Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

[Jh7058622]

No one said that. People are saying that the current trajectory is positive why not wait and see and just be cautiously optimistic rather than rudely pessimistic?

 

[psylockolussus]

Style with no substance. I'd love for Dark Phoenix to be the same hype level as Deadpool and Logan and be on their quality level vs. 90% of Marvel Disney's shallow tone and output level no matter how popular that thought might be.

Critics wouldn't give those films good reviews if they were just all style. Anyway, you are speaking for yourself. How about you criticize the MCU films in the MCU threads for their "shallow tone" and see what reaction would you get. Instead of doing it here in this thread all the time.

 

[Jh7058622]

Critics wouldn't give those films good reviews if they were just all style. Anyway, you are speaking for yourself. How about you criticize the MCU films in the MCU threads for their "shallow tone" and see what reaction would you get. Instead of doing it here in this thread all the time.

What? They have plenty of films that are more style than substance all the time. Strawman argument there.

Also this "the Academy Awards don't matter but MCU is definitely gong to get one and the BEST one!" mentality is sad. You MCU fans can't have it both ways. Much like you can't have this both ways. If a film is both well received and awarded by the academy (with virtually NO campaign) don't say "it's all irrelevant because my thing is popular" that's asinine.

 

[psylockolussus]

Go and post it in the MCU threads.

No one said that. People are saying that the current trajectory is positive why not wait and see and just be cautiously optimistic rather than rudely pessimistic?

The current trajectory is only positive for those films that got good reviews. The rest like Dark Phoenix, a sequel to a bad film and gets delayed for eXtensive reshoots. Troubled film like the New Mutants that is delayed 18 months. Gambit, a movie that won't start filming despite having an "amazing script" - the trajectory for those are negative. Basically, all Fox has right now is X-Force and Deadpool 3. You aren't getting a Logan spin off as Mangold moved on to Star Wars. Anyway, some people just don't have the patience to wait and see. I've been doing that since the last decade. Its not being rudely pessimistic as Fox has had many chances and continue to screw things up.

 

[DACrowe]

I know you mentioned averages but at the end of the day there were no movies in the franchise in 2012, none in 2015. It's possible the X-men in the MCU can see the same amount of appearances as they currently do over at Fox. Probably not the entire team but relevant characters might show up in other non X-men team films (which isn't any different from Cyclops and Storm cameoing during the Cerebro sequel in First Class or Jean's appearance in The Wolverine).

But more importantly, (and I have no doubt) the X-men under the MCU will finally be leads in their own movie.



The irony of your post is that within that "9 year stretch" here's what the "X-men" have to show for from the franchise:

2011: there was no X-men team in First Class (no matter how Kinberg wanted to retcon that with JLaw's dialogue in Apocalypse);
2013: was the term "X-men" even mentioned in The Wolverine;
2014: there was no X-men team in the past; nor were they X-men in the future according to Singer;
2016: it was a running joke in Deadpool 1 that they can only afford Colossus and his trainee Negasonic Teenage Warhead;
2016: Comic book A-lister X-man Beast, who in the movies can't seem to do anything right, waits for messianic X-woman herself Mystique to show up since he's still too chicken ***t to organize the team on his own; How long were they "X-men" in that movie?
2017: The X-men are killed by their mentor; They appear in a comic book;
2018: 2 second cameo;
2019: ?
2019: ?

That's a sad showing for the X-men and it's even sadder to think that some people can accept this treatment.

Just out of curiosity, do you really believe that the X-Men, who acted like X-Men and dressed like X-Men, were not X-Men in FC because they didn't use that name? That seems a wee bit pedantic.

 

[DACrowe]

Critics wouldn't give those films good reviews if they were just all style. Anyway, you are speaking for yourself. How about you criticize the MCU films in the MCU threads for their "shallow tone" and see what reaction would you get. Instead of doing it here in this thread all the time.

Wouldn't it be fair that you shouldn't be posting about how you can't wait for Marvel to reboot the X-Men every other day as well? You come in here and whine about Kinberg and then talk about how much better the MCU will do it. That also is deflecting from Dark Phoenix to talk about a non-related subject matter that you're interested in.

 

[Davidstorm]

Wouldn't it be fair that you shouldn't be posting about how you can't wait for Marvel to reboot the X-Men every other day as well? You come in here and whine about Kinberg and then talk about how much better the MCU will do it. That also is deflecting from Dark Phoenix to talk about a non-related subject matter that you're interested in.

