Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[Schlosser85]

If you get the picture, why be aggressive with other posters about it?

Looked to me like other posters were the ones being aggressive...

Just like the post immediately above mine, people read racism into everything whether it's there or not and it gets tiresome to deal with.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Looked to me like other posters were the ones being aggressive...

Just like the post immediately above mine, people read racism into everything whether it's there or not and it gets tiresome to deal with.

Posts don't happen out of context. What people post all over the boards factor into how people read their posts. You think it is tiresome being white and having to deal with people of color seeing racism in a racist society? Imagine being a person of color in that society and having the existence of racism denied constantly.

 

[Schlosser85]

Posts don't happen out of context. What people post all over the boards factor into how people read their posts. You think it is tiresome being white and having to deal with people of color seeing racism in a racist society? Imagine being a person of color in that society and having the existence of racism denied constantly.

Denial of racism and reading nonexistent racism into posts both happen. It's not one or the other.

 

[Boy Scout]

Posts don't happen out of context. What people post all over the boards factor into how people read their posts. You think it is tiresome being white and having to deal with people of color seeing racism in a racist society? Imagine being a person of color in that society and having the existence of racism denied constantly.

Say it again for the people in the back.

 

[Boy Scout]

Denial of racism and reading nonexistent racism into posts both happen. It's not one or the other.

As does not realizing or being unwilling to understand that something you wrote came across a certain way, even if that wasn’t your intention.

 

[Limonade]

But hat's how I remember comics being when I was growing up. It's always been a hodge podge of continuities and origins and one-offs and elseworlds and what-ifs and cross-overs and limited runs. It's one of the things I like about it.

It also led to over-saturation of the market and the comic crash of the mid to late 90s.

Variety can be had. However, when something stinks it can permeate through-out the fandom and can cause lots of nerd fights.

I've lived through the maximum cloneage saga with Spider-man and destroyed his main series. It can do a lot of damage if someone is left unchecked.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Denial of racism and reading nonexistent racism into posts both happen. It's not one or the other.

Schlosser, friend. You aren't a person of color. Perhaps your perception of racial undertones, whether intended or not, might not be as sensitive as someone who is. More over claiming to somehow being put upon because racism is read into too many things like this is an impediment so tiresome that it is comparable to being gaslit for 400 years just ain't it.

So when someone of color sees someone always putting the friangles with the friangles, excuse us when we go a bit Tommy Pickles on it.

 

[Kev4000]

Holy lack of historical context you two. Do you have like no knowledge of US history and the treatment of minorities here? Here is a hint. If you put all the major lack, Asian, Latin, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc. characters all together, they wouldn't even make up the amount of major white characters from a company like DC.

I was just wondering what would happen if a not necessary black character would be interpreted as an Asian character. I would cheer about an Asian (kind of) superman per example. There was a decent run of a comic book series for something like this.
My only point was that POC representation is important, but as you said too POC is more then black. If that wasnt clear with my one-liner I am honestly sorry.

 

[chamber-music]

That black actor is going to have some tough skin, but then imagine how warm he'll be received by who really matters. You remember how Black Twitter showed up and showed out for Black Panther, if they produce this right and give us a good movie just imagine how much they'll praise Black Superman.

But again this is WB so let me not get ahead of myself, but you catch my drift.

I just don't see black people turning out for a Black superman film the way they turned out for Black Panther.

Black Panther showcased a futuristic yet culturely traditional fantasy fictional African nation. The movie also dealt with African diaspora's relations with Africans and colonialism. Things that will talk to a black audience. It also had the benefit of being a marvel film and marvel studios have a good track record that audiences trust.

We are most likely getting another traditional superman movie except with a black actor. Unless coates is making race a major component of his superman, I can't see anything that will draw a larger audience than previous recent superman films. JJ Abrams name isn't a guarantee of box office success either.

 

[Schlosser85]

I just don't see black people turning out for a Black superman film the way they turned out for Black Panther.

Black Panther showcased a futuristic yet culturely traditional fantasy fictional African nation. The movie also dealt with African diaspora's relations with Africans and colonialism. Things that will talk to a black audience. It also had the benefit of being a marvel film and marvel studios have a good track record that audiences trust.

