Across the Kraven-verse: How Sony Won the Superhero Cinematic Civil War Thread - Part 59

[Spider-Fan]

Think it was pretty obvious he was saying he wanted a person with known screen presence and charisma to have the role. And reading between the lines, it doesn’t seem like he trusts Gunn’s sensibilities, so there’s a natural skepticism that the actor he did choose won’t be great.

And again: couldn’t care less if you disagree with him, I just didn’t really appreciate how it was being done.

I am going to assume this is largely directed at me, and to this I say there are levels of ridiculous. On the costume front, we simply disagree and that is fine. My one reply was directed simply at the notion that posting pics of cosplays and such side by side isn't going to sway me on that front, but if you find the aesthetic of the movie ugly thay is fine. Matter of taste. But when you are whining about an actor in the cast and you are basing it on fancasting you yourself did and not on any quantifiable aspect of the guys performance, your argument is ridiculous and I am going to call it out as ridiculous. Like I said, if the guy simply is not giving anything in the movie a chance even when there isn't evidence of things like the actor sucks in the role based on zero evidence, then why would I expect his opinion to be anything other than the movie will be bad? Mind is already made up and I don't take his takes seriously based on these comments. Was I harsh? Maybe, but some opinions are just ridiculous and come from a place of ridiculouness. Sorry if that offends, but it's the truth

 

[Marvel united]

There's also a way to bring up complaints that isn't borderline hysteria.

I'm not sure what your definition of hysteria is, but nothing about what I said, or how I said it, fits the colloquial understanding of that expression, or at least my understanding of that meaning.

I was simply expressing an opinion. If anything, I think the use of terms like "whiny fanboy" is hysterical, considering the fact that we're *all fanboys, on a superhero forum, talking about comic book movies.

"Passion" and "hysteria", are not synonyms.

 

[Boy Scout]

I am going to assume this is largely directed at me, and to this I say there are levels of ridiculous. On the costume front, we simply disagree and that is fine. My one reply was directed simply at the notion that posting pics of cosplays and such side by side isn't going to sway me on that front, but if you find the aesthetic of the movie ugly thay is fine. Matter of taste. But when you are whining about an actor in the cast and you are basing it on fancasting you yourself did and not on any quantifiable aspect of the guys performance, your argument is ridiculous and I am going to call it out as ridiculous. Like I said, if the guy simply is not giving anything in the movie a chance even when there isn't evidence of things like the actor sucks in the role based on zero evidence, then why would I expect his opinion to be anything other than the movie will be bad? Mind is already made up and I don't take his takes seriously based on these comments. Was I harsh? Maybe, but some opinions are just ridiculous and come from a place of ridiculouness. Sorry if that offends, but it's the truth

Hey, man, you do you. You’re a mod so you don’t have to listen to me.

But maybe I’m not being clear. (Not being sarcastic.) You can feel however you want about what he said. I just expected you (and others) to be a little more respectful about it.

And I’ll be 100% honest: I think it’s ridiculous that another poster was accused of colorism, like, 3 weeks ago and nobody had any energy to spare for that conversation, but there’s plenty of folks waiting in the wings to make 100 jokes about Morbius or dunk on MU for his opinion.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Hey, man, you do you. You’re a mod so you don’t have to listen to me.

But maybe I’m not being clear. (Not being sarcastic.) You can feel however you want about what he said. I just expected you (and others) to be a little more respectful about it.

And I’ll be 100% honest: I think it’s ridiculous that another poster was accused of colorism, like, 3 weeks ago and nobody had any energy to spare for that conversation, but there’s plenty of folks waiting in the wings to make 100 jokes about Morbius or dunk on MU for his opinion.

I dont remember this colorism discussion, in all honesty. I am sure you are right and it happened, but I must have missed it whenever it happened. So I have no opinion on that matter.

As for the issue of respect, I respect people's opinions and am one of the first to usually mention that when i disagree. But there are limits to what opinions I can take seriously or not. I call them as I see them in that regard.

Also, like someone else here said, James Gunn gets plenty of hate on this forum and in this thread. So it ain't like he is some protected Saint or something like Christopher Nolan tends to be. But even James Gunn detractors have agreed with me on this.

 

[Boy Scout]

I dont remember this colorism discussion, in all honesty. I am sure you are right and it happened, but I must have missed it whenever it happened. So I have no opinion on that matter.

As for the issue of respect, I respect people's opinions and am one of the first to usually mention that when i disagree. But there are limits to what opinions I can take seriously or not. I call them as I see them in that regard.

That’s fine. Your opinion of his opinion is perfectly valid. All I’m saying is that it could’ve been expressed in a way that was less rude. If you don’t feel like you were being rude or were justifiably rude, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Also, like someone else here said, James Gunn gets plenty of hate on this forum and in this thread. So it ain't like he is some protected Saint or something like Christopher Nolan tends to be. But even James Gunn detractors have agreed with me on this.

