The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 54

[LvtLeeTDK]

Klopp 2 years ago

 

[spidey-dude]

lets be fair he's built us organically, net transfer spend since FSG came in is £25m a season (pre-Allison) whilst commercial revenues have gone up along with TV deals and last season champions league progression. Now we'ev cleared some (if not all?) of the debt we can spend money on problem areas and this is absolutely the summer to pull the trigger after the last campaign. Love how we're going out and actually getting our targets as opposed ti wheelign and dealing and settling for our 5th+ target as we have before

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When Liverpool sign Allison they'll jump to the front of the queue of City's biggest challengers for the league this coming season.

And this would be a bad assumption imo.

 

[DeadPresident]

Wonder what the first team lineup will look like now.

Probably Allison, Clyne (if fully fit), van Dyk, Lovren, Robertson, Keita, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Salah, Mane, Firmino I would say - if Klopp keeps to his 4-3-3 setup.

And this would be a bad assumption imo.

I'm not sure, I think perhaps they need another high quality CB to partner van Dyk but it'll put them pretty close to being the second best team in the league in terms of having shored up previous issues.

At least in terms of current transfers improving their teams Liverpool have done the most to plug their gaps compared to everyone else.

 

[Mandon Knight]

And this would be a bad assumption imo.

After all, we are Liverpool, we could take a winning hand in a card game with no one else left holding any cards and still not win.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Love how we're going out and actually getting our targets as opposed to wheeling and dealing and settling for our 5th+ target as we have before

This. Usually, we've so slow off the blocks that as SD is saying, we've had to pick over the bones of what's left after everybody else has eaten steak.

 

[Iceman]

Probably Allison, Clyne (if fully fit), van Dyk, Lovren, Robertson, Keita, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Salah, Mane, Firmino I would say - if Klopp keeps to his 4-3-3 setup.

Looking very good. Poor Hendo, losing his starting place though!

 

[Iceman]

And this would be a bad assumption imo.

Who are you thinking will challenge City most next season?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Who are you thinking will challenge City most next season?

United. Because as much hate as Jose gets, he knows how to win matches as well as anyone, and United have an oddly underrated squad.

 

[Iceman]

United. Because as much hate as Jose gets, he knows how to win matches as well as anyone, and United have an oddly underrated squad.

There is so much more to get out of the players you have. But after all Mourinho’s previous successes he’s struggling with a few of them. If Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial and Rashford start firing next season then things will be very different. I just don’t know if DG Mourinho has the individual player motivation and overall squad motivation powers that Klopp has at the moment. The players too often prefer being somewhere they can play like that. Should be interesting anyway, and matches between Liverpool and Utd even more so than normal.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Oh yeah, that’s what I meant by bad patch. I was aware of you wanting to see half decent football again more than trophies. Same for me always and I’ve never seen my club win anything (well except for those 2 Championship titles).

Football is entertainment, if all that matters was winning trophies then 95% of the teams in Europe would have no support at all.

United. Because as much hate as Jose gets, he knows how to win matches as well as anyone, and United have an oddly underrated squad.

I'll take that bet.

 

[DeadPresident]

I hate to be so pessimistic but if Mourinho was going to get our impressive attacking talent firing he would've done it already. Martial was one of the most promising young players in the world, not that unlike Mbappe, a couple of seasons ago and now he's some random that can't even get into the French side.

Then we've got established talent like Sanchez, Lukaku, and Pogba that look impeccable with their national teams and amateur strangers when they're together for United - it ain't happening and even if it does it'll be that dreary utilitarian football Chelsea played when he won them the league recently.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Football is entertainment, if all that matters was winning trophies then 95% of the teams in Europe would have no support at all.

[YT]b5-iJUuPWis[/YT]

I'll take that bet.

You Brits sure love the betting.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I hate to be so pessimistic but if Mourinho was going to get our impressive attacking talent firing he would've done it already. Martial was one of the most promising young players in the world, not that unlike Mbappe, a couple of seasons ago and now he's some random that can't even get into the French side.

