The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Babillygunn]

I really enjoyed Tomasi’s ‘Tec this week. When he turns on the heart, he is in his element.

 

[Babillygunn]

DC Sets September Date For Batman Day 2020 | Hollywood Reporter

I respect the creativity in the midst of COVID.

 

[Mani-Man]

Cant believe its almost time for Batman day, feels like yesterday we had the one 2019.
They have a hand with doing stuff like that during the pandemic.

Spoiler

I continue to be really happy with DCeased – Dead Planet.
At first i wasnt sure if the DC version of Marvels Zombies could work, but it really did.
The whole DCeased section is better than i ever expected.
Hope at Worlds End 8 was so nice with the focus on the Animals and all, felt really genuine to me.

Justice league 52 was pretty neat, i liked the whole arc in general.
Okay the whole "bruce has a vision etc about his parents and they tell him he can be more" is a old hat, but it also always works for me.
Those few pages showed me again what i want from Batman.
This character that doesnt just punch villians because those villians often are the result of tragedy...so he helps them.
Thats the kind of batman/Bruce i want to see more and with more consistency.

Batman #98

Tynion and Jimenez are a dream team, they work so well together...reminds me off Snyder and Capullo...with the exception that Tynion is a better writer.
I love that we have a "evil" to the core female villian, those dont come too often.
Punchline has become a really neat character pretty fast, and i have high hopes for the future additions Tynion creates in the batman universe.
But damn do i need a reboot fast after this issue.

First because of Alfred...screw you tom king.
Tynion did his best to make alfreds death mean something, have a purpose and weight...more so than the guy who actually wrote alfreds death just for shock value.
But i want him back as soon as possible, Alfred is greatly missed.

Reason two is that the end of the issue had batman call the family...a family that has been neglected for a long time now.
So it feels weird that he now calls them expecting them all to come in and help save the day.
I want my batfamily being whole and actually close, talk to each other and all that.
Not being used as some kind of trump card you then throw away again.
I mean has anybody checked in with damian since alfreds death?
I get they all have their own adventures etc, but that doesnt mean you cant throw in some panels that show them as an actual family and stuff.
When was the last time they were seen together in a comic? In that one Issue months ago where they left on rather bad terms? And now suddenly bruce calls and they all come back running?
Eh, maybe i think too much about this...i trust Tynion that he finds a way to make this work somehow.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

So when is Superman Day or does he not get one.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Does any other superhero get one?

 

[NDX]

Captain America sorta gets the 4th of July?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Captain America sorta gets the 4th of July?

I guess that makes sense!

 

[Mani-Man]

So when is Superman Day or does he not get one.

Dont we have that on june 12th?
Or wait no, why is there even a Batman day? Never thought about that to be honest.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Hey all.

How do you define a comic book 'event'?

For me it's always been a story with the potential to bring about profound, far-reaching changes in the [insert publisher] comics universe. So Crisis on Infinite Earths, Flashpoint, Dark Nights: Metal, would all fit; but a superhero wedding, or the birth of their child wouldn't - no matter how much real world publicity (and sales) it generated.

Death of Superman would count. The implications of Superman not being around any more were massive for the inhabitants of the DC Universe. But Knightfall wouldn't; although it was a big thing that Bruce Wayne was no longer Batman, and might never be again (okay, we all knew he'd be back), the implications for the inhabitants of the wider DC Universe were nowhere near as big. I guess an argument could be made for calling that one a mini-event.

Does anybody here view it differently? Are there alternative or additional criteria for you? Does an 'event' have to crossover many titles? Does it have to run for a minimum period of time or number of issues?

I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts

 

[Babillygunn]

Hey all.

How do you define a comic book 'event'?

For me it's always been a story with the potential to bring about profound, far-reaching changes in the [insert publisher] comics universe. So Crisis on Infinite Earths, Flashpoint, Dark Nights: Metal, would all fit; but a superhero wedding, or the birth of their child wouldn't - no matter how much real world publicity (and sales) it generated.

Death of Superman would count. The implications of Superman not being around any more were massive for the inhabitants of the DC Universe. But Knightfall wouldn't; although it was a big thing that Bruce Wayne was no longer Batman, and might never be again (okay, we all knew he'd be back), the implications for the inhabitants of the wider DC Universe were nowhere near as big. I guess an argument could be made for calling that one a mini-event.

