The Superhero Cinematic Civil War

[MagnarTheGreat]

That’s just many more months for Kravementum to kick in. ‘You will krave the Kraven!’ ‘Not enough Kraven will make you go krazy!’ ‘Hunt down to your local theater for Kraven or be hunted!’ The marketing writes itself with this one, folks.

 

[Drizzle]

The dirty secret of Les Miserables is that Crowe is actually very good despite being ****ed over by the ill-judged live singing concept and its Sacha Baron Cohen who gives the embarrassing performance. I love that movie and think Hooper's direction (again, barring the deeply vocally unsafe and counter intuitive live singing even though that had some merit in the end) is wonderfully lowkey and intimate but Cohen makes me cringe so hard every time.

Crowe's singing isn't the best but he's 100% applying himself and giving a very genuine performance. Cohen is just coasting like a D-Bag.

Yeah, I didn't even mind Crowe's singing in it much. He still gave a good performance in it regardless.

 

[Lily Adler]

Yeah, I didn't even mind Crowe's singing in it much. He still gave a good performance in it regardless.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That’s just many more months for Kravementum to kick in. ‘You will krave the Kraven!’ ‘Not enough Kraven will make you go krazy!’ ‘Hunt down to your local theater for Kraven or be hunted!’ The marketing writes itself with this one, folks.

Or my personal favorite "Please buy a ticket! All of our other IPs are underperforming and Spider-Man is all we have! Please help us!!!"

 

[Drunken Rider]

Or my personal favorite "Please buy a ticket! All of our other IPs are underperforming and Spider-Man is all we have! Please help us!!!"

Quote for truth of the year.

 

[kguillou]

Random question: where in the heck is this Batman Caped Crusader cartoon at?! I feel like this has been worked on forEVER and we’ve seen barely anything from it.

 

[DA_Champion]

What can Sony do to recover as a film studio?

 

[DA_Champion]

So a few years ago, when Disney was buying Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel, and Fox, I was among the short sighted people that said "oh my Disney is invincible now!"

That hasn't worked out. They picked up some strength for sure but they're not invincible.

They still need to make good movies, and it may be harder for larger bureaucracies to produce good art, as Iger, etc are more interesting in social climbing than producing good art. Owning those properties provide head starts, but not finishing lines.

But also competition has merged -- from Netflix, Amazon, and Apple. I love Netflix. And I'm told Apple has made many good shows that I will look into eventually. Amazon has been less impressive (in my opinion) but they might turn it around eventually.

And in a few years I expect to see more international competition. Right now there's a bit of good stuff from South Korea, Europe, and Japan that penetrates the US market. I expect that to grow a lot as the US weakens. First Hollywood will lose its share of international receipts, and then its share of domestic receipts will stop below 99%.

A valuable life lesson overall. I think that this is one of those examples of capitalism working well.

 

[Batgirl0202]

Finally got around to my Black Panther: Wakanda Forever re-watch...

I absolutely adore this movie. It just gets better and better each time I see it. I love how it functions as both a loving, respectful tribute to Chadwick, as well as a stellar example of a CBM done right, with all the action, set pieces, politics, and melodrama fans could possibly want.

It's also a shame that Letitia and Tenoch turned out to be so problematic in real life. I really enjoyed them both as Shuri and Namor respectively...

And that concludes my re-watch of all the MCU Phase Four films. Having seen them all again now, I'd rank them as follows:

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Eternals
Black Widow
Thor: Love and Thunder

I'll take a break from the MCU and then tackle a re-watch of the Phase Five films. I've only seen Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania once but I remember kinda sorta liking it. We'll see how it holds up upon a re-watch

 

[kguillou]

I liked Wakanda Forever but the tone is so sad and melancholic (for obvious reasons) that I struggle to want to revisit it. I cant help but keep wondering what kind of movie it would have been with Chadwick still with us. It probably legit would have been Winter Soldier level good.

 

[DA_Champion]

I liked Wakanda Forever but the tone is so sad and melancholic (for obvious reasons) that I struggle to want to revisit it. I cant help but keep wondering what kind of movie it would have been with Chadwick still with us. It probably legit would have been Winter Soldier level good.

