The Curious Case of Spider-Man & Hulk Rights (Or Keep Hope Alive That the Rights Will Revert)

[Venom 1988]

It seems to me that the distribution rights that Universal has on Hulk has an expiration date of 15 years + 3 pay TV windows.

Maybe dumb but what does 3 pay TV windows mean?

 

[ADollarADay]

Maybe dumb but what does 3 pay TV windows mean?

I will preface this by saying I'm not a lawyer and there's a very good possibility that I am wrong.

I got asked this in another forum I posted this in. I'm not an expert in any of this, but Pay TV window is the window that distributors sign with cable TV for distribution of the product.

A quick google search

Attention, Filmmakers: Here’s Everything You Need to Know About Release Windows

I think the contract is alluding to Pay TV window

SUBSCRIPTION VOD/1st PAY TV WINDOW


Subscription VOD (SVOD) is a service that allows its subscribers the opportunity to view what is available within the provider’s library. The subscriber pays a monthly fee for access.


Subscription VOD (SVOD) providers include: Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu Plus and a number of others with the most notable addition in 2015 being HBO (FYI, reports state that this will happen in April, I’m guessing just in time for “Game of Thrones” season 5!)


The Subscription VOD (SVOD) service provider will offer a license fee to the underlying producer and/or licensor of the film, in order to make it available to their subscribers. This is how the film earns money within the subscription VOD window as there is no transaction to the viewer.


Pay TV channels e.g.: HBO, Showtime, Starz all fall within this window too & like Subscription VOD (SVOD) service providers will offer a license fee to the underlying producer and/or licensor of the film, in order to make it available to their subscribers.


Length of window: Will vary based on various deal terms


License fee paid: Will vary based on numerous factors, including exclusivity, cast, length of the deal, etc.


Note: Keep in mind that exclusivity within this window should equate to more money for the license fee and if the offer requires exclusivity, then be sure you have someone determining if the deal is a good one by comparing to other offers, a combination of non-exclusive deals, etc.


READ MORE: Here Are All the VOD Numbers We Have So Far


2nd PAY TV WINDOW


A Pay TV channel e.g.: HBO, Showtimes, Starz, etc that did not run the film within the 1st Pay TV window may be interested in licensing the film for the 2nd Pay TV window. Or, the same channel could be interested in renewing their license, possibly at a lesser license fee, for the 2nd Pay TV window.


Length of window: Will vary based on various deal terms


License fee paid: Will vary based on numerous factors, including exclusivity, cast, length of the deal, etc.

So each window varies in term. For example Netflix had a 1st window of 18 months exclusivity to Disney movies released between 2016 - 2019 after theatrical run and VOD. They will then have a 2nd window in a few years (Disney execs have mentioned this that some of the movies on Disney+ now to go to Netflix before they come back for good). Sometimes they have a 3rd window that follows the same pattern. A window may be anywhere from a day to years, depending on the contract. Sometimes it's short, The Wolverine left for like a month before it got put back on Disney+.

Anyways the Distribution Terms excerpt in the contract also says:

" if such third window has not been completed as of the expiration of the Initial Distribution Term provided that each U.S. Pay Television Exhibition window shall be no longer than five (5) years; subject to extension with respect to all rights other than U.S. Pay Television for an additional two (2) years from the end of the Initial Distribution Term if at the end of the Initial Distribution Term Paramount has not recouped its Distribution Costs and Expenses with respect to such Picture (the “Distribution Term”). "

Which to me implies that if the distributor has not recouped all of its money back by the end of the Initial Distribution term then they get a two year extension. We don't know TIH pay tv window contracts, so impossible to say. I think the expiration would be 2023 or at the latest 2025.

And again I may be wrong on that, probably am. Someone smarter than me can look at those things and tell us for sure. My guess is just by looking at the Paramount contract that Marvel said is pretty much the same for Universal. Worth noting that Universal will still keep the distribution rights to previous work (i.e. TIH, Ang Lee's Hulk, and so on) unless Disney actually pays up for those. This is just for future movies.

 

[Venom 1988]

I will preface this by saying I'm not a lawyer and there's a very good possibility that I am wrong.

No worries. I appreciate all the info. It's really interesting to read.

 

[ADollarADay]

No worries. I appreciate all the info. It's really interesting to read.

Cool. As long as you don't take what I say as gospel I am leaning towards 2023 being the return date.

Here is another view on the Pay window that I think explains it better, from Disney's own 10K:

Document

Pay Television (Pay 1) — In the U.S., there are two or three pay television windows. The first window is generally eighteen months in duration and follows the VOD window. The Company has licensed exclusive domestic pay television rights to Netflix for all films released theatrically during calendar years 2016 through 2018, with the exception of DreamWorks films. DreamWorks titles that are distributed by the Company are licensed to Showtime under a separate agreement.

Free Television (Free 1) — The Pay 1 window is followed by a television window that may last up to 84 months. Motion pictures are usually sold in the Free 1 window to basic cable networks.