Does anybody here view it differently? Are there alternative or additional criteria for you? Does an 'event' have to crossover many titles? Does it have to run for a minimum period of time or number of issues?

I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts

This is a really good question. I think I would be even more restrictive and say that an event needs to impact the entire comic universe, include a pretty significant involvement of multiple characters and have at least the opportunity to change continuity.

It’s important to note that events don’t necessarily mean better stories. Obviously Tower of Babel is not an event. It’s a relatively short arc. But it is easily superior to something like Dark Knights Metal, which is an event.

I’d agree that Knightfall, or No Man’s Land are not events, even though I’d read either of those any day of the week over Metal. I probably would not characterize Death of Superman as an event as it focused primarily on Superman, even though it impacted the entire universe. But I’d say that is due more to the importance that Supes has on DC than anything else.
The hard ones for me would be something more like Sinestro Corps War, which brought in most of DC’s heroes, but they were primarily background in a Green Lantern story. Similarly, Drowned Earth or Forever Evil used most of DC’s roster but didn’t really have continuity altering stakes. These are harder questions.
One thing that I feel is obvious is that Scott Snyder would probably say that everything he writes in an “event” story.

 

[Mani-Man]

A very good question.

Its hard to say, i would probably say a "event" is something "big" that affects the DC universe in a bigger way than normal.
But when you think about it, every story in theory can do that.

So at what point is it a event?

I would say Knightfall is an event because it took out Bruce, who is a driving force not just in Gotham but in the Justice League.
And him being Broken and not being able to be Batman, is something huge that coud cause many problems.
But if thats the case then pretty much every story could be considered an event.

I mean is Bruce being gone less "important" than Superman dying just because in Superman is more Powerfull?
Both wouldnt be there to help and protect.
But i would argue that the scale is different, Superman isnt just in Metropolis while Batman mostly operates in Gotham.
So Supermans death despite Batman being part of the Justice league and all, has a bigger effect.

But i dont know, i always accepted "events" as something that crosses over, impacts current runs.
Maybe that is just because of how they are framed to be this larger storylines than normal.

Its a interesting topic to talk about for sure.

 

[gohei_]

New 52 Detective Comics, have you guys read it and would you recommended it?
I was looking at The latest video from Near Mint Condition and he was showing this run and I Really liked the art in it and got Kinda curious.
I have read and enjoyed the N52 Batman run.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

It’s important to note that events don’t necessarily mean better stories.

No argument there. Look at Armageddon 2001. The concept was interesting. It ran across pretty much the whole DC line (annuals), and promised a huge 'shock revelation that would change everything'. In the end, the thing that 'changed' was an 11th hour alteration to the big reveal (a reveal so bad that DC were forced to retcon it - twice) and the whole story ended up being one of the most disliked in DC's history. As far as I know it's still never been collected.

One thing that I feel is obvious is that Scott Snyder would probably say that everything he writes in an “event” story.

True!

I mean is Bruce being gone less "important" than Superman dying just because in Superman is more Powerfull?
Both wouldnt be there to help and protect.
But i would argue that the scale is different, Superman isnt just in Metropolis while Batman mostly operates in Gotham.
So Supermans death despite Batman being part of the Justice league and all, has a bigger effect.

Yes, that's pretty much how I see that one.

So what do you guys feel about say Identity Crisis, or more recently Heroes in Crisis? I wouldn't call those 'events' (have to say I'm not up to date with any fallout from HiC - Flash Forward is still on my 'to read' pile), but I've seen some people refer to them in that way.

 

[Mani-Man]

New 52 Detective Comics, have you guys read it and would you recommended it?
I was looking at The latest video from Near Mint Condition and he was showing this run and I Really liked the art in it and got Kinda curious.
I have read and enjoyed the N52 Batman run.

I loved it, it was a pretty cool run.
Its been a while since i read it but i think during the end it gets a bit less good because they had to follow the Batman run and do the whole "Gordon is batrobot" thing.
The art is super neat yeah, but its in general a cool run imo.

So what do you guys feel about say Identity Crisis, or more recently Heroes in Crisis? I wouldn't call those 'events' (have to say I'm not up to date with any fallout from HiC - Flash Forward is still on my 'to read' pile), but I've seen some people refer to them in that way.

Identity Crisis i wouldnt say is an 'event', more a build up to one, Infinite Crisis.
I never felt like Identity Crisis was such a "big" deal because Infinite Crisis followed and was the "real" 'event'.
But then, it leads up to it...but no, personally i wouldnt call identity crisis an event.

