Rotten Tomatoes watch thread

[Spider-Fan]

Absolutely. And also there was at least an attempt to tie TDW in with the over-arching narrative of Thanos and the Infinity Stones. The post-credits scene with the Collector was the first time we ever heard the words "Infinity Stones" mentioned in the MCU IIRC. So even though the movie itself was mediocre, people were still excited because there was a sense that we were building to something epic and awesome.

This confuses me cause Phase 4 has had this stuff as well. We already know what incursions are,we have seen the multiverse intrude into our reality, been exposed to variants, Kang, etc. The road leading to Secret Wars couldn't have been more clear for a long while in Phase 4. So TDW didn't do anything Phase 4 wasn't doing

 

[Holy Slapper]

Unpopular opinion, but I found A LOT of the phase 2 & 3 Marvel film's rotten score to be WAAAAY too high. Especially if it was anything other than BP, and Winter Soldier.

So in essence, you're saying that too many people, as in critics, liked it?

 

[Fosterson]

This confuses me cause Phase 4 has had this stuff as well. We already know what incursions are,we have seen the multiverse intrude into our reality, been exposed to variants, Kang, etc. The road leading to Secret Wars couldn't have been more clear for a long while in Phase 4. So TDW didn't do anything Phase 4 wasn't doing

I guess the difference is that all the multiverse stuff seems to be a lot more disjointed (I haven't a clue how the stuff in MoM connects to the TVA and the stuff in Loki - maybe Quantummania explains this but I haven't seen it). Like, for example, why didn't the TVA intervene when Strange and America were screwing around in the Illuminati-verse? Surely crossing into another universe creates the danger of a multiversal war?

By contrast, a big evil alien wanting a bunch of magic rocks is much more straightforward.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I guess the difference is that all the multiverse stuff seems to be a lot more disjointed (I haven't a clue how the stuff in MoM connects to the TVA and the stuff in Loki - maybe Quantummania explains this but I haven't seen it). Like, for example, why didn't the TVA intervene when Strange and America were screwing around in the Illuminati-verse? Surely crossing into another universe creates the danger of a multiversal war?

By contrast, a big evil alien wanting a bunch of magic rocks is much more straightforward.

I think a lot of the TVA stuff will be answered in Loki S2. MoM was post death of He Who Remains, so there was no TVA guarding a sacred timeline. The timelines are branching into one another now. Feige has said that all the multiversal incursion stuff began with Loki S1.

 

[DyeLorean]

The TVA opened a can of worms that I find trouble understanding the logic of everything that was presented in Loki. I like it!... But it's so beyond the realm of logic and reason that I can't follow it the same way I did before, hence why I'm not that interested in what is going on in the MCU right now.

The fact that any character exists everywhere, death is meaningless, anybody can come back, different versions, etc etc. It's very very hard to make anything matter.

I'm not surprised if critics and/or public can't jump on the wagon again.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The TVA opened a can of worms that I find trouble understanding the logic of everything that was presented in Loki. I like it!... But it's so beyond the realm of logic and reason that I can't follow it the same way I did before, hence why I'm not that interested in what is going on in the MCU right now.

The fact that any character exists everywhere, death is meaningless, anybody can come back, different versions, etc etc. It's very very hard to make anything matter.

I'm not surprised if critics and/or public can't jump on the wagon again.

I dont agree with that logic. Say multiverses are real. That doesn't mean anything to you. You live in your universe and when you die, you die. Regardless if there is another you out there in the multiverse, that "You" is essentially a different person. So for 616 Peter Parker, regardless if there is a Tobey or Andrew, I think it matters to that character if he lives and dies and so on. Sure you can replace RDJ Iron Man from Endgame with a character named Tony Stark, but he isn't THAT Tony Stark. It's effectively a new character. So no, death isn't remotely meaningless

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I've seen more than a few reviews that seem to be more critiques of the entire MCU post-Endgame than they are of the actual film itself and critics just suffering from MCU/CBM burnout in general.