Pay Television 2 (Pay 2) and Free Television 2 (Free 2) — In the U.S., Free 1 is generally followed by a twelve to nineteen-month Pay 2 window under our license arrangements with Netflix, Starz and Showtime. The Pay 2 window is followed by a Free 2 window generally for up to 84 months, whereby films are licensed to basic cable networks, SVOD services and to television station groups.

Pay Television 3 (Pay 3) and Free Television 3 (Free 3) — In the U.S., Free 2 is sometimes followed by a seven-month Pay 3 window, and then by a Free 3 window, which can have license periods of various lengths. In the Free 3 window, films are licensed to basic cable networks, SVOD services and to television station groups.

This also shows us when some of those 2016-2018 Disney movies will go back to Netflix (i.e. 84 months after they left Netflix's Pay 1. They'll then be on Netflix for 12 to 19 months and returned for good since there's no mention of the movies going back for a Pay 3 window.

 

[Darkprime]

Holland seems to be implying that the deal may have been extended already. Past what's
already been publicly announced.

“The way I understand it is that agreement between the two studios has already happened. I don’t think that they’re going to run into the same troubles that they did as we were going into… was it ‘Spider-Man 2’? ‘Far from Home’ had come out and then the whole thing happened between Sony and Marvel. I think the two studios have worked that out, and I don’t think that that will be a problem in the future. That said, I’m just the actor and I was a part of a few phone calls during that process, but I think they love working with each other, I think they found a way in which it can be beneficial for both studios, and I’m just kind of like a kid in the middle of it, between two parents during an argument (laughs).”

Tom Holland Says ‘Spider-Man 3’ Completes His Current Contract, But “If They Want Me Back, I’ll Be There in a Heartbeat”

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

If Tom actually gets to develop along the lines of the Spidey I grew up with (College, Bugle job, marriage, teacher... AND NOTHING HAPPENED AFTER. ) I might be able to die happy.

 

[Detective Conan]

Exclusive: Sony/Marvel Split Spider-Man Into Two Separate Franchises - That Hashtag Show

Take it with a grain of salt for now but if true - interesting,

 

[TheVileOne]

Exclusive: Sony/Marvel Split Spider-Man Into Two Separate Franchises - That Hashtag Show

Take it with a grain of salt for now but if true - interesting,

Yeah, not buying it for now. That Hashtag Show doesn't have the best track record either.

 

[ernesth100]

Exclusive: Sony/Marvel Split Spider-Man Into Two Separate Franchises - That Hashtag Show

Take it with a grain of salt for now but if true - interesting,

This makes the most sense honestly.

Same for the Universal keeping distribution rights to their Hulk films. Like keep that ****, we don't need it anymore.

But for Spidey's case it's clear Sony doesn't need him anymore. They can have their Venom-Verse and make a different Venom symbiote for Spidey whenever they get to that plotline. And with Spideys rogue gallery they don't need to do Venom...well ever if they really wanted.

 

[MbJ]

 

[Zarex]

After the Netflix deal was announced I figured that Sony and the Mouse would be soon hammering out the terms of their eventual breakup. This is promising news for the folks that enjoy MCU Spidey.

 

[Darkprime]

Shame its for the US only at the moment. So basically if they made any Spider-Man shows for Disney+ it would be on Disney+ for the US only and on Netflix in other regions?

 

[ironwez20]

Apparently Sony will have little say on Spider-Man moving forward according to a guy name admin on YouTube. This pertains to avi

 

[Spider-Fan]

I will believe it when I see it. I don't take YT channels as gospel.

 

[ironwez20]

True. But I’ve been rushing for him to be out for awhile but we will see

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Seen this on reddit wonder what the implications could be...

 

[Dark Raven]

Don't think it means anything other than that the film will be available on Disney +. No reason it shouldn't be, since it's already something in the past, and they're not distributing it in theatres, so nothing for Universal to get involved in.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It just means they must have reached some kind of deal with Universal to put it on Disney+. Nothing deeper IMO

 

[The Infernal]

Would the Hulk deal even cover streaming rights given it was made so far back?

 

[WereCoyote]

Would the Hulk deal even cover streaming rights given it was made so far back?

Not unless they treat streaming services the way they did movie channels like TMC, HBO, and Starz etc.

 

[WereCoyote]

I saw a post on Facebook in one of the Comic Groups that Marvel had a Hulk solo film in active development and got all excited. I was immediately let down when the source was We Got this Covered.com Way to get my hopes up just to send them crashing Facebook. How about we fact check crap like this instead of worrying about politicians.

 

[Iceman]

That’s cool for completion’s sake, and I wouldn’t mind watching it again.

 

[Spidey_62]

I hope that means they bring over Ang Lee's Hulk to Disney Plus too! That's gonna be looking pretty comprehensive over there soon adding in Sony movies along with the other old Fox movies that keep cropping up.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I hope a Hulk sequel happens at some point, but I am not holding my breath