Fantastic Four General News & Discussion Thread (TAG SPOILERS)

[Zarex]

With all due respect, I think it's a little too early to decide if those people's complaints have merit or not. As for being comic book accurate, the comic book industry itself has been accused of putting woke politics ahead of good stories for several years now. So there's a big difference between being true to Lee/Kirby's original stories (for example), and being comic book accurate to a story from the last couple of years.

I almost feel like I don't care what they do to the rest of the MCU, just leave the woke politics out of my Fantastic Four, please. That would be a little disingenuous though, because I've enjoyed the MCU up until now. Not really feeling a refocusing on a wave of legacy heroes though, if that's what the plan is.

This is at least the second time you have clutched your pearls regarding the threat of woke politics and it still doesn't make a lick of sense. The folks complaining about woke politics in comics are Comicsgate supporting garbage humans who simply can't deal with Marvel attempting to grow their market beyond white males. And being true to Lee/Kirby's original stories means Johnny having a native american college roommate, the team battling a white supremacist and teaming up with the first main stream black superhero. If the MCU FF reboot fails it's not going to be because of awful people whining about woke politics.

 

[Fluedd]

And being true to Lee/Kirby's original stories means Johnny having a native american college roommate, the team battling a white supremacist and teaming up with the first main stream black superhero.

Exactly, there's no reason to cram artificial identity politics into it, there was diversity in there already. Now the "quotas" may not look the same, because the demographics in the '60s were not the same as they are now.

You are right, I am not a fan of identity politics, ( find them divisive and repulsive. I ascribe to the MLK "color blind" society as opposed to the new trend of defining people by skin color. I don't have current objections about the MCU material I have seen so far, but that doesn't mean there won't be in the future. There have been stories about Fiege wanting to push a woke agenda however, we will have to see if and how it transpires.

 

[Zarex]

Identity politics, quotas, woke agenda and a complete misinterpretation of Dr. King. If you had only included "snowflake" you would have gotten alt-right Bingo!

 

[Fluedd]

Identity politics, quotas, woke agenda and a complete misinterpretation of Dr. King.

Excuse me, did Dr. King espouse judging people by the color of his skin or not? I say he did not. That is not a misinterpretation. Besides, identity politics does not take its lineage from Dr. King, it takes it from the more militant Black Panthers of the '60s and the organizations that had multiple riots two summers ago.

 

[Crimz]

With all due respect, I think it's a little too early to decide if those people's complaints have merit or not. As for being comic book accurate, the comic book industry itself has been accused of putting woke politics ahead of good stories for several years now. So there's a big difference between being true to Lee/Kirby's original stories (for example), and being comic book accurate to a story from the last couple of years.

I almost feel like I don't care what they do to the rest of the MCU, just leave the woke politics out of my Fantastic Four, please. That would be a little disingenuous though, because I've enjoyed the MCU up until now. Not really feeling a refocusing on a wave of legacy heroes though, if that's what the plan is.

Then they're complaints are even more ridiculous. If it's too early to decide whether their complaints have merit then it's way too early to complain about something that hasn't even happened.

I'm going to be real, Lee/Kirby's run was over 50 years ago. Most of the development the Fantastic Four have had has come after. So this "be true to their vison" thing has never resonated with me. You don't need to be beholden to their vision of the FF because the FF have grown beyond it in many ways.

This doesn't mean disregard what they did, just that Marvel doesn't have to be shackled by it. There will be changes and that's fine because the Fantastic Four are all about changing and evolving. That can be from changing the race of some members to better represent current society or playing around with the roles and having Sue lead instead of Reed. Neither of those things would negatively effect the team or film.

 

[Zarex]

Excuse me, did Dr. King espouse judging people by the color of his skin or not? I say he did not. That is not a misinterpretation. Besides, identity politics does not take its lineage from Dr. King, it takes it from the more militant Black Panthers of the '60s and the organizations that had multiple riots two summers ago.

The people who are outraged about mostly peaceful BLM protests are the exact same types who were aghast over Dr. King's mostly peaceful protests back in the 60s. The exact same awful people. And King's dream was for a fair and just society that included quotas and other remedies for historic injustices. Alt rights and other such folks interpret this as colorblind society due to ignorance.

