Episode 1 - 'Rise of the Blue Beetle!' Discussion Thread

Well here is my opinion.

I started watching this episode and I got myself fascinated with all the cliches from the Clock King and the deathtrap where Bat´s and Green Arrow where. The overall story wasn´t spectacular but worked out fine for me. I must admit I´m not very acclimated to all the fantastic gadget Batman has (Like the sticker batarang from his symbol), or Batman´s dialogue, but it´s growing on me. Not that is written badly, is just diferent from what I have been hearing from him the last years. (Not counting the episodes of the Adam West show)

I would have loved to read some Dick Sprang stuff, and I think with the show I kinda getting this. It is still Batman, and I loved how many aspects of his basic personality are showing in this take of the character. Overall I liked this episode a lot. Looking forward for the next episode.

And yes. The Joker is in the names of the opening, I hope he gets " Dick Spranged".
 
How did I forgot? Did anyone catched the reference from Frank Miller´s The Dark Knight Returns?

A Brave and the Boldized version of the cover is on Blue Bettle´s wall.

Starro is in one of these pictures too.
 
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I'm a nostalgic guy who still enjoys the old Space Ghost, Birdman, and the old DC Comics cartoons from Filmation. This show seems like a love letter to those old cartoons. I'm digging it so far. The look of the show really reminds me of the work of Alex Toth, Jack Kirby, Dick Sprang, and Mike Ploog.:up:
 
I don't have cartoon network so any other places online I can watch?
 
I don't see this up on Youtube yet excpet for an incomplete version where someone just filmed their TV so the sound sucks. Anyone know when the rerun will be aired on Cartoon Network? I know they rerun their stuff, especially new stuff all the time so they'll probably show it again. Heck they're probably rerunning it now but I'm at work so I don't know.

P.S. and unrelated, any else watch and kind of like that "Secret Saturdays" show? It's very influenced by old comics, you can tell.
 
I just watched it today and have to say that it was kinda fun but nothing amazing. IT should be fun to watch.
 
I was in-different to it.

I enjoyed the style of the show, they got the look down pat. The campyness of it, takes a bit to get use to, first viewing it was a bit bothersome, but watching it again, you get out of the whole "Dark Knight" persona, and into a more light persona of the Cape Crusader, it becomes fun to watch.

Im not that big of a fan of the entire DC universe, but Blue Beetle was a fun character to watch, my only gripe is having Oswald from Drew Carrey show as Batman's voice, just doesn't work for me.
 
Finally managed to catch this episode online, and after a helpful nudge from Mister J, I found the time to post my thoughts on this.

The Batman franchise is the healthiest one that WB has in terms of DC characters. SUPERMAN RETURNS' underwhelming performance spooked the heck out of them, causing them to back peddle pretty much anything that isn't Batman or Vertigo stuff. Over the past 15 years or so, Batman's presence on the small screen (as well as big) has usually been constant, from BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES that switched titles three times and even switched networks to last over 100 episodes, to BATMAN BEYOND featuring a new, teenage Batman, to JUSTICE LEAGUE/JLU that added that Batman to a team of like heroes. Then, a new take on the Dark Knight in the controversial THE BATMAN, a show that attempted to blend darkness and light for a 21st century audience well used to anime. And that doesn't even count any Bat-guest appearances on shows like STATIC SHOCK or the BATMAN BEYOND spin off, THE ZETA PROJECT. Or even Batman's "sidekick" Robin being among the main characters of TEEN TITANS.

When I originally saw preview art for BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD, I almost laughed. It looked and sounded like "Batman Team Up", which was what the last season of THE BATMAN was. Furthermore, it seemed to take the very same Dick Sprang artwork and style that B:TAS once mocked and ran with it full time. I wasn't especially impressed nor was I inclined to make superhuman efforts to see the program.