 

[Jh7058622]

Critics wouldn't give those films good reviews if they were just all style. Anyway, you are speaking for yourself. How about you criticize the MCU films in the MCU threads for their "shallow tone" and see what reaction would you get. Instead of doing it here in this thread all the time.

I use to do this all the time some would disagree but some fans over there even agree that Infinity War had massive potholes and Spider-Man: Homecoming wasn't the best adaptation of characters.

 

[Jh7058622]

Wouldn't it be fair that you shouldn't be posting about how you can't wait for Marvel to reboot the X-Men every other day as well? You come in here and whine about Kinberg and then talk about how much better the MCU will do it. That also is deflecting from Dark Phoenix to talk about a non-related subject matter that you're interested in.

Also this.

 

[Weather Witch]

Wouldn't it be fair that you shouldn't be posting about how you can't wait for Marvel to reboot the X-Men every other day as well? You come in here and whine about Kinberg and then talk about how much better the MCU will do it. That also is deflecting from Dark Phoenix to talk about a non-related subject matter that you're interested in.

This.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Also this "the Academy Awards don't matter but MCU is definitely gong to get one and the BEST one!" mentality is sad. You MCU fans can't have it both ways.

You do know that’s two different people that said that right? Person A said Black Panther “[will] get a Best Picture nomination.” Person B laughed off all the Oscars talk because even Suicide Squad got an Oscar

Just out of curiosity, do you really believe that the X-Men, who acted like X-Men and dressed like X-Men, were not X-Men in FC because they didn't use that name? That seems a wee bit pedantic.

It was Singer himself who said during an interview that X-men Apocalypse is a film about the birth and formation of the X-men, so you’ll have to take it up with him.

 

[Legion]

You do know that’s two different people that said that right? Person A said Black Panther “[will] get a Best Picture nomination.” Person B laughed off all the Oscars talk because even Suicide Squad got an Oscar



It was Singer himself who said during an interview that X-men Apocalypse is a film about the birth and formation of the X-men, so you’ll have to take it up with him.

In this series, the term "X-Men" is used loosely. It doesn't seem to be as formal as "The Avengers". Going back to the first X-Men film Xavier explains to Logan that his first students who have mastered their abilities and are now teachers themselves have been given the nickname "X-Men" by the students.

The second film has the subtitle "X-Men United" but the team seems anything but united for most of the film. Xavier and Cyclops are kidnapped. Storm and Jean go on a mission to locate Nightcrawler. Wolverine, Rogue, Iceman, and Pyro are forced to flee the X-mansion.

There is a team up though between the heroes and the villains of the previous film, Magneto, and Mystique. Does this mean they are considered X-Men? It almost sounds like X-Men can be a nickname for mutants.

After almost 20 years of X-Men films, fans still ask, "Why are Magneto and Mystique in every film? They aren't even X-Men." Is it possible the filmmakers do consider them to be X-Men?

Wolverine wore the uniform in X1 but at this point, he is still just a wanderer who passes through as he pleases. Is he really not one of the X-Men until the third film?

In First Class, Moira calls Xavier's team "X-Men". People seem to think that these characters are not really X-Men because there is no "We are the X-Men scene" and membership cards were not issued or because they never suit up again.

In "Logan", Wolverine essentially says the X-Men only happened a couple of times. I take that to mean the missions in the films are the only missions they had.

So I don't think there was ever a formal roster for the X-Men or established date. They don't hold tryouts and they don't spend countless hours in the danger room like they do in the comics. They are just mutants who band together to fight for Xavier's dream when the need arises.

I do think the characters in First Class are X-Men and I think Apocalypse was about the characters from the original trilogy came together for the first time.

 

[psylockolussus]

Just out of curiosity, do you really believe that the X-Men, who acted like X-Men and dressed like X-Men, were not X-Men in FC because they didn't use that name? That seems a wee bit pedantic.

They are X-Men characters but not The X-Men in that film.

Wouldn't it be fair that you shouldn't be posting about how you can't wait for Marvel to reboot the X-Men every other day as well? You come in here and whine about Kinberg and then talk about how much better the MCU will do it. That also is deflecting from Dark Phoenix to talk about a non-related subject matter that you're interested in.

I'm talking about future X-Men movies including Dark PhoeniX. Anyway they are both gonna feature X-Men characters so its different comparing to talking about MCU films that didn't feature the X-Men.