 

[rashad]

52%
157 Reviews

 

[Deserana]

I dont agree with that logic. Say multiverses are real. That doesn't mean anything to you. You live in your universe and when you die, you die. Regardless if there is another you out there in the multiverse, that "You" is essentially a different person. So for 616 Peter Parker, regardless if there is a Tobey or Andrew, I think it matters to that character if he lives and dies and so on. Sure you can replace RDJ Iron Man from Endgame with a character named Tony Stark, but he isn't THAT Tony Stark. It's effectively a new character. So no, death isn't remotely meaningless

It depends how that character is used.

Loki is the best example of how it could be poorly done and also how damn lazy Marvel can be at incorporating it. You have a Loki that we’ve followed through multiple films all the way up to Endgame, seen him as a villain, seen him as an anti hero and eventually he ends as almost a complete good guy and, more importantly, true brother to Thor. It took hours, multiple films, ups and downs to grow to love THAT version of Loki and so it was genuinely heartbreaking when he eventually died while trying to do something right.

So next up is the Loki show with a new Loki fresh out of Avengers. As you said in your post, yes it’s Loki but it’s not THAT Loki. And what is the very first thing they do in the Loki show? They completely abandon that concept of him being different and within the first 5 minutes they show him the Hallmark highlights of his life and boom they’ve basically tried to tell us he’s now the exact same Loki we lost in Infinity War.

It’s pathetic storytelling. The new Loki, the trickster god himself, who just half an hour before seeing that video, was trying to kill the Avengers and take over Earth does a 180 because of a video. I emphasise trickster god because Loki would absolutely not take that video at face value. He, being devious himself, would likely assume that the TVA were just playing made up lies to him to make him think he’s good now, at the very LEAST he would not feel the emotional connection that he suddenly does. If you watched a video of an alternate you having a relationship you wished you had, it would be nice sure but not having lived it you are not going to take those emotions and adopt them yourself.

So yes there is a chance that they could utilise the multiverse that way in terms of bringing in similar characters but completely different but I have zero faith in them committing to that concept. For example if they bring in a new Stark, the maximum I’ll expect are a very quips about how the new Tony isn’t the same as the old. But in terms of story I would expect him to behave exactly as RJD would but with a different face.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It depends how that character is used.

Loki is the best example of how it could be poorly done and also how damn lazy Marvel can be at incorporating it. You have a Loki that we’ve followed through multiple films all the way up to Endgame, seen him as a villain, seen him as an anti hero and eventually he ends as almost a complete good guy and, more importantly, true brother to Thor. It took hours, multiple films, ups and downs to grow to love THAT version of Loki and so it was genuinely heartbreaking when he eventually died while trying to do something right.

So next up is the Loki show with a new Loki fresh out of Avengers. As you said in your post, yes it’s Loki but it’s not THAT Loki. And what is the very first thing they do in the Loki show? They completely abandon that concept of him being different and within the first 5 minutes they show him the Hallmark highlights of his life and boom they’ve basically tried to tell us he’s now the exact same Loki we lost in Infinity War.

It’s pathetic storytelling. The new Loki, the trickster god himself, who just half an hour before seeing that video, was trying to kill the Avengers and take over Earth does a 180 because of a video. I emphasise trickster god because Loki would absolutely not take that video at face value. He, being devious himself, would likely assume that the TVA were just playing made up lies to him to make him think he’s good now, at the very LEAST he would not feel the emotional connection that he suddenly does. If you watched a video of an alternate you having a relationship you wished you had, it would be nice sure but not having lived it you are not going to take those emotions and adopt them yourself.

So yes there is a chance that they could utilise the multiverse that way in terms of bringing in similar characters but completely different but I have zero faith in them committing to that concept. For example if they bring in a new Stark, the maximum I’ll expect are a very quips about how the new Tony isn’t the same as the old. But in terms of story I would expect him to behave exactly as RJD would but with a different face.

The entire 1st episode of Loki goes far to show Loki how his pursuit of power is meaningless, and yes the video isn't THAT Loki, but he is seeing his alternate future and ultimately the kind of person Loki can be if he wants to be. So that worked for me in developing new Loki. Might they approach the story how you outline? Sure. Anything on screen is about how it's executed. But I am more than willing to allow the Multiverse Saga to unfold and judge it for what it is in the end. Back when they made The Avengers, could we have predicted what IW/EG turned out to be?

If you don't like where it's going, that is fine. But I am willing to be patient.

