X-Men - Part 6

[psylockolussus]

God... I still get irritated when I think of that generation. Even more so than my favorite era: Generation X. Because there was just SO much wasted potential that was so quickly discarded. Generation X has a staying alive problem... but the New X-Men (while also having a staying alive problem) is widely just ignored.

I never read Generation X, but a lot of Generation X members are now X-Men. I like M but I'm really surprised she's still around because you know writers have a habit of keeping the more classic characters and ditching the ones that just joined the team. Then Emma Frost of course. I felt like Jubilee had a decent exposure from Curse of the Mutants up to the all female X-title. While Banshee will always remain a classic member of the X-Men. Chamber/Husk were just kinda there but its not really that bad. The only ones that I'm not really familar with are Skin (who was killed in Uncanny), Gaia and Skin.

 

[psylockolussus]

I agree that that generation was pointless. Nowadays I'm glad we have Eva Bell (who needs to come back) and Genesis, but the rest of those kids were pointless. I'll add the Generation Hope era students as well. Some of them were okay, but overall that was a time that would have been best spent building up the New X-Men kids.

But I actually include Pixie in with those New X-Men students who needed the focus. She became part of that core group prior to Messiah Complex the same time Anole did. I was glad she got the focus, and I would like her to return as well. I never really did care about Armor. I wouldn't' mind her as a Wolverine sidekick though. She could have been that generation's Kitty Pryde or Jubilee. But her sidekick potential disappeared after Whedon's Astonishing X-Men.

Besides Triage/Genesis, a lot of mutants from that generation aren't really around anymore. I kinda like that Anole is in Extraodinary right now. Then the 5 lights, Oya is really out of place in the All-New X-Men while the rest didn't have a big expression on me (though I ddn't read Generation Hope). Pixie joining the X-Men was just random to me though during that time a lot of mutants were just becoming X-Men (remember Ariel?) and it was just too much for me. I liked Armor in Astonishing, though its weird outside of that, she didn't really do anything. One day, if they will open a school again, like they need to have a core group of students (without introducing new ones) that they need to focus that will eventually end up as X-Men.

 

[Havok83]

They only needed to focus on Surge, Mercury, Elixir, Dust, Rockslide, Anole and Hellion along with Omega Kid and the Cuckoos. The rest like Prodigy, Bling, Loa, Trance, No-Girl, Blindfold can remain as third-tier characters. Though I did like when the other X-books gave those characters something to do. But then Avx came, and we got Goldballs, Eva Bell, Triage, Genesis, Sprite and I just felt like they could have used some of the X-books to develop the New X-Men more. Like at least one of them other than X-23, should have been a proper member of the X-Men now. Even Pixie and Armor got to join the main X-Men.

You forgot about Generation Hope. Instead of doing something with the core group they had, they kept introducing new groups of kids and it got beyond frustrating.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I never read Generation X, but a lot of Generation X members are now X-Men. I like M but I'm really surprised she's still around because you know writers have a habit of keeping the more classic characters and ditching the ones that just joined the team. Then Emma Frost of course. I felt like Jubilee had a decent exposure from Curse of the Mutants up to the all female X-title. While Banshee will always remain a classic member of the X-Men. Chamber/Husk were just kinda there but its not really that bad. The only ones that I'm not really familar with are Skin (who was killed in Uncanny), Gaia and Skin.

If for no other reason than to just get the exposure, I'd recommend reading Generation X 1-17 or so. Those were some fine comics. I'd also recommend reading the X-Men and Uncanny X-Men parts of Phalanx Covenant and Uncanny X-Men 318 as a lead-in to Generation X.

The Generation X members who became X-Men typically only served in small spurts as 3rd or even 4th string, Emma being the exception ( ).

Chamber was the first "graduation" but he only lasted about 13 issues (Casey's run). Then he was shuffled off to Weapon X and became irrelevant to the core X-Men book. He'd show up here and there but ultimately he's fodder and only slightly more important than Maggott.

Jubilee and Husk showed up in Austen's Uncanny X-Men run. Jubilee wasn't really much of a factor there being barely more than background, and though Husk did have a decent run as an X-Man in that run, she was quickly ditched once it was finished. Since then she had a blah run in Wolverine & the X-Men and was ditched. Jubilee got a little exposure during the vampire storyline, I'll give her that.

As far as core X-Men goes, that's about it.

M (who I was shocked to see amount to anything) became relevant thanks to Peter David's X-Factor and is now a core X-Man. I love that, but I do find it funny that during Generation X she and Emma were my least favorite characters and they're the ones who have fared the best.

Banshee, Synch, and Skin all died. Artie, Leech, Gaia, and Maggott vanished from the X-Men world.