 

[EnDz0n3]

There was this exchange in First Class in the waning minutes of the movie:

Dr. Moira MacTaggert : You know, one day the government is going to realize that how lucky they were to have Professor X on their side.

Professor Charles Xavier : I suppose I am a real professor, aren't I? Next thing you know, I'll be going bald. We're still on the government side, Moira. We're still G-Men. Just without the "G".

Dr. Moira MacTaggert : No. You're your own team now. It's better. You're X-Men.

Professor Charles Xavier : Yes, I like the sound of that.

So when did they become X-men? And what exactly did they do as X-men in that film? Considering this was said after they've fought off the villains in the third act

Magneto does make it a point to say "The Brotherhood" in X-men 1. So he recognizes his group living in that cave is not the X-men.

JLaw also says in the waning seconds of X-men: Apocalypse. "You're not kids anymore. You're X-men."

 

[psylockolussus]

The one thing from X3 that I want them to rehash is the Danger Room sequence. It would be cool to see Cyke, Nightcrawler, Beast and PhoeniX in that room since they weren't available for that scene in X3. Also that Danger Room scene from.X3 was too short.

 

[magneto23]

I know you mentioned averages but at the end of the day there were no movies in the franchise in 2012, none in 2015. It's possible the X-men in the MCU can see the same amount of appearances as they currently do over at Fox. Probably not the entire team but relevant characters might show up in other non X-men team films (which isn't any different from Cyclops and Storm cameoing during the Cerebro sequel in First Class or Jean's appearance in The Wolverine).

But more importantly, (and I have no doubt) the X-men under the MCU will finally be leads in their own movie.

I'm sure the main line X-Men team would be done justice. At least as far as proper attention goes. Its the stuff outside of the main X-Men series I'm concerned about. Potential X-Force series. Potential New Mutants series. Solo spinoffs. I feel like we are just now, over a decade and a half, really getting an expanded universe and once Disney gets it everything contracts back in.

The irony of your post is that within that "9 year stretch" here's what the "X-men" have to show for from the franchise:

2011: there was no X-men team in First Class (no matter how Kinberg wanted to retcon that with JLaw's dialogue in Apocalypse);
2013: was the term "X-men" even mentioned in The Wolverine;
2014: there was no X-men team in the past; nor were they X-men in the future according to Singer;
2016: it was a running joke in Deadpool 1 that they can only afford Colossus and his trainee Negasonic Teenage Warhead;
2016: Comic book A-lister X-man Beast, who in the movies can't seem to do anything right, waits for messianic X-woman herself Mystique to show up since he's still too chicken ***t to organize the team on his own; How long were they "X-men" in that movie?
2017: The X-men are killed by their mentor; They appear in a comic book;
2018: 2 second cameo;
2019: ?
2019: ?

That's a sad showing for the X-men

Hopefully DP can improve in this area.

and it's even sadder to think that some people can accept this treatment.

There is only one dud out of those movies. The rest were at least good if not great. So that helps a lot. I guess a lot hinges on how DP goes. People "accepted this treatment" of the X-Men through this FC trilogy to get to the A-List characters on the timeline. We are at that point now. So like I said, hopefully DP makes it worth the wait.

 

[SumT]

I know you mentioned averages but at the end of the day there were no movies in the franchise in 2012, none in 2015. It's possible the X-men in the MCU can see the same amount of appearances as they currently do over at Fox. Probably not the entire team but relevant characters might show up in other non X-men team films (which isn't any different from Cyclops and Storm cameoing during the Cerebro sequel in First Class or Jean's appearance in The Wolverine).

But more importantly, (and I have no doubt) the X-men under the MCU will finally be leads in their own movie.



The irony of your post is that within that "9 year stretch" here's what the "X-men" have to show for from the franchise:

2011: there was no X-men team in First Class (no matter how Kinberg wanted to retcon that with JLaw's dialogue in Apocalypse);
2013: was the term "X-men" even mentioned in The Wolverine;
2014: there was no X-men team in the past; nor were they X-men in the future according to Singer;
2016: it was a running joke in Deadpool 1 that they can only afford Colossus and his trainee Negasonic Teenage Warhead;
2016: Comic book A-lister X-man Beast, who in the movies can't seem to do anything right, waits for messianic X-woman herself Mystique to show up since he's still too chicken ***t to organize the team on his own; How long were they "X-men" in that movie?
2017: The X-men are killed by their mentor; They appear in a comic book;
2018: 2 second cameo;
2019: ?
2019: ?

