The Superhero Cinematic Civil War

[MadVillainy]

But what would have made Antman 3 a smash at the box office though? I dont think trying to make it important is why it failed. I think people just didnt care, they didnt give audiences a compelling enough reason to see an Antman 3. And yes, it didnt help that the actual movie was very whatever.

I think that is the challenge marvel faces now, they cant just make a 2 hour romp with these likable characters anymorr, there needs to be a compelling hook to get butts into seats.

A better movie. Not a great answer but we're over thinking it. The movie wasn't good in many people's subjective opinion so it didn't do that well. Doesn't matter if it was an important movie or if it was just a fun romp like AMatW, people didn't think it was good so it didn't sell

 

[MadVillainy]

You know I’m thinking more and more in retrospect it was a big mistake to keep Carol separate from the other Avengers crew in Endgame. she should have been a part of the core remaining team time hopping and acquiring the infinity stones. Because that would have allowed us to get to know her more and interact with the established Avengers and it would have made the audience fall in love with the character more and become more invested in her which ultimately would have greatly helped this movie i think.

I've thought for a while that not including Carol and Wong as part of the time heist was a mistake, at least in-universe. I get that the filmmakers wanted to center it more on the original six Avengers (plus a few others) but the team not involving two of the most powerful people they know in their plan is an oversight on their part. Of course none of them knew that past Thanos would come after them but even without that factor the whole mission was a risky one.

Yeah I've had the similar opinion since around 2020.
They should've had Carol be more involved in Endgame. She is written away very lazily to the point where I don't know why they introduced her at that time in the first place. Really they should've done the Black Widow movie in 2019 and had Captain Marvel after Endgame with how they wrote her in Endgame.

Also think Nick Fury should've been part of the time heist. Don't know why he wasn't. He's an OG member

 

[MadVillainy]

Wait did I miss it? Is Cap: Brave New World in trouble

 

[Iceman]

Wait did I miss it? Is Cap: Brave New World in trouble

5 months of reshoots.

Report: Captain America: Brave New World to Undergo Extensive Reshoots

The Marvel Studios film Captain America: Brave New World (formerly known as Captain America: New World Order), starring Anthony Mackie and Harrison Ford, will reportedly reshoot several major scenes before its theatrical release.

www.superherohype.com

 

[kguillou]

Wait did I miss it? Is Cap: Brave New World in trouble

Theyre basically reshooting the whole movie, brother. So yeah…its in trouble

 

[MadVillainy]

Cold world

 

[Iceman]

Yeah I've had the similar opinion since around 2020.
They should've had Carol be more involved in Endgame. She is written away very lazily to the point where I don't know why they introduced her at that time in the first place. Really they should've done the Black Widow movie in 2019 and had Captain Marvel after Endgame with how they wrote her in Endgame.

Also think Nick Fury should've been part of the time heist. Don't know why he wasn't. He's an OG member

I liked the Black Widow film but it definitely needed to come out earlier.

I wish Carol had been more deeply integrated ahead of Endgame. It felt like a guest star appearance the way it was done, rather than one of the team/family.

Nick Fury also definitely should have been involved. I wouldn’t mind so much about his MCU future but this was the big event capping off the first 3 phases where he played an important part.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Hindsight is 20/20, but delaying this movie to like March or even May after the latest delays and leaving Deadpool 3 as only 2024 release theatrically couldn't have hurt.

 

[mclay18]

I’m still stunned The Marvels is doing worse than The Flash. It’s a combination of too much CBM product and better scripts required before shooting.

 

[Drizzle]

Also think Nick Fury should've been part of the time heist. Don't know why he wasn't. He's an OG member

I can see why he was dusted from a storytelling perspective but I think he was way too sidelined in Phase 3 in general. He should have factored more into the plot of Infinity War but I’m still perplexed by his complete absence in Civil War. He was literally responsible for assembling the Avengers and he’s MIA for the whole Sokovia Accords ordeal?