 

[Deserana]

The entire 1st episode of Loki goes far to show Loki how his pursuit of power is meaningless, and yes the video isn't THAT Loki, but he is seeing his alternate future and ultimately the kind of person Loki can be if he wants to be. So that worked for me in developing new Loki. Might they approach the story how you outline? Sure. Anything on screen is about how it's executed. But I am more than willing to allow the Multiverse Saga to unfold and judge it for what it is in the end. Back when they made The Avengers, could we have predicted what IW/EG turned out to be?

If you don't like where it's going, that is fine. But I am willing to be patient.

I just feel the standard of writing and storytelling is weak in general compared to pre Phase 4 too. It was hard to see IW/EG coming, true but there was also a steady and cohesive build up to it. Most importantly, aside from a few missteps, the movies were themselves actual stories with character arcs, inventive action sequences and well written dialogue.

I can’t really say that about any Phase 4 stuff. Everything feels like set up for set ups while forgetting to be well written or inventive in its own right. I’ve watched and rewatched all of Phase 1,2 and 3 multiple times except maybe Thor 2. I’ve watched none of Phase 4 twice and most importantly, have no desire to. All the stories feel unfinished. And I don’t have any faith that they will be paid off.

Also just visually they look terrible now. The volume screen is ruining Disney products, everything looks like two actors stood on a sound stage staring into space. There’s zero character work going into anything, at least nothing consistent or satisfying. Wanda for example, it felt like they forgot to end her story in WandaVision, she looks remorseful and upset, then she gets told “they’ll never know what you sacrificed for them” in regards to Westview (what the actual F*ck) and then the next film she’s unleashing multiversal monsters onto a teenager while hunting her down and murdering a monastery. It’s just stupid and shows how disconnected it all is.

 

[blackdragon6]

So in essence, you're saying that too many people, as in critics, liked it?

Critics and viewers. Not saying they should be rotten, but most definitely didn't deserve the 90-80+ something fresh scores they got.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I just feel the standard of writing and storytelling is weak in general compared to pre Phase 4 too. It was hard to see IW/EG coming, true but there was also a steady and cohesive build up to it. Most importantly, aside from a few missteps, the movies were themselves actual stories with character arcs, inventive action sequences and well written dialogue.

I can’t really say that about any Phase 4 stuff. Everything feels like set up for set ups while forgetting to be well written or inventive in its own right. I’ve watched and rewatched all of Phase 1,2 and 3 multiple times except maybe Thor 2. I’ve watched none of Phase 4 twice and most importantly, have no desire to. All the stories feel unfinished. And I don’t have any faith that they will be paid off.

Also just visually they look terrible now. The volume screen is ruining Disney products, everything looks like two actors stood on a sound stage staring into space. There’s zero character work going into anything, at least nothing consistent or satisfying. Wanda for example, it felt like they forgot to end her story in WandaVision, she looks remorseful and upset, then she gets told “they’ll never know what you sacrificed for them” in regards to Westview (what the actual F*ck) and then the next film she’s unleashing multiversal monsters onto a teenager while hunting her down and murdering a monastery. It’s just stupid and shows how disconnected it all is.

The Infinity Saga did thay kind if stuff too. Stark literally blew up his suits in Iron Man 3, then is immediately Iron Man with even more drones in AoU where he retires AGAIN and in CW he AGAIN is Iron Man. Rhodes in CW goes from being okay he got injured cause they needed to fight the good fight to very next time we see him calling out Ross and the Accords for calling Cap and co criminals. The MCU has never been great from film to film carry over when you examine too deep with a microscope.

 

[herolee10]

The Infinity Saga did thay kind if stuff too. Stark literally blew up his suits in Iron Man 3, then is immediately Iron Man with even more drones in AoU where he retires AGAIN and in CW he AGAIN is Iron Man. Rhodes in CW goes from being okay he got injured cause they needed to fight the good fight to very next time we see him calling out Ross and the Accords for calling Cap and co criminals. The MCU has never been great from film to film carry over when you examine too deep with a microscope.

And let's not forget how they glossed over the repercussions caused by the blip, both during and after the 5-year period.

 

[rashad]

Wanda for example, it felt like they forgot to end her story in WandaVision, she looks remorseful and upset, then she gets told “they’ll never know what you sacrificed for them” in regards to Westview (what the actual F*ck) and then the next film she’s unleashing multiversal monsters onto a teenager while hunting her down and murdering a monastery. It’s just stupid and shows how disconnected it all is.