 

[psylockolussus]

@Havok83, I was gonna mention them because I don't know in which generation they belong to but JewishHobbit already mentioned them before I got to in another post.

Jubilee and Husk showed up in Austen's Uncanny X-Men run. Jubilee wasn't really much of a factor there being barely more than background, and though Husk did have a decent run as an X-Man in that run, she was quickly ditched once it was finished. Since then she had a blah run in Wolverine & the X-Men and was ditched. Jubilee got a little exposure during the vampire storyline, I'll give her that.

She was very active in the all female book. She was there for the entire run. She had that baby and even had a role in Battle of the Atom, so it was good for her especially compare when she left the X-Men for Gen X and the 2000s.

Artie, Leech, Gaia, and Maggott vanished from the X-Men world.

Are the first three really relevant to Generation X? Like I know Leech is a Morlock but he's a kid. Then Maggott, I read that he was only there for 1 issue. No clue about Artie and Gaia.

 

[JewishHobbit]

She was very active in the all female book. She was there for the entire run. She had that baby and even had a role in Battle of the Atom, so its good especially compare when she left the X-Men for Gen X and the 2000s.

Honestly, I kinda forgot about that series beyond the first arc. I don't even remember anything about it post BotA.

 

[psylockolussus]

Honestly, I kinda forgot about that series beyond the first arc. I don't even remember anything about it post BotA.

Thats understandble. There were just too many X-books during at that time. I kinda felt like I might binge read them again because I also binged read alll the comics I bought last decade, I just finished it like two weeks ago and read them with the ones that I missed buying. When I was binged read the post Age of X/Quarantine issues, there were just a lot to read and I tried to read them all fast. But the female book was my favorite then Amazing X-Men which was short. And then after those two, the Marjorie Lui's run of Astonishing X-Men whch was short too.

But looking back, I'm kinda glad that phase is over. I didn't really like Wolverine and the X-Men that much though I liked the students better than Cyclops' kids, it just didn't feel very X-Men to me, it was like X-Men in another reality. Uncanny X-Men vol. 3 was just eh, sometimes it was about the veteran X-Men then sometimes it was about the students. Legacy was pretty good but it was all about Legion. But All New X-Men is just the most forgettable to me like it was one of the first books I binged watch post Age of X and I don't remember a lot from it.

 

[Havok83]

Are the first three really relevant to Generation X? Like I know Leech is a Morlock but he's a kid. Then Maggott, I read that he was only there for 1 issue. No clue about Artie and Gaia.

No. Maggot was never a member of the team. He showed up for a two issue arc where he was going to join the school but decided against it. Artie and Leech go together. They are pretty much a pair. They werent members of the team either, just students, similarly to Franklin Richards. Not every kid at the school was a Gen X member. Gaia isnt even worth mentioning

But looking back, I'm kinda glad that phase is over. I didn't really like Wolverine and the X-Men that much though I liked the students better than Cyclops' kids, it just didn't feel very X-Men to me, it was like X-Men in another reality. Uncanny X-Men vol. 3 was just eh, sometimes it was about the veteran X-Men then sometimes it was about the students. Legacy was pretty good but it was all about Legion. But All New X-Men is just the most forgettable to me like it was one of the first books I binged watch post Age of X and I don't remember a lot from it.

I thought All New was the best X-men book during that time. It was pretty much a Jean Grey solo and since she's my favorite character, I loved it, even if the premise shouldnt have lasted longer than 12 issues

 

[JewishHobbit]

Besides Triage/Genesis, a lot of mutants from that generation aren't really around anymore. I kinda like that Anole is in Extraodinary right now.

Triage only really showed up in one issue of Extraordinary. I don't know if that counts for much. Genesis is awesome though.

Then the 5 lights, Oya is really out of place in the All-New X-Men while the rest didn't have a big expression on me (though I ddn't read Generation Hope).

I actually never like Oya, but people seemed to like her so I guess she could have some staying power. I actually forgot she was even in All-New to be honest. Generation Hope really wasn't that great. The last 5 or so issues was okay. Zero was really the only character I cared about, but when the original writer left and the next one came in, he took Zero down an obvious and less interesting path that will ultimately make him forgettable. He went from my favorite character in the book to one I forgot existed until this very post.

I don't know... I guess Transonic has a memorable look if anything become of her down the road.

Pixie joining the X-Men was just random to me though during that time a lot of mutants were just becoming X-Men (remember Ariel?) and it was just too much for me.

