Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[Erzengel]

If you showed me years ago a Black suit Superman and that pic of Darkseid, Desaad & Granny Goodness, I would have told you whomever made this read my diary. Teen me would have been so excited.

 

[Zarex]

Considering the toxicity from large portions of the internet when it came to Captain Marvel and Brie Larson herself, it's hard not to side eye the idea that the first thing some seem to thinks needs to be done to the MCU's Superman, is to nerf her for whatever reason. She found herself at the end of the last film. She hasn't even had a chance to be her awesome self in all her glory for more then one act.

Its going to be difficult, though, to come up with a respectable challenge for a gal who can take out an alien armada by her lonesome and win an arm wrestling contest with a space god. So you've either got to bring in really big guns - a Superman type like Hyperion or Gladiator, maybe a Herald of Galactus. Or you temporarily put the kibosh on her powers and let Carol use her savvy, piloting skills and sheer will power to defeat an enemy against overwhelming odds. If Zawe Ashton is playing Karla Sofen that may be the route they are taking, since the character originally stole the powers of the first Moonstone.

 

[Dark_Lord]

I still can't believe they have spent all his money on the Snyder Cut, and they are going to release it in 4:3.

I don't see how that's funny, or why it's a problem. We're actually getting to see more of the image. You can always change the aspect ratio on your TV (yes, I realize you'd be zooming in).

 

[MadVillainy]

Cap Marvel should get nerfed. I don't get what that point is about because people have complained for years that Superman is OP as well. Hell most of the DC big 7 arguably need to get nerfed in some way. Flash, GL, J'ohnn, Supes. Especially Flash... And again I feel like that's been brought up for years. "DC characters are literal gods so they're not relatable" type nonsense.

You either have to nerf them/give them a reasonable weakness, make their villains very very strong or superpowered (which in the case of Captain Marvel would make the villain much stronger than Thanos sans stones), or make it so that the villain is just smarter and then the hero has to outsmart them. Or write them out of the movie awkwardly like they did with FoxVerse Quicksilver or Cap Marvel in EG.

Those are pretty much the options. Imo you can make someone very powerful without making them basically omnipotent. I think the easiest answer is always just scale the heroes' power levels back from their comic counterparts/certain iterations. Superman doesn't need to be "lift up a continent strong," Flash doesn't need to be able to go at the speed of light regularly and without repercussion, etc.

I really don't get why they went that way with Cap Marvel. I think a cooler and better moment would've been Thanos punched her, then she buckles maybe, but doesn't let go of the gauntlet and stands up. Still shows she strong, still shows she's tough, but doesn't make her so strong that you're written into this weird corner.
I almost don't get why tease this villain for almost a decade and then make one of the heroes so strong that they could no sell him pretty easily. It's like if DC teased Darkseid or the Anti Monitor for years and then Superman no sells them and the only reason the villain gets the upperhand is because of some cheap powerup. Actually didn't something kinda similar happen in JL, wasn't Steppenwolf played up to be so powerful and Superman show up like "Sup" and take him out fairly easily? I'm actually asking I haven't seen the movie.

In any case, Larson is a great actress and she was my top choice for the role. But it's a pretty lame role as of now. Personality is pretty generic MCU type and even that has faded away as time her appearances have gone on. Storyline is meh through her first 3 appearances. Writing is pretty bad... I hope the sequel improves it.

 

[MadVillainy]

In other news
Kevin Feige Is Opposed to ‘Black Widow’ Hybrid Release — But Will Disney Overrule Him?

Said this in another thread, but I'm wondering if people will start getting pissy at Feige about this like they did with Nolan and Villaneuve

 

[Predator jp]

I still can't believe they have spent all his money on the Snyder Cut, and they are going to release it in 4:3.

you hate IMAX? it's similar aspect ratio.

 

[Snow Queen]

I didn't realize I was going to get to see the Snydercut in an IMAX theater. Here I thought I was watching it on my TV. In black and white. In 4x3. For a Justice League movie. Because this is a serious movie, guys.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Cap Marvel should get nerfed. I don't get what that point is about because people have complained for years that Superman is OP as well. Hell most of the DC big 7 arguably need to get nerfed in some way. Flash, GL, J'ohnn, Supes. Especially Flash... And again I feel like that's been brought up for years. "DC characters are literal gods so they're not relatable" type nonsense.