I assume you’re saying this is in reference to his circle jerk comment.

I don’t think defending James Gunn is specifically what he meant by that. More so the dog piling you sometimes see in general.

 

[Sithborg]

Sometimes, you just get **** from other posters.

I know some have taken serious issues with how I prefer The Batman vs Nolan's TDK stuff. Some of it can come as a surprise. Others, less so, when I say Apocalypse is a better movie than Infinity War.

I also tend to stay out of most of the movie forums because of the elevation of the material. I'm a big X-men fan, Apocalypse is one of my favorite villains. But calling him the Thanos of the X-men? Nah.

 

[The Batman]

The Morbius jokes are,IMO, unfunny and played out, but harmless. Rude as it may be, MU is being dunked on for some of his opinions centered around casting, which more people will have opinions on. Accusing a poster of colorism is more of a personal attack, which is the kind of thing that can derail a thread. Also, I have a feeling a lot of Hypesters don't pay much attention to the topic of colorism to begin with.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't find it surprising that the colorism accusation had less energy put into it than the other two topics.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don’t care how anyone feels about the casting. I’m talking about how MU was addressed. There’s a way to engage with someone when you disagree with what you’re saying that isn’t borderline hostile.

No one posts in a vacuum here. If you constantly enter a thread and scream bloody murder over everything you don't like, people notice and it gets tiresome. That said, who responded to marvel united in even a mildly aggressive tone outside of Spider-Fan? A mod, who if they start responding to you in such a way, is usually an indicator of perhaps needing to step back and consider one's posting habits? You get what you give. If you are going to come in and write something like this:

That's why I normally stay out of this thread. It's very circle jerk

because people actually have the temerity to argue with you in the CIVIL WAR thread, why expect the Iceman treatment? That comes with being the jolliest person on the hype, not complaining about the existence of other posters.

Second, yes, absurdity is going to get called out. You wrote,

Y’all are weird sometimes.

Sure, I wouldn’t have said it with my whole chest like MU did, but all he’s really asking for are better actors and better costumes. Not saying anyone needs to agree with him but some of the responses he got were over the top.

While I agree about the costumes, the better actors comments is strange as hell. As Sithborg pointed out, casting is the least of the MCU's issues. They have top talent on speed dial and have an insanely good hit rate with casting. Even in the GOTG films which are being discussed, outside of Star-Lord, is there really a casting decision that even a large contingent of the audience or fanbase has found the least bit an issue? Even boring Gamora rarely gets a peep, because that isn't an actor situation. It's the writing.

So in summation, there are "over-the-top" responses here, but it ain't those responding to marvel united.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hey, man, you do you. You’re a mod so you don’t have to listen to me.

But maybe I’m not being clear. (Not being sarcastic.) You can feel however you want about what he said. I just expected you (and others) to be a little more respectful about it.

And I’ll be 100% honest: I think it’s ridiculous that another poster was accused of colorism, like, 3 weeks ago and nobody had any energy to spare for that conversation, but there’s plenty of folks waiting in the wings to make 100 jokes about Morbius or dunk on MU for his opinion.

No one was accused of colorism. It was rightly pointed out that they brought it into the thread in a manner that questioned the authenticity of the blackness of lighter skinned sisters. That this poster is also one who defended Wright of her anti-vax and bigotry because she's black (their words), and accused the thread of racism for daring to call her terrible, enforced the argument. Though I don't remember you having energy for that...

 

[squeekness]

Calmly, people. Let's agree to disagree and keep the comments civil.

 

[Ninjablade]

I mean this was the original comment Spider-Fan responded to:

Gunn should've went with a DENZEL or GINCARLO, somebody who commands the screen. High Evolutionary demands an A-list actor, not some random guy that Gunn is friends with.

I think it's fair for people to push back on this idea that an actor was given an important role simply because of nepotism given Marvel's track record of casting incredibly talented individuals no matter that length of career or caliber of stardom.

Could MU be right, and this guy can't properly play the role he was given? Sure, that's always a possibility. We're 6 months out from having an answer, so MU speaking so definitively on the situation is going to cause people to point that out and be a little irritated because it happens constantly.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Listen, I got no beef with fan casting. But when you think you know better than the filmmakers and let the fancasting be some kind of criticism of the film, then we have crossed into territory where I am going to say something. In general to fancasting, actors are not being paid to play the character you read about in comic books. They are being paid to play the character in the script. Maybe that character is like the one in your head. Maybe not. So in your mind, Denzel is the High Evolutionary is all fine and good....but unless you have some kind of connections I don't, you haven't read the script or had discussions with the filmmakers and Producers about the vision of the character FOR THE FILM! They know the script and story and what their version of this character requires. Gunn hired this guy for that vision, and maybe he is a better fit based on the script. We won't know until we see the movie. But what I do know is if you have blinded yourself to that 1 vision you have of that character, then well....I know where your opinion is going to land in May.