 

[Spider-Fan]

There isn't any 1 single silver bullet I think in explaining what's going on with The Marvels. There are several factors in why it's not performing well, and you can take your pick as to which is the most relevant. I think the grand takeaway is Marvel Studios needs to have what they called a Come to Jesus meeting at one of my former jobs. One where they take a hard look at what they're doing that isn't working, and start course correcting. It's too late to correct projects they already started filming cause they're too far along and can only be salvaged to a certain degree at this point. But they need to start fixing what they're doing starting with the next wave of content that's about to go in front of a camera

 

[Iceman]

Finally leaving to see Marvels. I’m not expecting TDK but hopefully a ton of fun is on the menu.

 

[Still Wynning]

There isn't any 1 single silver bullet I think in explaining what's going on with The Marvels. There are several factors in why it's not performing well, and you can take your pick as to which is the most relevant. I think the grand takeaway is Marvel Studios needs to have what they called a Come to Jesus meeting at one of my former jobs. One where they take a hard look at what they're doing that isn't working, and start course correcting. It's too late to correct projects they already started filming cause they're too far along and can only be salvaged to a certain degree at this point. But they need to start fixing what they're doing starting with the next wave of content that's about to go in front of a camera

I already suggested this in a different thread, but I think, for the rest of this phase and all future phases, they should get all the directors and writers for any films that are in the process of or haven’t started writing in a room together to go over what each other is doing, get all on the same page, talk about what is and isn’t working, improve what is and throw out what isn’t, establish some continuity between all of their films/series and put together a solid plan and direction going forward for the rest of the next couple of phases.

That way, all scripts would require minimal to no last minute rewrites that would tremendously affect and cause rushed production and incomplete VFX. And with the new guidelines in place from the WGA strike, I think writers will have a lot more ground to stand on, especially with needing to take the time and having more say on the scripting process.

Not saying that every single project will be great, but at the very least, each series or film that succeeds or fails will do so mostly on their own terms and not be just another casualty of what has been happening with Phase 4 and 5 up till now.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

 

[mclay18]

That way, all scripts would require minimal to no last minute rewrites that would tremendously affect and cause rushed production and incomplete VFX. And with the new guidelines in place from the WGA strike, I think writers will have a lot more ground to stand on, especially with needing to take the time and having more say on the scripting process.

Not saying that every single project will be great, but at the very least, each series or film that succeeds or fails will do so mostly on their own terms and not be just another casualty of what has been happening with Phase 4 and 5 up till now.

In addition to what you said, perhaps Marvel should try shooting with more practical effects or locations and use VFX to fill it in after picture lock, instead of shooting mostly on green screen or using CGI to fix everything.

Because whether people liked The Creator, it is a testament to how a movie can look like a $200M-300M blockbuster for a mere $80M. Just amazing and thrifty.

 

[Drizzle]

Marvel Studios has a lot of course correcting to do in general, but I just wish that The Marvels and Quantumania had swapped release dates entirely. It would have had a full press tour from the cast for starters and people didn't seem to be as tired of Marvel in the beginning of the year. If Quantumania had bombed like this, it would have deserved it.

 

[Still Wynning]

In addition to what you said, perhaps Marvel should try shooting with more practical effects or locations and use VFX to fill it in after picture lock, instead of shooting mostly on green screen or using CGI to fix everything.

Because whether people liked The Creator, it is a testament to how a movie can look like a $200M-300M blockbuster for a mere $80M. Just amazing and thrifty.

Implementing what you suggested with what I suggested would give the VFX artists less of a work load and more time to just focus on polishing and perfecting a smaller number of things, instead of being spread thin with a multitude of shots and producing shoddy and incomplete VFX work

The recent The Last of Us HBO series is a good example of doing what you can in camera, and later utilizing and filling in with VFX where needed, as well as having a ton of time to plan out everything and create the VFX for each shot. When I saw some before and after shots after I finished the series, I was shocked at what what was done in-camera and what was added later. When CGI is done really well, it can be practically seamless and invisible.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Marvel Studios has a lot of course correcting to do in general, but I just wish that The Marvels and Quantumania had swapped release dates entirely. It would have had a full press tour from the cast for starters and people didn't seem to be as tired of Marvel in the beginning of the year. If Quantumania had bombed like this, it would have deserved it.