We are most likely getting another traditional superman movie except with a black actor. Unless coates is making race a major component of his superman, I can't see anything that will draw a larger audience than previous recent superman films. JJ Abrams name isn't a guarantee of box office success either.

I agree with this analysis, especially the middle part about Black Panther and its appeal. It combined traditional African tribal elements with sci-fi and more conventional superhero action in a way that was fresh and intriguing to a non-POC viewer like me but also wasn't afraid to wear its political commentary on its sleeve and addressed colonialism/isolationism/extremism, all things that would speak to a black audience. Hell, it opens in Oakland.

Black Panther just culturally incorporates all kinds of stuff that is gonna speak to a black audience more than a conventional Superman movie will, even with a black actor, unless they completely overhaul Superman's origin and character, in which case....what's really the point?

 

[Sithborg]

I was just wondering what would happen if a not necessary black character would be interpreted as an Asian character. I would cheer about an Asian (kind of) superman per example. There was a decent run of a comic book series for something like this.
My only point was that POC representation is important, but as you said too POC is more then black. If that wasnt clear with my one-liner I am honestly sorry.

Once again, New Mutants. Though, maybe be a bad example, as the director revealed racist reasons...

 

[Web-Head]

 

[Iceman]

This is bloody awesome. Can I nick this for the MCU X-Men thread?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Once again, New Mutants. Though, maybe be a bad example, as the director revealed racist reasons...

You mean Cecilia Reyes? That movie went almost under the radar it didn't cause much of a stir.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I just don't see black people turning out for a Black superman film the way they turned out for Black Panther.

Black Panther showcased a futuristic yet culturely traditional fantasy fictional African nation. The movie also dealt with African diaspora's relations with Africans and colonialism. Things that will talk to a black audience. It also had the benefit of being a marvel film and marvel studios have a good track record that audiences trust.

We are most likely getting another traditional superman movie except with a black actor. Unless coates is making race a major component of his superman, I can't see anything that will draw a larger audience than previous recent superman films. JJ Abrams name isn't a guarantee of box office success either.

I hear you and I agree for the most part, but I don't know, there's something there with a Black Superman that can translate well if they really dig deep.

For example, as much as some people say that Superman is a metaphor for immigrants coming to live the American dream, you can use it to apply to African Americans and our history as well. We are descendants of a thriving continent but forced out of there by powers out of our control and brought to live in a new world that we were forced to build and defend while dealing with centuries of oppression. That sounds like Superman's trip from Krypton to Earth to me and with a writer like Coates, there's a way to connect the dots.

And then there's the whole idea of assimilation where Kal-El has to become Clark Kent so he won't ruffle any feathers, that's no different than say Black Americans trying to assimilate in spaces that people feel we don't belong in. From corporate America to the suburbs.

But that's just my interpretation.

 

[Web-Head]

This is bloody awesome. Can I nick this for the MCU X-Men thread?

Feel free!

 

[writer0327]

I just don't see black people turning out for a Black superman film the way they turned out for Black Panther.

Exactly, besides the fact that Black Panther was within a well-established universe, Black Panther is not some blackwashed version of a popular character. His character IS black, always has been black, and has his own history and stories that black folks are excited to get familiar with.

IMO, Black Superman is not a step forward, its just cheap, easy and lazy, and it shows DC only has confidence in promoting characters and IPs that have been historically white. And that's too bad because we really need more original black characters to hit the mainstream.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Making Superman black isn't cheap or easy, it's going to be massively popular and massively controversial. I don't know if it'll generate the level of hatred that women in Star Wars do, but it'll be along those lines. It's the right move, it'll pay off, but it's not "easy".

Superman is an eighty year old character. Every other version is white. Classic literary figures are radically reinvented all the time, there's a white Superman on TV and there will be white Supermen on the big screen in the future. Why on Earth can't they explore an interesting, unique twist that does nothing but add an extra dimension to him?