The reason why Pixie stood out for me at that time was that she actually got a whole issue devoted to her joining the team (in a Free Comic Book Day issue later reprinted as a one-shot). Then she became a core figure of Fraction's entire run. To me that was making the leap. People like Ariel, Hepzibah, and Adam X just randomly showed up.

One day, if they will open a school again, like they need to have a core group of students (without introducing new ones) that they need to focus that will eventually end up as X-Men.

That is what works best. You can't develop characters with a rotating cast. The original New X-Men crew during the New Mutants book was okay but fairly generic, and being that there were also the Morrison students with Dust, Omega, Cuckoos, Ernst, etc... there just wasn't anything to cling to. The New Mutant kids were made a little better during Academy X, but I always felt that the Hellions crew were more interesting. The best thing the book did was decimate the huge student body and focus on the more interesting characters. I know it sucked for fans of those other characters (I loved Tag), but the book and characters all became stronger as a result. They put them through the ringer and were careful when bringing in new characters like Anole and Pixie. That formula was working.

The rotating door and scattered focus kicked in again giving us Wolf Cub and Blindfold, getting rid of Hellion, Surge, Elixer, and many of the other core characters. Then they introduced two new characters randomly in Graymalkin and Cipher (Graymalkin's past dealt with in a random X-Men anthology mini) and it all just fell apart. Then the short spurt new student teams with no real introduction or character building in Generation Hope, Bendis' students, and Wolverine & the X-Men students just killed it.

I mean, how many of those students do we currently have running around in the background now? Introduced in the past 15 years since this generation started. I know they aren't all active, but just currently alive and powered:

Hellion, Elixer, Rockslide, Anole, Pixie, Match, Mercury, Prodigy, Surge, Loa, Blindfold, X-23, Indra, Dust, Winddancer, Trance, Angel Salvadore, Beak, No-Girl, Ernst, Dust, Quentin, Glob, Radian, Bling, Gentle, Carter Ghazikhanian, Armor, Blindfold, Phoebe Cuckoo, Mindy Cuckoo, Celeste Cuckoo, Ink, Graymalkin, Cipher, Broo, Eye Boy, Kid Gladiator, Genesis, Nature Girl, Shark Girl, Sprite, Velocidad, Hope Summers, Oya, Primal, Transonic, Angel, Beast, Iceman, Cyclops, Jean, Goldballs, Hijack, Tempus, Triage, Benjamin Deeds

I probably missed some, but that's 57 students currently powered and out there over the past 15 years.

Student wise, the previous 15 years introduced us to:

Chamber, Husk, Skin, Synch, Jubilee, M, Penance, Gaia, Blink, Maggott, St. Croix twin 1, St. Croix twin 2 (forget their names), Rust, Skids, Boom Boom, Rictor, Taki

And I THINK that's it. Others were introduced outside of a student roll like Feral and Shatterstar, but as far as students of the X-Men... 17.

17 versus 57.

LET CHARACTERS FREAKING DEVELOP BEFORE CREATING MORE!!!!!

Rant over.

 

[JewishHobbit]

No. Maggot was never a member of the team. He showed up for a two issue arc where he was going to join the school but decided against it. Artie and Leech go together. They are pretty much a pair. They werent members of the team either, just students, similarly to Franklin Richards. Not every kid at the school was a Gen X member. Gaia isnt even worth mentioning

Maggott didn't really join though it was recommended by Beast that he join. Some people just like lumping him in since he was a potential student like Blink.

Gaia was a student for about 10 issues (I'm guessing).

 

[Gee]

Mutant Universe? Mutants United?

 

[JewishHobbit]

Is it for sure X-Men related?

Good creative team.

 

[Mike Murdock]

It's not. Some people think the creative team points in that direction based on past work, though.

 

[Havok83]

Is it for sure X-Men related?

Good creative team.

McNiven is a top tier artist. I dont see Marvel "wasting" him on the X-men.

 

[Mad Ones]

Marvel likes to establish creative teams on X-books and then send them off to the titles DisneyMarvel cares about.

 

[Sithborg]

McNiven is a top tier artist. I dont see Marvel "wasting" him on the X-men.

So, they wasted Bendis on X-men for 2 years?

 

[Havok83]

So, they wasted Bendis on X-men for 2 years?

Bendis isnt an artist or at least hasnt been for quite some time

 

[chamber-music]

You forgot about Generation Hope. Instead of doing something with the core group they had, they kept introducing new groups of kids and it got beyond frustrating.

Triage only really showed up in one issue of Extraordinary. I don't know if that counts for much. Genesis is awesome though.



I actually never like Oya, but people seemed to like her so I guess she could have some staying power. I actually forgot she was even in All-New to be honest. Generation Hope really wasn't that great. The last 5 or so issues was okay. Zero was really the only character I cared about, but when the original writer left and the next one came in, he took Zero down an obvious and less interesting path that will ultimately make him forgettable. He went from my favorite character in the book to one I forgot existed until this very post.