This was one of the dumbest pieces of dialogue I've ever heard. No consequences or anything.

 

[Deserana]

The Infinity Saga did thay kind if stuff too. Stark literally blew up his suits in Iron Man 3, then is immediately Iron Man with even more drones in AoU where he retires AGAIN and in CW he AGAIN is Iron Man. Rhodes in CW goes from being okay he got injured cause they needed to fight the good fight to very next time we see him calling out Ross and the Accords for calling Cap and co criminals. The MCU has never been great from film to film carry over when you examine too deep with a microscope.

No one is examining deep with a microscope and your examples are not proof of your point. Stark destroys his suits in 3 but doesnt give up Iron Man, he just agrees to not have it be a larger part of his life than Pepper, which leads to Ultron as a progression of that idea as Ultron means that no Super needs to be constantly fighting crime, which leads to Civil War and him addressing his failures such as Ultron and agreeing to need regulations in place. His stories, while being wildly different, do have a logical progression. And it all leads to his ultimate sacrifice in Endgame.

Rhodey is gravely injured but we literally see him progress to get better through the technology given to him by Stark so it is not a leap to see him back in action in the next film. This isn’t microscopic analysis. It’s basic writing. I’m not saying they nailed it all the time but more often than not, they did.

Thor went from Endgame to Love and Thunder. He went from a strong, mature character dealing with grief and failure with seemingly never ending loss and 1 movie later he is an absolute clown. Wanda went from regretting Westview and apologetic to the town to a full blown psychopath off screen before Dr Strange 2. Loki goes from mass murdering, world conquering villain, to good guy chummy brother in about 5 minutes of screen time. The Falcon show managed to the opposite, he managed to go from the end of Endgame where he took the mantle of Captain America to the end of his show where he… *checks notes*… took the mantle of Captain America with a costume.

Spiderman NWH is the only film that actually seemed to correctly follow the pre established movies and behaviours. Everything else in phase 4 was new stuff and new heroes most of which seemed completely disconnected to everything else. And not in a good way. Massive kaiju fights, sentinels sticking out of Earth but never mentioned by anything or anyone.

 

[psylockolussus]

This 2nd rotten rating for a mcu film sucks for those who pride Marvel Studios for their great track record in Rotten Tomatoes. I thought Eternals was gonna be a 1 time thing for a long time but nope, its not even 2 years yet. I just hope this doesn't happen to an Avengers movie, F4 and Xpecially X-Men.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Critics and viewers. Not saying they should be rotten, but most definitely didn't deserve the 90-80+ something fresh scores they got.

But that's just math. They got those scores because more people gave a positive score for the movie than a negative one. It's not a review score, it's plain math.

 

[Iceman]

This 2nd rotten rating for a mcu film sucks for those who pride Marvel Studios for their great track record in Rotten Tomatoes. I thought Eternals was gonna be a 1 time thing for a long time but nope, its not even 2 years yet. I just hope this doesn't happen to an Avengers movie, F4 and Xpecially X-Men.

It just shows crazy that run was. But yeah, I’ll be very disappointed if any of the ones you name don’t get a Fresh.

 

[Deserana]

This was one of the dumbest pieces of dialogue I've ever heard. No consequences or anything.

It was hilarious. I still can’t comprehend where that line came from. I was obsessed with that show for the first 4/5 episodes. I was dumbfounded with how it ended. Well I say ended even though not a single characters story was actually finished in that story. Wanda? Nope. Vision? Nope. Agatha? Nope. And I’ll still never forgive them for throwing in a Fox X Men character as basically a **** you for caring.

 

[Spider-Fan]

No one is examining deep with a microscope and your examples are not proof of your point. Stark destroys his suits in 3 but doesnt give up Iron Man, he just agrees to not have it be a larger part of his life than Pepper, which leads to Ultron as a progression of that idea as Ultron means that no Super needs to be constantly fighting crime, which leads to Civil War and him addressing his failures such as Ultron and agreeing to need regulations in place. His stories, while being wildly different, do have a logical progression. And it all leads to his ultimate sacrifice in Endgame.