That's a sad showing for the X-men and it's even sadder to think that some people can accept this treatment.

you just spoke the general feeling of 80% of the fanbase/general cbm fans, if not more.

and yes, its kind of sad how some fans accept this treatment so easily. This approach doesnt make justice to the X-Men. Those who have read more than 20 comics or watched all the tv shows would know this.

 

[GuestStar2004]

X-Men isn't just a team, its also a title.

 

[SumT]

the tittle of a team.

I guess some people havent realized that yet, I understand it, Fox hasnt made it that clear to general audience these 18 years who are the x-men, constantly killing and cutting characters or directly not using them on a "X-Men" movie (like FC).

but... the X-Men are a team of characters, and there is a core team, after 50 years of comics history. General audience of course has no idea of this core team, because the franchise hasnt captured it that well.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Dark Phoenix, we wait!

 

[EnDz0n3]

I'm sure the main line X-Men team would be done justice. At least as far as proper attention goes. Its the stuff outside of the main X-Men series I'm concerned about. Potential X-Force series. Potential New Mutants series. Solo spinoffs. I feel like we are just now, over a decade and a half, really getting an expanded universe and once Disney gets it everything contracts back in.

Hopefully DP can improve in this area.

There is only one dud out of those movies. The rest were at least good if not great. So that helps a lot. I guess a lot hinges on how DP goes. People "accepted this treatment" of the X-Men through this FC trilogy to get to the A-List characters on the timeline. We are at that point now. So like I said, hopefully DP makes it worth the wait.

At the very least, I'm hoping you do get the frustration that some (most?) of the fans on here are saying?

Fox has had the IP since the 90's, with the first movie coming out in 2000. Hoult's Beast has been in 3 movies in the FC trilogy and what do we really know about him? Storm is merely a walking (sometimes talking) Special Effect. Rogue was a damsel-in-distress in X-men 1 but her fans can say she was a lead in ONE X-men movie (Meanwhile Mystique has appeared in ALL SIX X-MEN MOVIES and one of the main headliners in THREE MOVIES). Jean was a mute zombie in an adaptation of Dark Phoenix. Colossus is a punchline in the Deadpool movies. Ratner's Cyclops was relegated to the "other man" role in X3. At least Singer had the sense to get Jean to choose Scott at the end of his X2.*

Speaking of spin offs, Fox is only NOW doing spinoffs like the X-Force, The New Mutants, Deadpool et al. And we should be thankful to Fox and give them the benefit of the doubt?

*Walking out of that movie theatre back in 2003, it was such a great time to be an X-men fan. Finally seeing that Phoenix raptor and a promise of a great trilogy + Storm finally a character with an arc + Jean choosing Scott + Rogue stepping up and swooping in with the X-jet + Nightcrawler potentially returning + Beast potentially making his non-cameo debut.

 

[GuestStar2004]

the tittle of a team.

Its also the title of a comic book property with over 400 characters that have been going since the 60s and are still being produced today in red versions or blue versions of separate teams

but... the X-Men are a team of characters, and there is a core team, after 50 years of comics history. General audience of course has no idea of this core team, because the franchise hasnt captured it that well.

Anyone can be an X-Man though, thats the issue. most people pick a certain era they feel should be kept iconic to X-Men and whose allowed to be an X-Man but the comics alone have made alterations over the years.

 

[The Guard]

The team members were said to be affectionally referred to as "X-Men" in X-MEN. Xavier himself says he likes the name at the end of FIRST CLASS when Moira suggests it.

So it's not an official public title based on what we've seen (so far), but those in the know refer to his team as "X-Men",
including Magneto, who says "Or are you afraid of losing one of your precious X-Men?" in X2.

Now there was no "X-Men" throughout much of FIRST CLASS because the team is made up of those who would become Brotherhood and the X-Men until the finale. But it's fairly obvious that the remaining students became the X-Men, at least unofficially, at the end of First Class (I thought the G-Men/X-Men connection was clever). Logan tells Charles to find the X-Men in DOFP. It's an idea that is referenced again in APOCALYPSE, as Beast wants Charles to utilize the concept again. They're clearly referred to as X-Men several times throughout the franchise.

 

[EnDz0n3]

It's an idea that is referenced again in APOCALYPSE, as Beast wants Charles to utilize the concept again.

It's been a while since I've seen the movie. When exactly did this happen? All I remember is Beast asking Mystique to form the team again.

 

[GuestStar2004]

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