You either have to nerf them/give them a reasonable weakness, make their villains very very strong or superpowered (which in the case of Captain Marvel would make the villain much stronger than Thanos sans stones), or make it so that the villain is just smarter and then the hero has to outsmart them. Or write them out of the movie awkwardly like they did with FoxVerse Quicksilver or Cap Marvel in EG.

Those are pretty much the options. Imo you can make someone very powerful without making them basically omnipotent. I think the easiest answer is always just scale the heroes' power levels back from their comic counterparts/certain iterations. Superman doesn't need to be "lift up a continent strong," Flash doesn't need to be able to go at the speed of light regularly and without repercussion, etc.

I really don't get why they went that way with Cap Marvel. I think a cooler and better moment would've been Thanos punched her, then she buckles maybe, but doesn't let go of the gauntlet and stands up. Still shows she strong, still shows she's tough, but doesn't make her so strong that you're written into this weird corner.
I almost don't get why tease this villain for almost a decade and then make one of the heroes so strong that they could no sell him pretty easily. It's like if DC teased Darkseid or the Anti Monitor for years and then Superman no sells them and the only reason the villain gets the upperhand is because of some cheap powerup. Actually didn't something kinda similar happen in JL, wasn't Steppenwolf played up to be so powerful and Superman show up like "Sup" and take him out fairly easily? I'm actually asking I haven't seen the movie.

In any case, Larson is a great actress and she was my top choice for the role. But it's a pretty lame role as of now. Personality is pretty generic MCU type and even that has faded away as time her appearances have gone on. Storyline is meh through her first 3 appearances. Writing is pretty bad... I hope the sequel improves it.

The problem with Superman, who was nerfed 3 decades ago already, isn't his power level. Never has been. It is starting the writing process on him with the assumption that he is boring, has to be constantly punching things, and act like someone who didn't learn values from his family to make him compelling. Because if he for some reason acts like a intelligent, kind, compassionate, mature adult, that is somehow... boring.

You write powerful characters like they are intended. As powerful. You build the story to suit that. Watchmen, arguably the finest piece of comic book and television superhero writing has one of the most OP characters in the genre. Yet it works brilliantly. With these characters you need to dream beyond the usual punching and kicking.

Superman's most well known villain isn't a hulking behemoth. It's the smartest guy on the planet. That's the hint.

 

[Ninjablade]

I'm all for an IMAX ratio, but the problem is Snyder's use of it here makes the movie looked cropped and claustrophobic as hell. Snyder shoots things super freaking close a lot of the time, so a taller image hinders if anything.

I'd need more comparison shots, but the team shot before the big battle makes it look like we're losing image horizontally, which is something I'd rather have.

 

[Dark_Lord]

I didn't realize I was going to get to see the Snydercut in an IMAX theater. Here I thought I was watching it on my TV. In black and white. In 4x3. For a Justice League movie. Because this is a serious movie, guys.

It's not in black and white (although there will eventually be a b&w version) and you can still change the aspect ratio settings on your TV.

I'm all for an IMAX ratio, but the problem is Snyder's use of it here makes the movie looked cropped and claustrophobic as hell. Snyder shoots things super freaking close a lot of the time, so a taller image hinders if anything.

I'd need more comparison shots, but the team shot before the big battle makes it look like we're losing image horizontally, which is something I'd rather have.

You're not losing anything, though.

 

[Snow Queen]

There's always going to be some way to challenge powerful characters. It might mean a little more thought put into it, but I mean... isn't that a good thing? Putting characters with these abilities into situations where they can't win just by using them offers a lot more potential than just nerfing them so they can throw things to punch at them. Your character can punch a hole through a moon? Well that's not going to be super helpful in having to find a way to broker peace between two warring cultures or whatever else you can come up with.

I'm all for an IMAX ratio, but the problem is Snyder's use of it here makes the movie looked cropped and claustrophobic as hell. Snyder shoots things super freaking close a lot of the time, so a taller image hinders if anything.

I'd need more comparison shots, but the team shot before the big battle makes it look like we're losing image horizontally, which is something I'd rather have.

That's pretty much exactly my issue when I see the images. Though technically adding more image, it doesn't make the shots look any bigger to me - it has the exact opposite effect.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm all for an IMAX ratio, but the problem is Snyder's use of it here makes the movie looked cropped and claustrophobic as hell. Snyder shoots things super freaking close a lot of the time, so a taller image hinders if anything.