I really dug the world building of the central American sea people.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I liked Wakanda Forever but the tone is so sad and melancholic (for obvious reasons) that I struggle to want to revisit it. I cant help but keep wondering what kind of movie it would have been with Chadwick still with us. It probably legit would have been Winter Soldier level good.

It's not a fun movie to rewatch, I agree. I get what they were trying to do, and I think it succeeds at it, but much like Logan it's not going to be the first movie I want to watch when I am bored. Some movies are like that. It ain't like man, kids are in bed and I want to sit back and relax. Hey, Schinlder's List is on! Perfect! And that's a movie I consider a masterpiece. Not every movie needs to be popcorn fun, obviously. But it does mean I won't watch WF as many times as maybe some MCU films I don't think are as good but I can just watch before going to bed or something

 

[flickchick85]

Wakanda Forever was bloated as hell and just not very enjoyable to me. I appreciated the tribute to Chadwick, but the rest of it is just not worth revisiting for me. And I will forever lament the choice to pass the mantle to Shuri. Nakia was right there. Killed my interest in seeing any more of that world, I'm afraid.

 

[kguillou]

Agreed with @flickchick85 . Nakia was right there and perfect choice for Black Panther. Shuri should have remained the fun, affable tech support that she was in the first BP and Infinity War. I really don't like how her character evolved. Yes, I GET it, with her brother gone, there was going to be a darker turn naturally but Shuri just does not work as Black Panther imo.

 

[The Batman]

WF does an admirable when it pays tribute to Chadwick, and Angela Bassett had a very effective performance, but overall, WF doesn't have much to go back to for me. The Ironheart stuff feels jammed in, that Ross/Valentina subplot is boring, and overall, it very much feels like the typical MCU second film, where it's more forgettable compared to the first.

Oh, and I find it super baffling how some people really think T'Challa Jr. is a suitable substitute for the original.

 

[Iceman]

Finally got around to my Black Panther: Wakanda Forever re-watch...

I absolutely adore this movie. It just gets better and better each time I see it. I love how it functions as both a loving, respectful tribute to Chadwick, as well as a stellar example of a CBM done right, with all the action, set pieces, politics, and melodrama fans could possibly want.

It's also a shame that Letitia and Tenoch turned out to be so problematic in real life. I really enjoyed them both as Shuri and Namor respectively...

And that concludes my re-watch of all the MCU Phase Four films. Having seen them all again now, I'd rank them as follows:

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Eternals
Black Widow
Thor: Love and Thunder

I'll take a break from the MCU and then tackle a re-watch of the Phase Five films. I've only seen Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania once but I remember kinda sorta liking it. We'll see how it holds up upon a re-watch

You're getting through them! Shame about the likes of Majors, Huerta, Wright etc tarnishing things. I'll have to rewatch Wakanda Forever, haven't seen it for a long time. I've got more tolerance for Phase 4 than most it seems and there aren’t any films in there I can’t stand or get some value out of.

 

[Lily Adler]

I swear Phase 4 had the worst luck casting wise.

 

[Lily Adler]

I forgot how terrible the movie version is. How do you **** up that song, Sascha!

 

[DA_Champion]

Who would win in a war, the Talokanil or the Atlanteans?

;-)

 

[DA_Champion]

Wakanda Forever was bloated as hell and just not very enjoyable to me. I appreciated the tribute to Chadwick, but the rest of it is just not worth revisiting for me. And I will forever lament the choice to pass the mantle to Shuri. Nakia was right there. Killed my interest in seeing any more of that world, I'm afraid.

Agreed on Nakia vs Shuri. I think that Nakia is underutilized.

Any words on the plan for BP3?

 

[Ninjablade]

The way the Atlanteans are portrayed still doesn't sit right with me. The unintentional racism just feels icky and disappointing. Compounding that with what I felt was just more crap MCU sludge narratively, I can't find myself ever revisiting Wakanda Forever.