Then we've got established talent like Sanchez, Lukaku, and Pogba that look impeccable with their national teams and amateur strangers when they're together for United - it ain't happening and even if it does it'll be that dreary utilitarian football Chelsea played when he won them the league recently.

Martial is no where near the talent or temperament of Mbappe.

I do find it interesting that as awful as we apparently were last season, we finished a clear second in the league. Not that it matters. That isn't a trophy. But last year was the first year we haven't had to worry about qualifying for the CL in a long time.

 

[DeadPresident]

Martial is no where near the talent or temperament of Mbappe.

I do find it interesting that as awful as we apparently were last season, we finished a clear second in the league. Not that it matters. That isn't a trophy. But last year was the first year we haven't had to worry about qualifying for the CL in a long time.

He doesn't, no, but he should be a lot better performing that he has been - he should've been on an upward trajectory consistently instead of dropping and going up. We should be seeing visible improvement from him but it's not coming off.

I think we were dead average last season and a couple of teams under-performed and unless we improve to the same degree they do we will fall behind. It's a combination of our sluggish improvement and the often unwatchable football that keeps me pessimistic.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He doesn't, no, but he should be a lot better performing that he has been - he should've been on an upward trajectory consistently instead of dropping and going up. We should be seeing visible improvement from him but it's not coming off.

I think we were dead average last season and a couple of teams under-performed and unless we improve to the same degree they do we will fall behind. It's a combination of our sluggish improvement and the often unwatchable football that keeps me pessimistic.

How much of that is his fault though? Also if Jose prefers Rashford or Lingard because of their effort in general, is that wrong?

If we give Jose what he wants, and he doesn't succeed, I would be more pessimistic. We don't give him what he wants, so he has to make it work and he has made it work legitimately so far.

 

[Iceman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44877812
The Ox will be out most of the season.

 

[DeadPresident]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44877812
The Ox will be out most of the season.

Huge shame to hear that, it must have been an extremely severe injury because he's already been recovering for at least two months.

How much of that is his fault though? Also if Jose prefers Rashford or Lingard because of their effort in general, is that wrong?

If we give Jose what he wants, and he doesn't succeed, I would be more pessimistic. We don't give him what he wants, so he has to make it work and he has made it work legitimately so far.

It's not wrong - but we have examples of creative/attacking players with little defensive responsibility who flourish, and I think Martial's ceiling of potential is being completely wasted to get a trivial amount of defensive output out of him. Instead of him having to contribute at the back we should be signing high quality full backs that don't need to be babysat by a winger.

While I agree with the second part, I'm wondering how much more United needs to deliver - and it seems like Mourinho doesn't want much more because we're signing average players this window so clearly there can't be emergency holes that need to be filled in his mind. Mourinho has added Bailly, Lindelof, Matic, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Lukaku, and Sanchez - 2 CBs, 2 CMs, 2 attacking mids, and a #9 - if we get two solid FBs and get the same outcome as last season when is enough enough?

 

[DeadPresident]

In some La Liga transfer news, Barcelona seem to be close to signing Adrien Rabiot from PSG for around £35-£40m which seems like really good business. He's a young player and I've always liked what I've seen of him when I've watched him play for PSG.

 

[Kaleb]

Fulham are apparently ready to activate Wilmar Barrios's release clause.

 

[Hunter Rider]

[YT]b5-iJUuPWis[/YT]

You Brits sure love the betting.

Lol, I actually rarely bet, only on the International football tournaments, and I've won each time on top scorer and cup winner, but I only bet when I'm very confident I'll win, hence the France vs Croatia bet I offered you, same thing here.

I do find it interesting that as awful as we apparently were last season, we finished a clear second in the league. Not that it matters. That isn't a trophy. But last year was the first year we haven't had to worry about qualifying for the CL in a long time.