I don't know... I guess Transonic has a memorable look if anything become of her down the road.



The reason why Pixie stood out for me at that time was that she actually got a whole issue devoted to her joining the team (in a Free Comic Book Day issue later reprinted as a one-shot). Then she became a core figure of Fraction's entire run. To me that was making the leap. People like Ariel, Hepzibah, and Adam X just randomly showed up.



That is what works best. You can't develop characters with a rotating cast. The original New X-Men crew during the New Mutants book was okay but fairly generic, and being that there were also the Morrison students with Dust, Omega, Cuckoos, Ernst, etc... there just wasn't anything to cling to. The New Mutant kids were made a little better during Academy X, but I always felt that the Hellions crew were more interesting. The best thing the book did was decimate the huge student body and focus on the more interesting characters. I know it sucked for fans of those other characters (I loved Tag), but the book and characters all became stronger as a result. They put them through the ringer and were careful when bringing in new characters like Anole and Pixie. That formula was working.

The rotating door and scattered focus kicked in again giving us Wolf Cub and Blindfold, getting rid of Hellion, Surge, Elixer, and many of the other core characters. Then they introduced two new characters randomly in Graymalkin and Cipher (Graymalkin's past dealt with in a random X-Men anthology mini) and it all just fell apart. Then the short spurt new student teams with no real introduction or character building in Generation Hope, Bendis' students, and Wolverine & the X-Men students just killed it.

I mean, how many of those students do we currently have running around in the background now? Introduced in the past 15 years since this generation started. I know they aren't all active, but just currently alive and powered:

Hellion, Elixer, Rockslide, Anole, Pixie, Match, Mercury, Prodigy, Surge, Loa, Blindfold, X-23, Indra, Dust, Winddancer, Trance, Angel Salvadore, Beak, No-Girl, Ernst, Dust, Quentin, Glob, Radian, Bling, Gentle, Carter Ghazikhanian, Armor, Blindfold, Phoebe Cuckoo, Mindy Cuckoo, Celeste Cuckoo, Ink, Graymalkin, Cipher, Broo, Eye Boy, Kid Gladiator, Genesis, Nature Girl, Shark Girl, Sprite, Velocidad, Hope Summers, Oya, Primal, Transonic, Angel, Beast, Iceman, Cyclops, Jean, Goldballs, Hijack, Tempus, Triage, Benjamin Deeds

I probably missed some, but that's 57 students currently powered and out there over the past 15 years.

Student wise, the previous 15 years introduced us to:

Chamber, Husk, Skin, Synch, Jubilee, M, Penance, Gaia, Blink, Maggott, St. Croix twin 1, St. Croix twin 2 (forget their names), Rust, Skids, Boom Boom, Rictor, Taki

And I THINK that's it. Others were introduced outside of a student roll like Feral and Shatterstar, but as far as students of the X-Men... 17.

17 versus 57.

LET CHARACTERS FREAKING DEVELOP BEFORE CREATING MORE!!!!!

Rant over.

I agree with you guys. They just kept creating new groups of young X-Men and then forget about them or kill them.

New Mutants and Generation X had long runs. The roster would add new members or someone would leave or return every now and again but ultimately there was a core group of characters you got to see develop over the years.

Marvel over recent years has been all about relaunching and changing things frequently as some sort of marketing gimmick. Your not sure if a character they use will even be around in 18 months time.

You can see why many X-Men fans think the comic franchise has declined a bit and lost it's way/identity at times.

 

[Sithborg]

Bendis isnt an artist or at least hasnt been for quite some time

He is pretty much Marvel's biggest star, though. If they were trying to bury X-men, like many try to claim, then he wouldn't have done 2 X-books.

 

[Havok83]

He is pretty much Marvel's biggest star, though. If they were trying to bury X-men, like many try to claim, then he wouldn't have done 2 X-books.

well thats an assumption you have taken from my post, which I didnt make

 

[Sithborg]

Sort of conflated two conversations, I guess.

 

[psylockolussus]

Triage only really showed up in one issue of Extraordinary. I don't know if that counts for much. Genesis is awesome though.

Triage was in Uncanny X-Men. He was saved by Psylocke's team from those healer killers.

And Brian Michael Bendis is just so blah. Keep him away from the X-Men comic-books!