I'd need more comparison shots, but the team shot before the big battle makes it look like we're losing image horizontally, which is something I'd rather have.

Yeah, if you own a blu ray for TDK or TDKT, or any Nolan film after TDKT. Look at how they handle the IMAX scenes in home releases. It's done like that, for a reason.

 

[Snow Queen]

It's not in black and white (although there will eventually be a b&w version) and you can still change the aspect ratio settings on your TV.

Credit where it's due, I actually was under the impression they had switched to a black and white release as all the recent marketing I've seen for it has been in black and white, but that's wrong, so yeah. The 4x3 though feels like a big mistake in the format.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's not in black and white (although there will eventually be a b&w version) and you can still change the aspect ratio settings on your TV.



You're not losing anything, though.

I am pretty sure that isn't how that works. If the film is in a certain aspect ratio and you "adjust" the aspect ratio you either lose picture or make the image tiny. You don't get anything else from that. I mean... I'm not crazy right?

 

[Snow Queen]

I feel like it's off base to say that you can just adjust your TV settiings. The criticism is about his creative choices and how that translates to what is being shown. You can just crop any movie you want like you're HBO but that doesn't change what was released and what is being discussed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I feel like it's off base to say that you can just adjust your TV settiings. The criticism is about his creative choices and how that translates to what is being shown. You can just crop any movie you want like you're HBO but that doesn't change what was released and what is being discussed.

*Stares longingly at my old pan and scan Star Wars tapes*

 

[MadVillainy]

 

[Ninjablade]

Yeah, if you own a blu ray for TDK or TDKT, or any Nolan film after TDKT. Look at how they handle the IMAX scenes in home releases. It's done like that, for a reason.

Exactly. You have to be really careful with translating the bigger picture to a smaller screen. It's the reason you don't get an IMAX ratio at your regular movie theater.

Mission: Impossible - Fallout did it really well for the home release. It looks great at home for the Halo jump and Helicopter chase which was all in that ratio.

I am pretty sure that isn't how that works. If the film is in a certain aspect ratio and you "adjust" the aspect ratio you either lose picture or make the image tiny. You don't get anything else from that. I mean... I'm not crazy right?

Yeah, you're not changing the aspect ratio of the thing, you're just fitting the image to screen which more often than not will lose a good 30% of the image

I feel like it's off base to say that you can just adjust your TV settings. The criticism is about his creative choices and how that translates to what is being shown. You can just crop any movie you want like you're HBO but that doesn't change what was released and what is being discussed.

Doesn't help that adjusting the TV doesn't fix the issue of the film looking claustrophobic and cropped. If I have to zoom my tv in all that does is enhance the issue...

 

[Dark_Lord]

Credit where it's due, I actually was under the impression they had switched to a black and white release as all the recent marketing I've seen for it has been in black and white, but that's wrong, so yeah. The 4x3 though feels like a big mistake in the format.

Oh yeah. He just seems to really like releasing promotional material in black and white, so I understand the confusion.

I am pretty sure that isn't how that works. If the film is in a certain aspect ratio and you "adjust" the aspect ratio you either lose picture or make the image tiny. You don't get anything else from that. I mean... I'm not crazy right?

I feel like it's off base to say that you can just adjust your TV settiings. The criticism is about his creative choices and how that translates to what is being shown. You can just crop any movie you want like you're HBO but that doesn't change what was released and what is being discussed.

I wasn't suggesting to deform/stretch the image, but zoom it until it fills the sides. Which, yes, would have cut part of the top and bottom of the screen. If it had been released in 2.40:1 (or whatever) you wouldn't have that information available anyway.

But, I get it now that you're talking about the creative choices. I've simply seen people complaining that it won't fill their TV screens and that's why I was talking about settings. Which still isn't ideal, because I guess you'd lose some quality by doing so.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Exactly. You have to be really careful with translating the bigger picture to a smaller screen. It's the reason you don't get an IMAX ratio at your regular movie theater.

Mission: Impossible - Fallout did it really well for the home release. It looks great at home for the Halo jump and Helicopter chase which was all in that ratio.

Yeah, you're not changing the aspect ratio of the thing, you're just fitting the image to screen which more often than not will lose a good 30% of the image

Doesn't help that adjusting the TV doesn't fix the issue of the film looking claustrophobic and cropped. If I have to zoom my tv in all that does is enhance the issue...