Dont know about heroes in crisis, it doesnt feel like its a story on a larger scale.
It feels more intimate and Raw, not what i would have in mind thinking about an 'event'.

A short search when it comes to it, tells me that there seems to be the general opinion that storylines that cross over are considered 'events'...which kinda takes away from feeling special because according to wikipedia, since rebirth we have 22 'events' and thats way too much and makes 'events' feel less important.
But then we are talking about comics, where people rarely stay dead(which i hope is the case for Alfred...i miss alfred....Alllllllffffffrreeeedddd XD) and all.

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

I don’t consider Identity Crisis an event. It doesn’t have that epic scale feel to it like Infinite Crisis. I keep my copy of it in my Justice League section of my trades.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

A short search when it comes to it, tells me that there seems to be the general opinion that storylines that cross over are considered 'events'...which kinda takes away from feeling special because according to wikipedia, since rebirth we have 22 'events' and thats way too much and makes 'events' feel less important.
But then we are talking about comics, where people rarely stay dead(which i hope is the case for Alfred...i miss alfred....Alllllllffffffrreeeedddd XD) and all.

Storylines crossing over being the sole criterion for an 'event' is ridiculous! As you point out, we'd be swimming in them! Brotherhood of the Fist ran five issues and spanned four titles (Green Arrow (twice), Detective Comics, Robin, and Nightwing). It's one of my favourite storylines, but I wouldn't call it an event.


@Mani-Man @Babillygunn @MMMMM...Pancakes (and anybody else!)
Thinking about it some more, I feel an event should have scale, depth, length (admittedly this is a sticky one; I'm hesitant to say 'it must be X number of issues'), emotional weight, and significant consequence. When I read an event I want to feel 'This story needed to be told'. How does that sound? Would you add anything to those? Would you take any of them out?

 

[CrimsonMist]

Interesting question.

I approach event comics the way we approach holidays. For example, Crisis on Infinite Earths is definitely Christmas. It's massive. You can't escape it. Everyone's aware of it and (most) everyone always participates in it.

Event Leviathan is still an event, but it's like President's Day. It's there. You know it's there. Some people (apparently) are into it. But everyone else kinda shrugs it off.

Heroes In Crisis or Legends is like Easter. It's there, and it's acknowledged as being pretty important, even though it never quite feels that way. You can participate in it if you want, but it's always half-hearted and never quite as exciting as a bigger holiday.

Death Metal i'd argue is like Thanksgiving and Black Friday combined. It's unavoidable, everyone participates, it's fundamentally insane and it's just LOUD.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Interesting question.

I approach event comics the way we approach holidays. For example, Crisis on Infinite Earths is definitely Christmas. It's massive. You can't escape it. Everyone's aware of it and (most) everyone always participates in it.

Event Leviathan is still an event, but it's like President's Day. It's there. You know it's there. Some people (apparently) are into it. But everyone else kinda shrugs it off.

Heroes In Crisis or Legends is like Easter. It's there, and it's acknowledged as being pretty important, even though it never quite feels that way. You can participate in it if you want, but it's always half-hearted and never quite as exciting as a bigger holiday.

Death Metal i'd argue is like Thanksgiving and Black Friday combined. It's unavoidable, everyone participates, it's fundamentally insane and it's just LOUD.

I like your analogies!

 

[Mani-Man]

Storylines crossing over being the sole criterion for an 'event' is ridiculous! As you point out, we'd be swimming in them! Brotherhood of the Fist ran five issues and spanned four titles (Green Arrow (twice), Detective Comics, Robin, and Nightwing). It's one of my favourite storylines, but I wouldn't call it an event.

Yeah, its weird if that is what makes them events.
We have cross overs all few months in smaller stories etc, them being considered events according to this logic...would be just weird.

@Mani-Man @Babillygunn @MMMMM...Pancakes (and anybody else!)
Thinking about it some more, I feel an event should have scale, depth, length (admittedly this is a sticky one; I'm hesitant to say 'it must be X number of issues'), emotional weight, and significant consequence. When I read an event I want to feel 'This story needed to be told'. How does that sound? Would you add anything to those? Would you take any of them out?

Yup, thats what i would consider the neccessary things a 'event' needs to have to be one.
You could argue that every story should feel like it needs to be told.
But an event should feel like this all plus 10.