Rhodey is gravely injured but we literally see him progress to get better through the technology given to him by Stark so it is not a leap to see him back in action in the next film. This isn’t microscopic analysis. It’s basic writing. I’m not saying they nailed it all the time but more often than not, they did.

Thor went from Endgame to Love and Thunder. He went from a strong, mature character dealing with grief and failure with seemingly never ending loss and 1 movie later he is an absolute clown. Wanda went from regretting Westview and apologetic to the town to a full blown psychopath off screen before Dr Strange 2. Loki goes from mass murdering, world conquering villain, to good guy chummy brother in about 5 minutes of screen time. The Falcon show managed to the opposite, he managed to go from the end of Endgame where he took the mantle of Captain America to the end of his show where he… *checks notes*… took the mantle of Captain America with a costume.

Spiderman NWH is the only film that actually seemed to correctly follow the pre established movies and behaviours. Everything else in phase 4 was new stuff and new heroes.

My point wasn't about Rhodey being back in action. It's about his attitude toward the Accords doing an offscreen 180 for plot convenience. I disagree on Stark's journey being logical. It's very all over the place, but each movie tricks you because RDJ is charming and amazing at what he does.

Marvel has never been this super meticulously plotted thing. It gives you the illusion it is, but it is full of retcons and inconsistency. I don't see anything different in their approach from their to now. What I do think is different is Marvel is heading into the type of material that is, for lack of a better world, more comic booky and out there. So people are not as attached to the core story, and thus the cracks that have been there all this time show up easier.

 

[JannTosh]

Unpopular opinion, but I found A LOT of the phase 2 & 3 Marvel film's rotten score to be WAAAAY too high. Especially if it was anything other than BP, and Winter Soldier.

I chuckle when people say "Phase 4 is when Marvel jumped off the rails" and "Marvel is now putting too much humor that undercuts the drama". Uh, do you remember movies like Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron that were filled with jokes and non serious villains?

 

[Hannibal75]

This 2nd rotten rating for a mcu film sucks for those who pride Marvel Studios for their great track record in Rotten Tomatoes. I thought Eternals was gonna be a 1 time thing for a long time but nope, its not even 2 years yet. I just hope this doesn't happen to an Avengers movie, F4 and Xpecially X-Men.

The most surprising thing is that Love and Thunder got a fresh rating.

 

[Deserana]

My point wasn't about Rhodey being back in action. It's about his attitude toward the Accords doing an offscreen 180 for plot convenience. I disagree on Stark's journey being logical. It's very all over the place, but each movie tricks you because RDJ is charming and amazing at what he does.

Marvel has never been this super meticulously plotted thing. It gives you the illusion it is, but it is full of retcons and inconsistency. I don't see anything different in their approach from their to now. What I do think is different is Marvel is heading into the type of material that is, for lack of a better world, more comic booky and out there. So people are not as attached to the core story, and thus the cracks that have been there all this time show up easier.

I do agree in the sense that it was never well plotted and they did kind of fumble their way to the finish line but they also hired good writers and directors to kick start their vision so tell good stories.

Now you’ve got writers that openly say they dont care about the source, have few credits to their names and don’t seem to have a clue about how to write compelling scenes. Even the Dr Strange 2 writer literally said about his own script concerning the second act that “he didn’t know what to do with the script, it’s act 2 so something big has gotta happen” that’s a direct ****ing quote from a guy handed the keys to the Dr Strange multiverse movie.

The writer of the next Avengers film is the guy whose only movie credit is currently getting panned and also the Jimmy Kimmel show. The director did Shang Chi which was fine but other than that, a couple indie films. Compared to Joss Whedon who was a nerd god with so many impressive credits under his name in both writing and directing. And the Russo brothers who also had a huge number of well recieved TV director credits and a love for the characters, with a writing team that they already had a good working relationship with.

It’s night and day in terms of approach.

 

[Deserana]

I chuckle when people say "Phase 4 is when Marvel jumped off the rails" and "Marvel is now putting too much humor that undercuts the drama". Uh, do you remember movies like Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron that were filled with jokes and non serious villains?

The thing is back then these were brought up as issues. However they were the exception and not the rule. In between those films you had seriousness when it was needed. Now it really is every film, even this film has been criticised for its tone.