The Marvels was moved cause it was not as far along. So putting it out when Ant-Man 3 came out would have resulted in The Marvels being the one that looked hideously unfinished instead of Ant-Man 3. Also, let's be real. Say Ant-Man 3 had better effects, does that change the story issues and such it had? Still would have ended same result, IMO. But in an ideal world, Ant-Man 3 would have come out now and The Marvels would have come out like May next year since Deadpool 3 got moved to July

 

[MasterBoss]

Based on the RT and average critic score, it certainly deserved to have a better score than Eternals and Quantumania.

It does have a lower metacritc score than Eternals.

Not that it matters anyway

 

[Drizzle]

The Marvels was moved cause it was not as far along. So putting it out when Ant-Man 3 came out would have resulted in The Marvels being the one that looked hideously unfinished instead of Ant-Man 3. Also, let's be real. Say Ant-Man 3 had better effects, does that change the story issues and such it had? Still would have ended same result, IMO. But in an ideal world, Ant-Man 3 would have come out now and The Marvels would have come out like May next year since Deadpool 3 got moved to July

Oh I know, I was just wishing that the release dates were swapped entirely from the start with The Marvels slated to be released before Quantumania from the get-go.

 

[Iceman]

Well, I hugely enjoyed The Marvels. High art it ain’t, and I can see one or two things being seen by many as very silly (I enjoyed them myself ), but I asked for fun and I got a whole lot of it. Had a great time and look forward to rewatching (no time to do so in cinema unfortunately).

 

[Iceman]

I already suggested this in a different thread, but I think, for the rest of this phase and all future phases, they should get all the directors and writers for any films that are in the process of or haven’t started writing in a room together to go over what each other is doing, get all on the same page, talk about what is and isn’t working, improve what is and throw out what isn’t, establish some continuity between all of their films/series and put together a solid plan and direction going forward for the rest of the next couple of phases.

That way, all scripts would require minimal to no last minute rewrites that would tremendously affect and cause rushed production and incomplete VFX. And with the new guidelines in place from the WGA strike, I think writers will have a lot more ground to stand on, especially with needing to take the time and having more say on the scripting process.

Not saying that every single project will be great, but at the very least, each series or film that succeeds or fails will do so mostly on their own terms and not be just another casualty of what has been happening with Phase 4 and 5 up till now.

Massively agreed on this. The MCU is effectively a long running TV show where each episode is a film (or an actual streaming show lol). So the macro planning of it all could do with a TV show writer’s room style input involving the directors and writers of the underlying films.

As you say this could also lead to better work processes and less rewrites, and as a result much more efficiency for the VFX crews to know what they’re working with and focusing on that. Marvel’s treatment of VFX workers has been a major ****stain over the whole project and hopefully that situation can improve in future.

 

[flickchick85]

Imagine having a writers room on a Tv show where the writers of each episode don’t share what’s happening in theirs with the rest of the room. The MCU is a gigantic TV show, and that appears to be what’s happening.

 

[Filmfreak]

Imagine having a writers room on a Tv show where the writers of each episode don’t share what’s happening in theirs with the rest of the room. The MCU is a gigantic TV show, and that appears to be what’s happening.

I wouldn't mind writers ignoring other writers if the entire structure wasn't based in the whole concept of one single continuity*, under the guidance of one person. If there was freedom for filmmakers to do more as they please that would be another story, but like you said it's pretty much like watching one uneven and at times chaotic show.

*Do I pay a fine for using the word or you haven't banned it yet?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think the continuity is overrated in these movies. Honestly, Marvel doesn't nor had ever tightly scripted this stuff. They made their movie at the time and then would integrate ongoing threads when ideas came up or retcon ones that no longer worked. So I am not bothered by them not having extensive continuity meetings. What they need is to outline the important plot thread, in this case Kang. That's it. Everything else, I don't care if it's a bit loose. That's how it always was. Just didn't feel that way cause of less content