I like @CrimsonMist mindset on it.
Have it be different "kind" of events.
But then again, how do you categorize what kind of event what is?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I like @CrimsonMist mindset on it.
Have it be different "kind" of events.
But then again, how do you categorize what kind of event what is?

True - and we could get events that fit under one 'heading', or equally well under another! Then where would we be?

I absolutely agree, having too many events just makes them seem not so special. Sales dropping? Continuity screw-up that needs fixing? Quick, break out the emergency event!

I'm a sucker for a good, 'dials up to 11' crossover event, a real epic that just blows me away. Of course, whenever the company lands it and gives us a good one, it can make it a little harder for the next. Events inevitably get judged against their predecessor. I think some of the problem can come from the mindset that 'to top the last one, this one must be bigger!', which isn't necessarily the case. If scale, depth, length, emotional weight, and consequence should all be present, that doesn't mean the main emphasis has to be the same. For example, I'd say the original Crisis's selling points were undoubtedly scale and consequence. Whereas with Flashpoint for me it was emotional weight and depth (I know consequence was a big part of it seeing as how it rebooted the DCU, but that always felt 'tagged on' - as of course, it was).

 

[Babillygunn]

I too love the analogies @CrimsonMist.

My knee-jerk reaction is that the test for whether a story is an event is akin to former US Supreme Justice Potter Stewart’s test for what constitutes “obscenity:” he said “I know it when I see it.”

Crimson’s answer is so good because I think it recognizes what I am wrestling with in this question, which is that there are way too many “events” nowadays and most of them aren’t good. Or at least aren’t needed or aren’t impactful. It seems unfair to the great event stories like CoIE and Infinite Crises that stories like Metal or Event Leviathan would be considered event stories. But I guess we have to recognize that they are.

It is clear that not all events are created equal and these days they are a dime a dozen.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Agreed @Babillygunn, there are too many so called 'events'. I also feel the lines between 'team-up' and 'event' have become blurred. If a story features Green Lantern and Batman working together and spans GL's titles and Batman's titles for a couple of months, that in itself doesn't make it an event. And I'm not saying that DC would necessarily promote it as such, but there are fans who would see it that way.

 

[Babillygunn]

Agreed @Babillygunn, there are too many so called 'events'. I also feel the lines between 'team-up' and 'event' have become blurred. If a story features Green Lantern and Batman working together and spans GL's titles and Batman's titles for a couple of months, that in itself doesn't make it an event. And I'm not saying that DC would necessarily promote it as such, but there are fans who would see it that way.

I don’t know. “The Button” was pretty heavily promoted. I know it was supposed to be a lead up to Doomsday Clock but they bordered on promoting it as an event, even though it was a two issue team-up

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I don’t know. “The Button” was pretty heavily promoted. I know it was supposed to be a lead up to Doomsday Clock but they bordered on promoting it as an event, even though it was a two issue team-up

Okay, that's interesting about The Button. Definitely a team-up, not an event in itself.

What about continuity? Going back to 'significant consequences' being a necessary part of an 'event' (if you agree with that), Elseworld-type stories to me don't really have that. They may shake things up on that particular 'Earth', but that Earth may be one we've seldom (if ever seen) before. So however much I might enjoy the story, the stakes aren't 'real' enough for it to qualify as an event (otherwise Kingdom Come would rank as my favourite event of all!).

 

[Babillygunn]

Okay, that's interesting about The Button. Definitely a team-up, not an event in itself.

What about continuity? Going back to 'significant consequences' being a necessary part of an 'event' (if you agree with that), Elseworld-type stories to me don't really have that. They may shake things up on that particular 'Earth', but that Earth may be one we've seldom (if ever seen) before. So however much I might enjoy the story, the stakes aren't 'real' enough for it to qualify as an event (otherwise Kingdom Come would rank as my favourite event of all!).

Absolutely. I would not consider an elseworlds story to be an event. It is a different animal. Kingdom Come is one of, if not my favorite stories ever written. But I wouldn’t call it an event. Neither is Dark Knight Returns or Gotham by Gaslight. I agree that continuity is essential. During elseworlds stories, the writers have the luxury of playing with house money because the stakes do not impact continuity. Good writers use that for the better. (See Mark Waid and Kingdom Come, or Tom King’s Mister Miracle/Omega Men). Others not so much (See Scott Snyder and Last Knight on Earth).