Hawkeye Episode 5: Ronin (Spoiler Discussion)

[Limonade]

I hope to see some callback to the Netflix shows for those of us who have watched it. Maybe like him looking at the grey painting he bought all those years ago that he was transfixed by. Even if this is another universe... something that would tie both versions together in a way that would be a nod to what came before.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I hope to see some callback to the Netflix shows for those of us who have watched it. Maybe like him looking at the grey painting he bought all those years ago that he was transfixed by. Even if this is another universe... something that would tie both versions together in a way that would be a nod to what came before.

Am I wrong, but wasn't "Rabbit in a Snowstorm" all white, hence the name?

 

[sdgrandia86]

Kingpin may be the big guy pulling the strings but I don't think we will actually see Clint face him and I don't think he will have a big role in the last episode besides dialogue with Eleanor and perhaps Kazi and/or Maya.

Clint has made it clear that this is someone who is ruthless and not to be mess with; he himself seems to fear perhaps more so than Thanos because he is human and does not need a magical gauntlet to make people dissappear he only needs his henchman and underground connections. I think that's why I found his reveal to be sufficient and the fact most fans alwaready him in in DD series.

It will be interesting to see him interact with Yelena and we could get some gut wrenching scenes with both characters spilling their hearts out. I think that will be one of the main conflicts in the end along with the rolex thread that gets resolved.

I think Maya will switch sides once she finds out the Kingpin killed her dad and could join Clint in the fight before taking off into her spinoff like Vision. A post credit scene could be Clint handing down Ronin costume to her and perhaps have a role as a mentor figure to Kate and the Young Avengers.

I can see Yelena defecting as well. Not sure how she will be used forward but I don't see her continuing to work with Val after the conversation she had with Kate and how she tipped her in the end.

As for the rolex, maybe it somehow connects Laura to Ronin/Hawkeye and her her previous role as an agent - Mockingbird - before switching her name once she wanted to focus on raising a family. I'll go nuts if we see a deaged Laura in a blonde wig and spandex kicking ass in a flashback.

Looking forward to Kate confronting her mom, Kate is way down the rabbit hole now between her moms reveal and the Fisk and Widow assassin connection.

Also looking forward to more Maya/Kazi confrontation. I'm thinking Fisk kept him close to her to keep her from straying off the path and fund the truth of her dad, only reason she was kept alive is because of her skills and he saw her as a weapon.

Loving this show and hope they deliver with Fisk. The show served as a way to bring Yelena to the bigger mcu, introduce the underworld through Echo and Fisk continuing in her spinoff and of course Clint retiring. As well as show Clint struggle with the weight of Natasha death and make amends after being given a second chance. The character and Renner really benefitted from it and show how great of a character/actor they are.

 

[Limonade]

Am I wrong, but wasn't "Rabbit in a Snowstorm" all white, hence the name?

Could be. It was mostly white, one could assume. I'm a glass half full guy myself, so I saw some shades of grey and thought that's what it mostly had.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If the finale of Hawkeye S1 is 90 mins, I wouldn't complain.

 

[Sithborg]

If the finale of Hawkeye S1 is 90 mins, I wouldn't complain.

It is sadly needed.

I am kind of sad just how much the Maya "twist" is souring me on the whole show's pace.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It is sadly needed.

I am kind of sad just how much the Maya "twist" is souring me on the whole show's pace.

But it was so obviously coming, I already baked it in.

 

[Sithborg]

But it was so obviously coming, I already baked it in.

On the one hand, I am glad they didn't chicken out and make it not Clint who killed her father. But the "I'm just the weapon" feels extremely hollow when you are vigilante going all punisher on criminals. Yeah, you got a tip. But you really aren't working for anyone to take responsibility for pointing you at your target.

It feels like a lazy attempt to set up a spinoff. There is a reason back door pilots are rough episodes when inserted into a series.

On the plus side, I am now very, very interested in Laura's past based on that phone call.

 

[flickchick85]

Yelena Belova single-handedly shooting my affection for this show up to a whole 'nother level? More likely than you'd think.

First episode I've really, really liked. Also quite intrigued about Laura now.

 

[Iceman]

I didn’t know how much I wanted there to be more to Laura till this show. I’ve always liked there being one hero with a family and having to try and live their life around that, but now we’ve had that and maybe we can see why Laura was able to cope so well with all the crazy stuff she’s had to go through.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yelena Belova single-handedly shooting my affection for this show up to a whole 'nother level? More likely than you'd think.

First episode I've really, really liked. Also quite intrigued about Laura now.

FC liked one!

And yes, the best Widow is already making the MCU a better place. Same with the best Hawkeye.

 

[Sithborg]

I didn’t know how much I wanted there to be more to Laura till this show. I’ve always liked there being one hero with a family and having to try and live their life around that, but now we’ve had that and maybe we can see why Laura was able to cope so well with all the crazy stuff she’s had to go through.

I've always liked Hawkeye's family. And words cannot tell you how frustrated I was after watching Black Widow to know we won't get Nat and Yelena having a visit with Clint's family.

I think between this, Supergirl/Superman & Lois, and Capt Marvel, I have realized I am a sucker for super hero family stuff.

 

[Iceman]

I've always liked Hawkeye's family. And words cannot tell you how frustrated I was after watching Black Widow to know we won't get Nat and Yelena having a visit with Clint's family.

I think between this, Supergirl/Superman & Lois, and Capt Marvel, I have realized I am a sucker for super hero family stuff.

That could have been a nice Xmas show episode.