Heres hoping the MCU FF reboot is awash in identity politics and a woke agenda.

 

[Detective Conan]

Then they're complaints are even more ridiculous. If it's too early to decide whether their complaints have merit then it's way too early to complain about something that hasn't even happened.

I'm going to be real, Lee/Kirby's run was over 50 years ago. Most of the development the Fantastic Four have had has come after. So this "be true to their vison" thing has never resonated with me. You don't need to be beholden to their vision of the FF because the FF have grown beyond it in many ways.

This doesn't mean disregard what they did, just that Marvel doesn't have to be shackled by it. There will be changes and that's fine because the Fantastic Four are all about changing and evolving. That can be from changing the race of some members to better represent current society or playing around with the roles and having Sue lead instead of Reed. Neither of those things would negatively effect the team or film.

Being true to Stan and Jack’s vision doesn’t mean making the F4 all straight pasty white people. Keeping true to the original spirit just means understanding the F4 are about family and families don’t always get along, sometimes they fight or bicker with each other as well understanding these are people with different personalities that you can bounce off of. Ben’s is the gruff tough guy with a sweet side he doesn’t show much, Johnny is the excited, hot head, laidback fun-loving dude, Reed is the man of science that’s sometimes too buried in his work, Sue is a the caring, warm loving person who holds the team together through thick and thin. If anyone understand this, than they absolutely will have honored the core of Stan and Jack’s vision.

 

[Fluedd]

The people who are outraged about mostly peaceful BLM protests are the exact same types who were aghast over Dr. King's mostly peaceful protests back in the 60s. The exact same awful people. And King's dream was for a fair and just society that included quotas and other remedies for historic injustices. Alt rights and other such folks interpret this as colorblind society due to ignorance.

Heres hoping the MCU FF reboot is awash in identity politics and a woke agenda.

I'm going to just agree to disagree here. There's a lot to unpack here, and I think you are wrong on almost everything you're saying. But if we start getting into it, it's going to be a completely political discussion, and I doubt that's what this forum wants. Politics ruins everything, including super hero movies, and sometimes forums.

 

[Detective Conan]

I'm going to just agree to disagree here. There's a lot to unpack here, and I think you are wrong on almost everything you're saying. But if we start getting into it, it's going to be a completely political discussion, and I doubt that's what this forum wants. Politics ruins everything, including super hero movies, and sometimes forums.

Kind of ironic you say that since a lot of my favorite superhero comics and movies tend to be quite political:

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

playing around with the roles and having Sue lead instead of Reed. Neither of those things would negatively effect the team or film.

I don’t see why they even need a “leader”. Even in the comics, it seemed more of an honorary title than anything meaningful. The other members listen to him… just as long as they feel like it.

I wouldn’t name any “leader”. Reed is the scientist, so when it comes to matters of science, he’ll take the lead.

In matters of finances, PR, questions of morality etc., Sue can take the lead.

But Reed and Sue are the “parents” of the team, so I think Reed and Sue should generally be leading with Ben and Johnny being Ben and Johnny.

 

[Fluedd]

Kind of ironic you say that since a lot of my favorite superhero comics and movies tend to be quite political

The Hate Monger might technically be political, but there aren't many people who are going to support Hitler. Nothing controversial there, or anything that most people are going to disagree about. Unlike the current deeply divided state of the country.

I don’t see why they even need a “leader”.

In the FF, Reed is a brilliant mind on a scale that rarely comes along (although maybe not quite so rare in the comics). There was one issue I remember where it was stated the other members go along with Reed to help him achieve his goals. Because his goals could do so much to advance humanity. It's a once in a lifetime type of opportunity. If Reed is portrayed as anything than that, especially for the sake of pumping up the intellects of the others, it's a failure of the adaptation IMO.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In the FF, Reed is a brilliant mind on a scale that rarely comes along (although maybe not quite so rare in the comics). There was one issue I remember where it was stated the other members go along with Reed to help him achieve his goals. Because his goals could do so much to advance humanity. It's a once in a lifetime type of opportunity. If Reed is portrayed as anything than that, especially for the sake of pumping up the intellects of the others, it's a failure of the adaptation IMO.