 

[Drizzle]

Wakanda Forever was bloated as hell and just not very enjoyable to me. I appreciated the tribute to Chadwick, but the rest of it is just not worth revisiting for me. And I will forever lament the choice to pass the mantle to Shuri. Nakia was right there. Killed my interest in seeing any more of that world, I'm afraid.

Agreed with @flickchick85 . Nakia was right there and perfect choice for Black Panther. Shuri should have remained the fun, affable tech support that she was in the first BP and Infinity War. I really don't like how her character evolved. Yes, I GET it, with her brother gone, there was going to be a darker turn naturally but Shuri just does not work as Black Panther imo.

Personally I would have preferred Okoye to become the new Black Panther over anyone else since apart from her combat skills she was just as much of a breakout character as Shuri, if not even more so. But even taking Letitia Wright's off screen antics out of it, from a canon perspective it wouldn't have made sense for anyone but Shuri to take up the mantle after T'Challa's death due to her being the only remaining member of the Wakandan royal family who was capable. At least until T'Challa's son is old enough.

 

[Bayne]

Personally I would have preferred Okoye to become the new Black Panther over anyone else since apart from her combat skills she was just as much of a breakout character as Shuri, if not even more so. But even taking Letitia Wright's off screen antics out of it, from a canon perspective it wouldn't have made sense for anyone but Shuri to take up the mantle after T'Challa's death due to her being the only remaining member of the Wakandan royal family who was capable. At least until T'Challa's son is old enough.

I like WF even better than the first BP, but the idea that it had to be Shuri logically doesn't really hold up.

Nakia was the mother of T'Challa's child. If that had been open instead of secret, that makes her part of the royal family, too. Certainly close enough for a movie series where the exact rules of inheritance were never specified in the first place. And since they were already willing to add a surprise child into the mix, there's no reason they couldn't have added a surprise marriage, as well, and said she was already married to T'Challa. Could've even had their relationship already out in the open at the start of the movie.

Plus, nothing in the movies ever even says the Black Panther must be part of the royal family in the first place. M'Baku had just as much legal right to challenge as anyone in the royal family. And nobody ever said he was the only one outside the royal family who had that right, so they could've retconned that to anyone they wanted in the end.

Which is without even getting into the fact that everything we really know is about how the challenge for King works, but we already know the king can let someone else be Black Panther if they wish. So it could've been just as simple as Shuri becomes queen and appoints Nakia or Okoye Black Panther.

 

[Drizzle]

I like WF even better than the first BP, but the idea that it had to be Shuri logically doesn't really hold up.

Nakia was the mother of T'Challa's child. If that had been open instead of secret, that makes her part of the royal family, too. Certainly close enough for a movie series where the exact rules of inheritance were never specified in the first place. And since they were already willing to add a surprise child into the mix, there's no reason they couldn't have added a surprise marriage, as well, and said she was already married to T'Challa. Could've even had their relationship already out in the open at the start of the movie.

Plus, nothing in the movies ever even says the Black Panther must be part of the royal family in the first place. M'Baku had just as much legal right to challenge as anyone in the royal family. And nobody ever said he was the only one outside the royal family who had that right, so they could've retconned that to anyone they wanted in the end.

Which is without even getting into the fact that everything we really know is about how the challenge for King works, but we already know the king can let someone else be Black Panther if they wish. So it could've been just as simple as Shuri becomes queen and appoints Nakia or Okoye Black Panther.

I suppose, but there was still no challenge to the throne or title of Black Panther presented from the time T'Challa died until Shuri became the new BP. Either way I wouldn't have expected them to deviate from the comics much anyway by making anyone else but Shuri the new Black Panther.

 

[Iceman]

Personally I would have preferred Okoye to become the new Black Panther over anyone else since apart from her combat skills she was just as much of a breakout character as Shuri, if not even more so. But even taking Letitia Wright's off screen antics out of it, from a canon perspective it wouldn't have made sense for anyone but Shuri to take up the mantle after T'Challa's death due to her being the only remaining member of the Wakandan royal family who was capable. At least until T'Challa's son is old enough.

Okoye would be a downright scary Panther! I wanted to see Nakia have a more prominent role but Okoye would likely be closest in intensity to T'Challa.