It's so true though. The movie looks like it has been zoomed in on the entire time. Like a bad cam or something.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wasn't suggesting to deform/stretch the image, but zoom it until it fills (or whatever) you wouldn't have that information available anyway.

But, I get it now that you're talking about the creative choices. I've simply seen people complaining that it won't fill their TV screens and that's why I was talking about settings. Which still isn't ideal, because I guess you'd lose some quality by doing so.

Did you work on the ITunes release of Avatar: The Last Airbender?

 

[MadVillainy]

There's always going to be some way to challenge powerful characters. It might mean a little more thought put into it, but I mean... isn't that a good thing? Putting characters with these abilities into situations where they can't win just by using them offers a lot more potential than just nerfing them so they can throw things to punch at them. Your character can punch a hole through a moon? Well that's not going to be super helpful in having to find a way to broker peace between two warring cultures or whatever else you can come up with.

Yeah for sure that's always there, but imo it always gets into poor writing territory when the hero or even the villain is so powerful that it's just kinda boring. Hela is a villainous example, Cate BLachett is great in the role, but she just spends the whole movie curbstomping the competition. Luke Cage I thought had that problem in the first part of his first season as well.

Also it's odd once you're trying to make someone seem like an uber threat (like Thanos, Steppenwolf, Kylo Ren) and then hero can match them relatively easy. Also i think it kinda puts the writing in an awkward place when you have to just rely on escalation after escalation of the villain's strength to challenge the hero. Idk who watches it in here, but I think the Dragonball franchise, especially with Super is in that place. Of course, depending on the movie, we all know the hero will win. But, and I'm talking generally, it's not interesting when it's too easy for the hero. ANd that might just be a personal thing, but all my favorite action scenes are when heroes are pushed to their limits physically or mentally. Looping this back to Captain Marvel (or Superman for that matter), I don't think we've really see that done well yet. Yet.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Regarding powerful characters, of course they can be challenged by things that just fall outside of their power range but if you don't also put those characters in situations where their powers solve things then the powers are instead rendered meaningless. That's why Superman isn't only facing off characters like Lex, Thor against characters like Loki, etc.

The point comes when a powerful character is part of a team with other characters who's roles are also to be powerhouses, and that one characters make the others look weak. Superman in the JL film is a good example of that. It just feels anticlimactic when one guy could have solved what the team couldn't because he's just so powerful that even the villain seemed weak in comparison. That's a situation to avoid if you make stories where heroes team up, which is most certainly the case in the MCU. I think Endgame missed a bit on balancing that, especially since it was with a character that had nothing to do with the story up until that point. It would be the same if they had instead introduced someone like Adam Warlock at the end so it has nothing to do with any specific character.

 

[Dark_Lord]

Did you work on the ITunes release of Avatar: The Last Airbender?

Let me guess. They released it in 16:9, even though it was originally 4:3.

Anyway. I know what I suggested isn't a solution, it's a way for those complaining about the image not filling their TV screen and even then, it has its problems. Since we're talking about it from a creative perspective, though, that's different.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Regarding powerful characters, of course they can be challenged by things that just fall outside of their power range but if you don't also put those characters in situations where their powers solve things then the powers are instead rendered meaningless. That's why Superman isn't only facing off characters like Lex, Thor against characters like Loki, etc.

The point comes when a powerful character is part of a team with other characters who's roles are also to be powerhouses, and that one characters make the others look weak. Superman in the JL film is a good example of that. It just feels anticlimactic when one guy could have solved what the team couldn't because he's just so powerful that even the villain seemed weak in comparison. That's a situation to avoid if you make stories where heroes team up, which is most certainly the case in the MCU. I think Endgame missed a bit on balancing that, especially since it was with a character that had nothing to do with the story up until that point. It would be the same if they had instead introduced someone like Adam Warlock at the end so it has nothing to do with any specific character.

Well the thing about the MCU is that it's all interconnected. In the context of Endgame, an Avengers flick handling the Infinity Stones, Captain Marvel is basically the start of that story. She is directly responsible for putting the Avengers Initiative in Fury's head and along with the power of the tesseract. So while she isn't a big part of the internal story, she is of the overarching plot.

As to physically challenging someone incredibly strong. You can do that without sapping them of their strength.