Plus, all kinds of real life things can lead to no Denzel: maybe Denzel is playing someone else, maybe he said no, maybe schedules don't match, maybe 100 other things. Or, again....maybe this guy is better for THIS High Evolutionary.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Listen, I got no beef with fan casting. But when you think you know better than the filmmakers and let the fancasting be some kind of criticism of the film, then we have crossed into territory where I am going to say something. In general to fancasting, actors are not being paid to play the character you read about in comic books. They are being paid to play the character in the script. So in your mind, Denzel is the High Evolutionary is all fine and good....but unless you have some kind of connections I don't, you haven't read the script or had discussions with the filmmakers and Producers about the vision of the character FOR THE FILM! They know the script and story and what their version of this character requires. Gunn hired this guy for that vision, and maybe he is a better fit based on the script. We won't know until we see the movie. But what I do know is if you have blinded yourself to that 1 vision you have of that character, then well....I know where your opinion is going to land in May.

Plus, all kinds of real life things can lead to no Denzel: maybe Denzel is playing someone else, maybe he said no, maybe schedules don't match, maybe 100 other things. Or, again....maybe this guy is better for THIS High Evolutionary.

Or say, Daniel Day-Lewis. Who is literally retired.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Becky Lynch had her scene cut from Eternals... another reason to hate that terrible movie.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

No one was accused of colorism. It was rightly pointed out that they brought it into the thread in a manner that questioned the authenticity of the blackness of lighter skinned sisters. That this poster is also one who defended Wright of her anti-vax and bigotry because she's black (their words), and accused the thread of racism for daring to call her terrible, enforced the argument. Though I don't remember you having energy for that...

No sir, no one questioned the blackness of anyone. One pointed out that it was good on Disney for giving unambiguously black women (which are again a rarity in Hollywood) a whole movie to carry and they did it to the very best of their abilities.

And yes I did point out the hypocrisy of some people in this thread for giving said actress sh** but all the while giving a pass to someone like Evangeline Lilly who continually gives into ignorance.

So if you’re going to call me out, please come correct Darth. But that’s all.

And for the record, I love everyone in this thread. We agree to disagree at times, and that’s what makes this thread fun.

 

[moviedoors]

Make him Charles!

No no no, make him Magneto, and make Laurence Fishburn Xavier.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No sir, no one questioned the blackness of anyone. One pointed out that it was good on Disney for giving unambiguously black women (which are again a rarity in Hollywood) a whole movie to carry and they did it to the very best of their abilities.

And yes I did point out the hypocrisy of some people in this thread for giving said actress sh** but all the while giving a pass to someone like Evangeline Lilly who continually gives into ignorance.

So if you’re going to call me out, please come correct Darth. But that’s all.

And for the record, I love everyone in this thread. We agree to disagree at times, and that’s what makes this thread fun.

What qualifies a person to be unambiguously black as opposed to ambiguously black?

Let's forget that you were obviously wrong about the Lily stuff. She has been called out plenty, as have other white actors. Wright's movie wasn't only next, they made her the lead, and more to the point, she posted anti-trans and anti-gay material. So what you did, inadvertently or not, was downplay someone's bigotry and anti-vax BS in a thread with known LGBTQIA+ members and people who either suffered greatly from COVID and even lost people to COVID. Because she's black. One form of bigotry isn't a bigger plague then the other. They are all bad. That said, we are living in a time where in the US and UK, LGBTQIA+ folks are living through an attempted genocide. So maybe, consider that.

It's hard to accept someone's love, when they are willing to give "the benefit of the doubt" to someone who wants you dead.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No no no, make him Magneto, and make Laurence Fishburn Xavier.

****, that is good.

 

[Ninjablade]

No no no, make him Magneto, and make Laurence Fishburn Xavier.

Fishburne is already Bill Foster though

 

[moviedoors]

****, that is good.

Thank you, one my personal favorite fancastings. I think we're too far gone timewise to invoke holocaust survivors now with this character (unless you really lean into how old Magneto would actually be now. An elderly, physically infirm man whose also one of the most powerful mutants in the world could be awesome), but I think you could scale the bigotry metaphor up a few decades to the Civil Rights era, and everything would still track perfectly.

 

[moviedoors]

Fishburn is already Bill Foster though

Screw it, it's too good not to do.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, it’s not like Denzel is anxiously sitting by the phone, waiting for the call from Gunn or Feige. Maybe he is interesting in starring in a Marvel film, I have no idea. But it’s crazy to me to just assume Chukwudi Iwuji is going to suck in the role because… he’s not Denzel. I mean, what? I’ve only seen Iwuji in one thing (Peacemaker) but he was really good in that so hopefully he knocks this role out of the park. If not, fine. But give the guy a chance, since he has the role.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Fishburn is already Bill Foster though

 

[Ninjablade]

*animated X-Men theme stinger*

 

[DarthSkywalker]

*animated X-Men theme stinger*