As I said, Reed would be the leader on matters of science because he’s the scientist.

But there’s no reason to give him a title. He simply says “here’s what I want to do” and the others help him.

And if, for example, half of Manhattan gets blown up because of something the FF were involved in, I don’t see any reason Sue can’t step in and handle that because she would be more skilled at that than Reed.

And she shouldn’t need to ask his permission or clear things with him. She should just do what she knows is right.

Reed doesn’t have any real authority. If the others don’t want to go along with him, they won’t.

That’s the way it was in the comics, and that’s the way it should be in the film.

 

[Fluedd]

Reed doesn’t have any real authority. If the others don’t want to go along with him, they won’t.

Reed is the leader, but it's a weak leadership. I don't care if they call him the leader or not. Sue is the most powerful, she's beaten the Hulk. The Thing has only managed that once, I think, in many years of trying. As you say, Reed has no real authority. They are a squabbling family at times, so yeah they're not always going to go along wiith him.

What I don't like is the Trask/Ultiimates version where they were all supposedly brilliant scientists (except Ben), Even worse, they made them all teenagers, which screws up the family dynnamic IMO. They don't have to all be brilliant to have worth. And all teenagers sounds like the X-Men. Nothing wrong with the X-Men, but we already have the X-Men. I'd rather see them be the Fantastic Four.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You kids sound as optimistic as I was in the early 90’s when Fangoria was telling me a cool Fantastic Four movie was just around the corner.

You’ll learn.

but in this case it isnt some magazine it is the head of Marvel Studios...we will see. hope to say i told you so

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

but in this case it isnt some magazine it is the head of Marvel Studios...we will see. hope to say i told you so

The head of Marvel Studios told us we’d get an Inhuman’s movie.

… just saying…

 

[Gamma Goliath]

But that was before he was actually the guy in charge. He has fewer people to answer to and its been for the better. And when inhumans wasn't his his hands it turned out to be a complete disaster even for modern superhero TV standards.

 

[Fluedd]

And when inhumans wasn't his his hands it turned out to be a complete disaster even for modern superhero TV standards.

Too bad, because Inhumans were a big part of Fantastic Four history. They might have made good characters in an FF movie. Of course, at the time they were looking to replace their mutants with Inhumans because they didn't own the X-Men rights.

 

[Stark Bauer]

That can be from changing the race of some members to better represent current society or playing around with the roles and having Sue lead instead of Reed. Neither of those things would negatively effect the team or film.

i respectfully disagree. That would be like making Jean Grey the leader of the X-Men instead of Cyclops. It simply doesn't work. You need a level-headed, emotionally stable leader. That doesn't mean Sue is incompetent, it means Reed is better suited as leader. Sue keeps him in check too and can be the voice of reason. But she cannot and should not be the leader unless Reed is incapacitated.

 

[Stark Bauer]

I don’t see why they even need a “leader”. Even in the comics, it seemed more of an honorary title than anything meaningful. The other members listen to him… just as long as they feel like it.

I wouldn’t name any “leader”. Reed is the scientist, so when it comes to matters of science, he’ll take the lead.

In matters of finances, PR, questions of morality etc., Sue can take the lead.

But Reed and Sue are the “parents” of the team, so I think Reed and Sue should generally be leading with Ben and Johnny being Ben and Johnny.

disregard my previous answer. Willie nailed it.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Too bad, because Inhumans were a big part of Fantastic Four history. They might have made good characters in an FF movie. Of course, at the time they were looking to replace their mutants with Inhumans because they didn't own the X-Men rights.

i honestly think Feige's version of The Inhumans would do better than The Eternals - they are much more marketable if executed right and can be similar to Guardians of The Galaxy.

 

[Silvermoth]

Inhumans is a hard sell these days. They’re a bit eugenic. Maybe as a supporting team but I just can’t see them with their own property for a while

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I think they made the right move in the comics by eliminating 90% of the inhuman population, and just leaving the royal family and a few others.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

 

[Detective Conan]

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if John Krasinski was in F4 but he actually plays a villain instead of Mr. Fantastic?