There may be many reasons why this approach was taken for another Batman cartoon, especially with the "dark, scary" DARK KNIGHT scoring one of the best box offices in history. Some will say it was made deliberately towards kids, especially those in third grade or younger, and maybe that is true. But it may also be true that, literally, there is no other incarnation of Batman yet to strip-mine in animation. Think about it. Sure, Batman started out cheesy in the 70's with his own show (where Adam West and Burt Ward reprised their roles from the 60's show) the SUPERPOWERS stuff and all the SUPERFRIENDS incarnations that lasted into the 80's, but then there was a drought of Batman animation for nearly a decade. It would prove to be a pivotal decade as THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS would sort of bring back the desire for a grim, edgy, gritty Batman to the comics and naturally the start of the gothic Tim Burton Batman films in 1989 and 1992. The popularity of these films of course got WB to commission the making of B:TAS which was naturally dark to ape the tone. That incarnation of Batman lasted some 5-6 seasons and so forth; JLU helped ease him down a peg from, say, "I AM THE NIGHT", but Batman was still a dark character.

THE BATMAN sought to balance that out. Sometimes Batman was a daylight superhero with more gadgets than Inspector Gadget fighting broad supervillains. And other times he was a nightly vigilante who was scaring the daylights out of them. His costume colors were still dark and the themes of him avenging his parent's deaths were still there. This, too, was a 'toon that came forth due to a movie, BATMAN BEGINS. Overall, THE BATMAN was an average show. It had some terrific episodes. And a lot of terrible episodes. And a messload that were in-between. Rating = average.

And heck, BATMAN BEYOND provided Kid's WB with a teenage Batman, and it actually worked out well. It was set in the future and had all sorts of spiffy tech.

So, honestly, there was little left to mine that hadn't been done in the recent past but the "gee, whiz", Dick Sprang, over the top, BIFF! POW! era of Batman, which lasted just as long as some of the others.

But enough history; what to make of BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD's pilot episode, "Rise of the Blue Beetle"?

Firstly, as a fan of the just-canceled BLUE BEETLE comic book starring the Jaime Reyes character, I honestly have to say it is great seeing him brought to animation so soon with an accurate character model to Cully Hamnar's design and with great voicework by Will Friedle, best known as Terry McGinnis and Ron Stoppable. Considering the solo adventures of the comic version will be ending in a few months after a run of three years, it was a treat to see.

And secondly, I still am not quite sure what to make of BRAVE AND THE BOLD thus far. I will say outright that if your "definition" of Batman is a grim, serious, urban vigilante who only is a superhero on the Justice League for obligation, then you will think this stinks. It will go against all that you hold dear about Batman. Heck, I would argue Batman on this show is barely a character, but a schtick.

On the other hand, if you enjoyed some of those cheese ball storylines, happened to be a fan who preferred a lighter Batman who could actually smile and sometimes make puns, or just are in the mood for something fun in an era of a lot of superhero seriousness and melodrama, it should make for a fun diversion. The show reminds me a lot of SUPERFRIENDS, only with better animation, action, and acting. And a bit more self-awareness and details for fans to pick out.

It also, in a strange way, reminds me of how cartoons were in the early 80's. Those of us over 25 or so remember the early 80's. Cartoons were fun, even when the world was at stake, Spider-Man would still be making fast quips with Iceman and Firestar in SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS. Even He-Man had no end of one-liners at times. The villains were cheesy, over the top, NEVER even wanted to kill the hero when given half the chance. There was a very strong moral in every episode that, if it wasn't hammered home with obvious lines and pacing, was outright TOLD to you in the final minutes by one of the star characters (such as when Inspector Gadget or one of the G.I. Joe's would tell us about safety. "AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!"). Put BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD up against a few shows from before the end of the 80's and aside for animation, a viewer from Mars may think they belong in the same era.

Honestly, if this show took itself seriously, it would be a flop. But it doesn't. All the bits YOU think are ridiculous, so do some of the producers and they work with it. Debates about Batman breathing in space, his Omnipotent Utility Belt, and even Prep-Time rage in every Bat-fan, and this cartoon uses them both up-front and also with a bit of tongue in cheek. This does add to the idea of Batman merely being a schtick here and not a character. But he is an entertaining schtick.

The episode starts out in one of those old 60's type situations with Batman stuck in a slow moving death trap while the cackling villain flees to go rob some joint. Only this time he is alongside Green Arrow. His Bat-Symbol can come off his chest and become a Batarang, and his utility belt has, among other things, a LIGHT SABER. Or it be a Bat-Saber? Of course, to be fair, Batman pulled out Bat-Swords in JLU's "DARK HEART" episode. He outright calls the situation a "death-trap" and as he bickers with Green Arrow the tone is left very light. You never feel the characters are in any danger, but hey, that was the same tone of BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA, and that movie was awesome (and also 80's).