Hellion, Elixer, Rockslide, Anole, Pixie, Match, Mercury, Prodigy, Surge, Loa, Blindfold, X-23, Indra, Dust, Winddancer, Trance, Angel Salvadore, Beak, No-Girl, Ernst, Dust, Quentin, Glob, Radian, Bling, Gentle, Carter Ghazikhanian, Armor, Blindfold, Phoebe Cuckoo, Mindy Cuckoo, Celeste Cuckoo, Ink, Graymalkin, Cipher, Broo, Eye Boy, Kid Gladiator, Genesis, Nature Girl, Shark Girl, Sprite, Velocidad, Hope Summers, Oya, Primal, Transonic, Angel, Beast, Iceman, Cyclops, Jean, Goldballs, Hijack, Tempus, Triage, Benjamin Deeds

You forgot Face

I cannot wait until they send the original 5 back to the past. They overstayed. All-New X-Men is like my least favorite X-book even though Extraordinary is the worst out of the three X-books right now. That roster is just full of knock-offs and recycled characters who don't look really different from the past X-Men characters. Like I prefer the older version, X-23 is a Wolverine knock-off, Genesis is Apocalypse gone good, then there's that bamf that reminds me of Nightcrawler so much while Oya is just so faceless to me, its like they put the powers of Sunfire/Iceman into 1 person.

Like I'd rather see a new title with a X-team consisting of Sage, Polaris, Havok, Gambit, Northstar and Rogue (bring her back to the X-Men) than them continue All-New. That would be Xciting!

 

[Havok83]

Sort of conflated two conversations, I guess.

well my comment was specific to artists, McNiven in particular. Artists and writers have different outputs. Bendis being on the X-books didnt prevent him from doing other stuff as he was also writing Guardians of the Galaxy and Miles' book at the same, both of which Marvel has been pushing hard in recent years. He wasnt "wasted" as he was still utilized elsewhere. Artists can typcically handle one ongoing project at a time and thats definitely the case for McNiven as he's tradtionally worked slower than most. He is considered top tier to them and tends to be put on big crossover minis, stuff they are trying to push and/or high profile books, which the X-books are not. Id be surprised if this were for an X-men ongoing

 

[JewishHobbit]

Triage was in Uncanny X-Men. He was saved by Psylocke's team from those healer killers.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I was thinking the right comic but gave it the wrong name.

And Brian Michael Bendis is just so blah. Keep him away from the X-Men comic-books!

He started off way better than I expected him to but got boring real quick. He was doing phenomenal until Battle of the Atom hit. Then it just sorta sucked (though he had some good stuff with Uncanny here and there).

You forgot Face

Oh yeah. I kinda liked Face. Dude needed a haircut though.

I cannot wait until they send the original 5 back to the past. They overstayed. All-New X-Men is like my least favorite X-book even though Extraordinary is the worst out of the three X-books right now. That roster is just full of knock-offs and recycled characters who don't look really different from the past X-Men characters. Like I prefer the older version, X-23 is a Wolverine knock-off, Genesis is Apocalypse gone good, then there's that bamf that reminds me of Nightcrawler so much while Oya is just so faceless to me, its like they put the powers of Sunfire/Iceman into 1 person.

I'm in a weird dilemma. I actually enjoy the All-New book quite a bit but hate that it stars the O5. I wish Humphries was writing that book about other students. I like Evan being there. Maybe some of the New X-Men students as it's time for them to branch out. I mean, a road trip with Hellion, Rockslide, Anole, Broo, Kid Gladiator, etc. Maybe have Hellion and Quentin competing in some way. It could have been really enjoyable.

I'm actually really tired of the Bamfs. The problem is that Jason Aaron created them in a way that made them not at all match previous "versions" of their bloodline. The idea there was that they were children of Azazel and siblings to Nightcrawler. Am I remembering that right? Well, the only other time we saw that was during Chuck Austen's Draco with Azazel and none of his siblings were cute little Nightcrawler ripoffs. The two of note were Abyss and Kiwi Black who stood on their own as their own characters with their own powers. I specifically LOVED Abyss thanks to the Age of Apoclypse and later appearances. There were other children, but they weren't Bamf-like at all. Bamfs aren't characters. They're plot devices.

Like I'd rather see a new title with a X-team consisting of Sage, Polaris, Havok, Gambit, Northstar and Rogue (bring her back to the X-Men) than them continue All-New. That would be Xciting!

I don't really care what random pairing of X-Men we get in random X-Men books (because I hate random pairing of random X-Men in random X-Men books) but I completely agree that Rogue and Gambit NEED to get back into X-Men proper. I feel like Gambit hasn't bee a core X-Man since the Blood of Apocalypse. Is that accurate?

 

[ImOctavius]

Hey! What's up? What should I read before "Utopia" (crossover storyline by Matt Fraction)?