I like having actual families like we’ve got to experience with Hawkeye since AoU and very briefly in Black Widow, but otherwise teams that are like families like the F4 and especially X-Men have always been my favourites in comics.

 

[TheVileOne]

On the one hand, I am glad they didn't chicken out and make it not Clint who killed her father. But the "I'm just the weapon" feels extremely hollow when you are vigilante going all punisher on criminals. Yeah, you got a tip. But you really aren't working for anyone to take responsibility for pointing you at your target.

It feels like a lazy attempt to set up a spinoff. There is a reason back door pilots are rough episodes when inserted into a series.

On the plus side, I am now very, very interested in Laura's past based on that phone call.

They definitely seem to be gearing up for some major reveal for Laura, so we'll see.

The thing with the Ronin scene didn't work for me. I'm not sure what Clint truly expected or wanted to do there. What would've given that scene some teeth is if he actually was ready to go far enough to kill Maya but Kate stops him just in the nick of time.

And yeah getting a tipoff from Kazi and Kingpin doesn't really absolve him either.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They definitely seem to be gearing up for some major reveal for Laura, so we'll see.

The thing with the Ronin scene didn't work for me. I'm not sure what Clint truly expected or wanted to do there. What would've given that scene some teeth is if he actually was ready to go far enough to kill Maya but Kate stops him just in the nick of time.

And yeah getting a tipoff from Kazi and Kingpin doesn't really absolve him either.

This would have ignored what Nat did for him in Endgame. Bringing him back from that edge. It would ignore the entire conversation Kate and Yelena have.

 

[Web-Head]

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Kev4000]

If the finale of Hawkeye S1 is 90 mins, I wouldn't complain.

It is desperatly needed. 1h at least. At this point I even think there is no real end boss fight here. They have so end so much storylines and need to give us the feel-good christmas ending for at least 10min. I already think the whole Eleanor/Jack-storyline falls too short. Jack will never become swordman here.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[ragingdemon155]

I’m probably on an island by myself on this but, this episode kind of didn’t do it for me. The style of dialogue/conversation just drove me absolutely insane in this episode. It’s like things that are intended to be funny….just aren’t. That entire conversation between Kate and Natasha’s sister was just painful at times to listen to. I get that it’s the Disney/MCU way of having characters converse but damn, it felt like they dialed it up to 11 on that one.

This is what worries me about the introduction of Kingpin. I don’t see how he fits into this world that they they’ve created. The last thing I want to see is him dialed back to fit into their universe.

The series as a whole has actually been a fun ride. I’ve enjoyed it more then any other MCU show. It’s just I’m so tired of every single character on these shows almost sounded exactly the same because Disney wants everyone to have the same voice in a sense.

As excited as I am for Kingpins arrival…I’m just as equally nervous that it won’t be the guy that set the world of Netflix on fire.

 

[metaphysician]

Was Yelena threatening Kate or did she take her advice? Is she having second thoughts on her mission to kill Clint. That is one interaction/confrontation I'm looking forward to seeing.

My read is that Yelena is in a mixed up place emotionally. She hates and blames Clint for Natasha being dead, *but*, that's not the sole reason she is showing up. She's showing up because she was hired to do a job. Finding out that there are elements of bad faith in the job may put her desire for revenge and her ( minimal ) sense of basic decency and professionalism in conflict, which should hopefully open room for "Okay, I am no longer on the clock to kill you, but I still hate you", and thus into a more healthy resolution of her grief.

Her intro was also a solid reminder of how badly the Blip sucked for people. Its little wonder Yelena is in a "I want badly conceived revenge" place, especially since she wasn't exactly a pillar of moral fortitude in the first place.

Is Maya going to jump ship against the kingpin? Hope we get some scenes with him next week.

I imagine she will, its the most obviously foreshadowed thing. Mind, I wouldn't take that to mean a heroic redemption angle, she was still an entirely willing mid level crimeboss/supervillain, just with a new revenge target. I kind of wonder *why* Fisk had her father killed, mind. Was he preparing to go to the police? Was he stealing from him? Was he just old and Fisk wanted to replace him, perhaps while conveniently encouraging his highly trained daughter to become a driven revenge-motivated supervillain minion?

As an aside, I give props to the show for the way they handled Clint's confrontation with Maya. Specifically, in that he absolutely *didn't* apologize for killing her dad. Clint may admit that she's got a valid reason for feeling angry, and sympathize with her pain at losing family, but he's not going to say he's sorry for stabbing a crime boss running a criminal operation. Instead, he goes for a combo of "I will try to be nice, but if you come after my family you will die" and "Hey, look, another target for your vengeance". Because Clint Barton may be a great father and an understate pillar of heroism, but he also can be a bit of a manipulative dick. *ahem*

 

[Kev4000]

Its interesting if that is enough time, but I hope so.

 

[Zarex]

I'm thinking an hour will be enough. The Maya sub plot/backdoor pilot will probably to be tabled to the Echo show. So Kate and Clint have to take down Evil Mom/Madam Masque at the fancy party while avoiding Yelena (Who may not be that into killing Clint by this point and could actually help our heroes), hopefully have at least one good scene with Vincent D'onofrio along the way and then get Clint back to Mizzou in time for Christmas morning so he can give Laura back her damn watch. It's a lot but definitely doable.

 

[Dark Raven]

Could be. It was mostly white, one could assume. I'm a glass half full guy myself, so I saw some shades of grey and thought that's what it mostly had.

If someone stole that painting and replaced it with a piece of canvas with white masonry paint, would Kingpin even know the difference?

 

[Dr. Evil]

Its interesting if that is enough time, but I hope so.

It will probably be 42 minutes and 16 minutes of post credits.