Right away, we meet Jaime and Paco, who are having their own debates about Batman's omnipotent gadgets or Prep-Time, and even acknowledge that they are both true and a bit absurd if you look at it too seriously. They watch the showdown with Arrow & Batman against the Clock King and sort of commentate on it like many fans watching at home with pals might (I recall having some lines when I used to watch JLU with pals). When Batman comes to visit Jaime for a mission, he even has a sense of humor about things, too. A quest to stop a comet and see Blue Beetle prove his valor as a young hero gets side-stepped when his scarab takes them on another planet to save the jelly-like Gibbles from Kanjor Ro.

Kanjor Ro turned up in JUSTICE LEAGUE but was reworked a bit as a space smuggler. Here, the show isn't afraid of his cheese-tastic "Gamma Gong" weapon from the comics. The Gibbles themselves look like squeeky toys. And, yes, Batman's mask has a space-worthy air-mask, his cape becomes a jet-pack, and his tights are space-worthy too. But this is like overthinking how Inspector Gadget possibly had the room for all his gadgets inside his lean body. Both heroes have to rally the Gibbles, escape from another death-trap and Jaime proves his worth and learns a lesson. Bat-tastic.

The animation is pretty damn good and despite the cheese-factor, the action sequences are paced rather well; I have seen episodes of WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN that are far more serious and complicated make action look less fluid and kinetic as this episode did; of course, this is from the same crew behind JLU and LOSH, so they have experience. The voice acting, as always from Andrea Romano's directing, is solid. Diedrich Bader is solid as Batman, managing a balance between making him sound gruff and stoic as Batman should, as well as using that to pull off some of Batman's quips. Yes, Batman has quips here. Will Friedle is of course solid as Jaime/Blue Beetle. James Arnold Taylor, who has had a variety of animation roles but recently plays Harry Osborn in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, makes a fine, Golden Age-ish Green Arrow, before he was known for being a liberal. Marc Warden was Kanjor Ro and puts in your typical villain appearance, with James Marsden as Jaime's pal Paco. And Dee Bradley Baker as Clock King and the King Gibble.

There was actually a twinge of darkness. It was implied and shown that Kanjor Ro outright slaughters the adorable Gibbles when he burns them up for fuel. And Batman outright mentions that the previous Blue Beetle was "killed". It simply is not the tone of the series or even a motif.

It is odd seeing Batman go into space and save aliens, but he HAS done it in the comics. He quite literally has done and fought every kind of threat over his 69, soon to be 70 year history. Criminals, supervillains, vampires, aliens, giant apes, zombies, you name it, he's faced it, either alone or with other heroes. He did go into space, or to other dimensions.

A critic could claim, and with good reason, that this era of Batman was left in the dust for a reason. That without the grim tone and melodrama of avenging his parents, or in fighting for a bleak and corrupt city against both maniacs and the very "system" that both creates them and yet cannot contain them, it isn't Batman; it simply is a child's toy. But if you were a child, cool toys, the Buzz Lightyear's if you will, always got your attention. Like the cartoons most of us loved in our generation (Ninja Turtles, He-Man, Transformers, G.I. Joe, even The Real Ghostbusters) didn't have a million toys. There are some that say that you know you are an adult when you realize it is okay to be a child sometimes. Some writers see Batman's vengeance as key to his characters, and others believe after some 20 years and after raising at least one sidekick, and surviving just about every threat under the sun and inventing about half as many things as Mr. Fantastic, Batman wouldn't always be so dour. "I set out to scare criminals, not children," as Batman says in THE NEW FRONTIER.

BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD is not for everyone. The fact that it is episodic and simple means that it isn't the type of show that I will feel deflated if I miss. But kids should love it; frankly, I have no clue why this isn't on at Saturday morning instead of prime time? I can be as dark and cynical as they come. But I have an inner child somewhere, especially when something acknowledges how absurd it is, which this show does. Always insisting that one can never be light or silly is not maturity; it is adolescence. Ironically, the rest of DC comics, with an endless parade of character destruction, bleakness, and rape, could take a lesson from B:BATB and lighten the hell up sometimes.