Liverpool's focus was on the CL which allowed us to finish second the way we did, and even then we stumbled there performance-wise, us Liverpool and Spurs looked like a bunch of cartoon kippers fumbling around behind City.

How much of that is his fault though? Also if Jose prefers Rashford or Lingard because of their effort in general, is that wrong?

Yes.

If we give Jose what he wants, and he doesn't succeed, I would be more pessimistic. We don't give him what he wants, so he has to make it work and he has made it work legitimately so far.

This is the crux of the matter, the fans and obviously some on the board will never surrender over the identity of the club to him, that is why we don't have any business done, what Mourinho wants and what the fans/board want are not alligned, and never will be.

 

[Iceman]

[YT]b5-iJUuPWis[/YT]

Darth, that guy is right. You play to win the game. But not everyone can play to win the title or the Champions League. Before Mike Ashley turned up I had as great an experience from supporting my club as anyone and have memories that will never go. I wouldn’t trade those for a bunch of titles. I want a return to the football of those days more so than any title. Then you can enjoy every game even when you lose and regardless of how your season goes, and any titles would just be a huge bonus. Losing 4-3 to Liverpool was one of my favourite matches. t:

 

[Iceman]

Football is entertainment, if all that matters was winning trophies then 95% of the teams in Europe would have no support at all.

Yes. Simply winning itself now has huge value, but directly because football has been entertaining global audiences the most over decades. Just winning doesn’t count for much in unpopular sports as you don’t get much recognition and isn’t that much different than beating your sister at monopoly.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What do you play the game for then Hunter? Serious question. If the idea is to not win the match the club is presented with, what is the point?

Lol, I actually rarely bet, only on the International football tournaments, and I've won each time on top scorer and cup winner, but I only bet when I'm very confident I'll win, hence the France vs Croatia bet I offered you, same thing here.

Very wise. t:

Liverpool's focus was on the CL which allowed us to finish second the way we did, and even then we stumbled there performance-wise, us Liverpool and Spurs looked like a bunch of cartoon kippers fumbling around behind City.

I don't disagree everyone else kind of sucked last year, though it is relative. Especially as United could have won the league with that point count in more then a few seasons.

Yes.

Why?

This is the crux of the matter, the fans and obviously some on the board will never surrender over the identity of the club to him, that is why we don't have any business done, what Mourinho wants and what the fans/board want are not alligned, and never will be.

And I don't get this idea, as when given what he wants, the only time Jose plays "bad" football, is when he has to. His Chelsea the first time around and his Madrid played really good football. His Inter played good football, when not playing obviously superior teams. It allows his flair players to be flair players, and not asked to do other things. Asking him to make it work, is stupid and is just spinning the wheels for no reason.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Darth, that guy is right. You play to win the game. But not everyone can play to win the title or the Champions League. Before Mike Ashley turned up I had as great an experience from supporting my club as anyone and have memories that will never go. I wouldn’t trade those for a bunch of titles. I want a return to the football of those days more so than any title. Then you can enjoy every game even when you lose and regardless of how your season goes, and any titles would just be a huge bonus. Losing 4-3 to Liverpool was one of my favourite matches. t:

Maybe this is an America thing, but I think something that should be pointed out is Newcastle was trying to win then. That is the thing. Even for teams that never win anything, trying feels good. 4-3 sounds nice, but if you play that same football and it ends up 7-3, does that feel the same? Like look at Leicester City. Do we think we can compare just playing good football, to win they won the title? When ever Roma broke through, or Atletico, what mattered was they did it. Atletico plays "bad" football. Do you think their fans rather play good football, instead of contending?

There is a lovable loser quality to the vast majority of football clubs. But there is also a reason the biggest clubs across Europe are the biggest clubs across Europe. Why City and Chelsea suddenly have a lot more fans then they use to. Why PSG will end up a globe powerhouse.