Hell, even if race wasn't part of the story they want to tell - which I'm sure it will be - who cares? There was no reason that, say, Man of Steel (or most superhero movies, just using that as an example 'cause it is Superman) shouldn't have had a completely colour blind casting process. None. Not saying they should have specifically gunned for a person of colour or not seen white actors if they weren't telling a story about that but intentionally limiting yourself to performers of one skin-tone feels... Self-sabotaging and antiquated.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

There was no reason that, say, Man of Steel (or most superhero movies, just using that as an example 'cause it is Superman) shouldn't have had a completely colour blind casting process.

Speaking of that movie; I have my moments wondering since I think casting Lawrence Fishburne as Perry White was a good decision, why do I have a less than welcoming stance towards Superman being black for a film? When it comes to some of the characters in these suits I have a defensive stance towards keeping the race shown on page.

 

[Schlosser85]

Speaking of that movie; I have my moments wondering since I think casting Lawrence Fishburne as Perry White was a good decision, why do I have a less than welcoming stance towards Superman being black for a film? When it comes to some of the characters in these suits I have a defensive stance towards keeping the race shown on page.

I have the exact same opinion. I couldn't care less about Laurence Fishburne playing Perry White (or Jack Crawford in Hannibal for that matter), and I don't care about, say, Jeffrey Wright playing Commissioner Gordon, but my feeling about a black Clark Kent is....ehhh. I think something feels reactive and pandery about it.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

I just don't see black people turning out for a Black superman film the way they turned out for Black Panther.

Black Panther showcased a futuristic yet culturely traditional fantasy fictional African nation. The movie also dealt with African diaspora's relations with Africans and colonialism. Things that will talk to a black audience. It also had the benefit of being a marvel film and marvel studios have a good track record that audiences trust.

We are most likely getting another traditional superman movie except with a black actor. Unless coates is making race a major component of his superman, I can't see anything that will draw a larger audience than previous recent superman films. JJ Abrams name isn't a guarantee of box office success either.

Me neither. People can try and downplay the Marvel factor all they want but if WB or any other studio released the exact same movie it doesn't make even half of what it did

 

[Sithborg]

Exactly, besides the fact that Black Panther was within a well-established universe, Black Panther is not some blackwashed version of a popular character. His character IS black, always has been black, and has his own history and stories that black folks are excited to get familiar with.

IMO, Black Superman is not a step forward, its just cheap, easy and lazy, and it shows DC only has confidence in promoting characters and IPs that have been historically white. And that's too bad because we really need more original black characters to hit the mainstream.

Knee jerk reaction. Given the writer that seems to be involved, I am willing to bet that this would not be a marketing gimmick, and would be used as part of the story. There is valid reasons to make Clark Kent not white.

 

[Schlosser85]

I hear you and I agree for the most part, but I don't know, there's something there with a Black Superman that can translate well if they really dig deep.

For example, as much as some people say that Superman is a metaphor for immigrants coming to live the American dream, you can use it to apply to African Americans and our history as well. We are descendants of a thriving continent but forced out of there by powers out of our control and brought to live in a new world that we were forced to build and defend while dealing with centuries of oppression. That sounds like Superman's trip from Krypton to Earth to me and with a writer like Coates, there's a way to connect the dots.

And then there's the whole idea of assimilation where Kal-El has to become Clark Kent so he won't ruffle any feathers, that's no different than say Black Americans trying to assimilate in spaces that people feel we don't belong in. From corporate America to the suburbs.

But that's just my interpretation.

That is an interesting interpretation that makes the idea slightly more intriguing to me.

You could even explore whether his process of assimilation is made more difficult if he's perceived as African-American.

 

[Sithborg]

Me neither. People can try and downplay the Marvel factor all they want but if WB or any other studio released the exact same movie it doesn't make even half of what it did

Fairly certain Ragnorok, Dr. Strange, and Ant-Man and Wasp are proof that a MCU appearence doesn't give you a sure thing at a billion. The MCU may be a factor, but that factor alone doesn't get those movies to the money they made. No matter how "overrated" you may think they are.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Black Panther would've been a huge deal with or without the MCU. That isn't true of all MCU movies, but it is true of Panther. Hell, it probably would've done even better critically if it was just a straight-up Coogler joint with none of Marvel's pre-requisite compromises and bad CG second-unit action.