This is Batman as schtick superhero. But he's a fun schtick superhero, and even he is aware of his own verbosity. With practically every other angle on Batman done already, this was all that was left unmined since the 80's ended, and Tucker & Co. are at least on their way to doing that era justice. It is an acquired taste, of course. I'm not in the mood for cotton candy every day, but sometimes I am, and sometimes it is good.
 
Wow. Your knowledge overwhelms me, Dread. Seriously, how much free time did you have to familiarize yourself with so many comics, toons, and movies?

Still love to read yer posts, though.
 
Wow. Your knowledge overwhelms me, Dread. Seriously, how much free time did you have to familiarize yourself with so many comics, toons, and movies?

Still love to read yer posts, though.

Thanks. I actually don't have as much free time now, but I used to. ;)
 
Dread your level of knowledge always amazes me. Your post are like journalist reviews and they are fantastic. I one day hope to be as knowledgeable as your are. I live in the Bx BTW wouldnt meeting you to chat it up comics style :D
 
Great post Dread!
I found it:
DKR.jpg
 
That's our Dread. :applaud

Insightfully analytical and thorough, as always. :up:
 
Going into this series I thought we were in for another The Batman type series mixed with the super friends .

Well unlike the series premiere of The Batman in season 1, This series premiere episode I enjoyed a lot sure their was camp in this episode . But it was actually the good kind like in the 60's animated tv series Spider-Man .

Batman is serious not too Dark and brooding like his personality in BTAS . But enough to blend well with the campiness in this series with the other characters . So far Diedrich Bader voicing Batman is prefect for this Silver age version of The Caped Crusader . Especially with narrating (another Spidey trademark) he does it not annoying and it works well with anyone curious to know just how Batman really feels .

The animation is very well done it also nice to have those comic book SPLASH panel montages during the fight scenes . very cool

The guest starring Superheroes
1. Green Arrow
2. Blue Beetle

Not my first choices to have The Dark Knight team up with, But hey it was still cool, I just wished since they went with the current DC comic book look of Jaime Reyes as the Blue Beetle . They'd have done the same for Green Arrow as well . Oh well in the end it doesn't matter .

Guest starring supervillains
1. The Clock King
2. Kanjar Ro

The look of The Clock king sucks plain and simple . Kanjar looked cool and Marc Worden did a good job voicing him . I'm sure he'll be back to get his revenge on Batman & The Blue Beetle .

The nods to the previous series were pretty cool especially the Batman bit about Superman vs. Batman under Ivy's control .

This series is off to a great start... Can't wait for episode 2
 
Dread your level of knowledge always amazes me. Your post are like journalist reviews and they are fantastic. I one day hope to be as knowledgeable as your are. I live in the Bx BTW wouldnt meeting you to chat it up comics style :D

Thanks. Let's say not having much of a social life helps. :p

Great post Dread!
I found it:
DKR.jpg

I actually missed that even though I knew to look for it. That was what I meant about there being nods to the fans.

That's our Dread. :applaud

Insightfully analytical and thorough, as always. :up:

Thanks.

To add, I think what made THE BATMAN a bit awkward was a lot of their episodes were just as goofy, but that show took itself very seriously. It was trying to balance both the darker and lighter Batman and so on. BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD doesn't take itself seriously or try to be more than it is, and I can respect that. I also want to add that Jaime Reyes, as a young hero, made a great POV character for the pilot to get the viewers into this bouncy, new incarnation.

I also think Diedrich Bader is a good Batman; I would argue I preferred him to Jeremy Sisto from JL: THE NEW FRONTIER, although that was a different picture altogether. Have to give Andrea Romano credit for having to cast another Batman when in the eyes of many, the vocal role will seem to always belong to Kevin Conroy (who reprised the role for GOTHAM KNIGHTS, and for 15 years has voiced Batman on TV shows, video games, DTV's, and even a motion picture).

I am interested in how Aquaman will be depicted. Some people complained he was "too much like Namor" in his JUSTICE LEAGUE/JLU incarnations, yet no one wants to the return of the useless Superfriends version. A balance is key, and ironically, it may be easier to do that here than in a more serious show like SUPERMAN: TAS or JLU.
 
THANKS Kal-El!:wow:
 
Sorry DJ, all I get is a one or two-minute clip of what I guess is the opening sequence. No full episode.
 

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