that are serialized, as superheroes are, an average trilogy of films may not cut it. The MCU is starting to have this problem licked because of the D+ shows. But think of Fox's X-Men, and how many characters were under-served due to the time constraints and the politics of advertising, marketability, actor control, financial appeal... That's how you get Wolverine being the star of the X-Men films and Cyclops exists not as a character, but as a punchline and romantic obstruction for Wolverine.

More time with the characters can definitely be an advantage, which is why I appreciate Marvel Studios keeping their Disney Plus TV shows in continuity (and was annoyed when Feige and company kept AOS and the Netflix shows on the outside looking in). But in comics you have the problem of too much time to fill, leading to the illusion of change, retcons, reboots, resurrections and the like. Though the great comics are still great, there's a lot of forgettable stuff. Or as Jim Starlin once put it during his Warlock run, diamonds amongst the garbage.

Using somewhat recent examples, I enjoyed Infinity War as much its primary comic book inspirations (Thanos Quest, Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity) and I thought WandaVision was a worthy MCU interpretation of King & Walta's The Vision. Though there are quite a few changes from the Fraction & Aja series, Hawkeye looks good as well.

Hopefully Marvel Studios will use their expanded streaming presence to give us at least a few X-Men TV shows to go along with their reboot movie.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honestly, I am starting to prefer the movies in many cases. Especially when they adapt newer stories. Both Winter Soldier and Civil War I liked so much better on film than comics for example. I sort of dislike where comics have gone from the mid 90s onward with some exceptions.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[DocLathropBrown]

More time with the characters can definitely be an advantage, which is why I appreciate Marvel Studios keeping their Disney Plus TV shows in continuity (and was annoyed when Feige and company kept AOS and the Netflix shows on the outside looking in). But in comics you have the problem of too much time to fill, leading to the illusion of change, retcons, reboots, resurrections and the like. Though the great comics are still great, there's a lot of forgettable stuff. Or as Jim Starlin once put it during his Warlock run, diamonds amongst the garbage.

There are definitely garbage comics, no doubt. Particularly, I'm not really much of a fan of where the industry has gone since about the mid-'90s. Constant events, needless tie-ins, books being sold on nothing but weak gimmicks... I guess in my heart-of-hearts, when I consider superiority, it's before the industry exploded and then put itself into this tightrope position of needing gimmick sales, to the detriment of storytelling. In the last decade, having read Chris Claremont's entire first run on X-Men and falling in love with the total storytelling freedom he managed to have in the late '70s, through the entire '80s and the very beginning of the '90s... it was there that I made peace with the times when CBMs most disappoint me. I looked at the Fox films and realized "how can they compete with such a great writer and his time and creative freedom?" Yeah, Chris couldn't just kill off anyone willy-nilly, but until the late '80s, he had little oversight from the higher-ups and was able to just tell the stories he wanted, with more elements gestating in the background, sometimes devoting whole issues to just character exploration, action be-damned. Even once the era of event comics started up, he was still granted the ability to control his end of things and maintain a high writing standard (I guess this helped by the fact that it was one event in a year and was much more focused on the mutants).

For me, the strength of Claremont's X-Men was in its devotion to character and subtlety, and you lose so much of that when you're short on time. But hey, punctuality is the thief of time.

 

[Zarex]

There are definitely garbage comics, no doubt. Particularly, I'm not really much of a fan of where the industry has gone since about the mid-'90s. Constant events, needless tie-ins, books being sold on nothing but weak gimmicks... I guess in my heart-of-hearts, when I consider superiority, it's before the industry exploded and then put itself into this tightrope position of needing gimmick sales, to the detriment of storytelling. In the last decade, having read Chris Claremont's entire first run on X-Men and falling in love with the total storytelling freedom he managed to have in the late '70s, through the entire '80s and the very beginning of the '90s... it was there that I made peace with the times when CBMs most disappoint me. I looked at the Fox films and realized "how can they compete with such a great writer and his time and creative freedom?" Yeah, Chris couldn't just kill off anyone willy-nilly, but until the late '80s, he had little oversight from the higher-ups and was able to just tell the stories he wanted, with more elements gestating in the background, sometimes devoting whole issues to just character exploration, action be-damned. Even once the era of event comics started up, he was still granted the ability to control his end of things and maintain a high writing standard (I guess this helped by the fact that it was one event in a year and was much more focused on the mutants).

For me, the strength of Claremont's X-Men was in its devotion to character and subtlety, and you lose so much of that when you're short on time. But hey, punctuality is the thief of time.

I spent this summer reading and re-reading much of the first half of Claremont's Uncanny run - from #94 to #198 - and unlike a lot of stuff from that time his stuff still (mostly) holds up. It would be awfully tough to capture the spirit of his run on film, but hopefully Feige and company will fully commit when it's time for the mutants to enter the MCU.