Fantastic Four General News & Discussion Thread (TAG SPOILERS)

[antsman41]

These movies have been mapped out years in advance, including pre-production work. So yes, it is. Kang Dynasty would have to basically get a page 1 rewrite, thus delaying both it and Secret Wars likely by at least a year. Plus scrapping the millions already invested into it. Then you need to invest millions into rewrites and reshoots and such on projects already either filming or close to filming. You simply cannot just toss everything and start again so easily. That isn't how filmmaking works. All this would cost hundreds of millions across these various projects. Know what's cheaper than that? Recasting Kang. That will only cost you some of Majors salary on his contract, whatever the new actor will cost, and some budget for new costumes made for the new actor. Easier, cheaper, more logical.

Kang (s0 far) are a bunch of different one-offs/variants.

This isn't a Thanos situation.

This is is easy to fix. It doesn't have to be Doom, just he's a logical 'next step' or replacement.

His costumes are all one-offs/mostly cgi - easy fix.

They plan for contingencies (maybe not to the level, but they do), all good writers do.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Kang (s0 far) are a bunch of different one-offs/variants.

This isn't a Thanos situation.

This is is easy to fix. It doesn't have to be Doom, just he's a logical 'next step' or replacement.

His costumes are all one-offs/mostly cgi - easy fix.

They plan for contingencies (maybe not to the level, but they do), all good writers do.

It doesn't matter who you name the replacement, the problem is the same. Recasting Kang is cheaper and easier than spending hundreds of millions of dollars to do a complete pivot. You keep calling it "easy" and it isn't. It is easy when you are a fanboy who can fantasy book whatever you want without the logistics of spending real world money, but Feige and Marvel live in the real world where things cost money and money has already been spent developing the Multiverse Saga with Kang as the villain. They're not going to ditch the hundreds of millions they already spent to replace Kang. That's as realistic as the notion that they were going drop Shang-Chi and Eternals and such so they could fast track the FF and X-Men and make them the focus of the MCU immediately.

Kang is either going to continue on with Majors or he will be recast. Kang will not be replaced. Bank on it. Marvel isn't entertaining any other options.

 

[antsman41]

Loki 2 is the only concrete Kang project, filmed and 'almost ready' to be released.

Secret Invasion - no Kang
Marvels - maybe a little Kang (credits scene, if there was one, can be changed)
Echo - no Kang
Iron Heart - no Kang
Agatha - no Kang
DD - no Kang
Cap 4 - no Kang
Thunderbolts - no Kang
Armor Wars - no Kang
Spider-Man 4 - no Kang

...so again, I don't see how they can't tweak their future.

Kang Dynasty is easier to kill than Duel Of The Fates, yet they essentially started from ground zero after TLJ - with less time, and they even had most of the cast banked.

Kang Dynasty has nothing banked outside of maybe an early rough script.

And, we know how fast they can be tossed/re-written/fixed. For the good, the mid (Wakanda Forever) or for the worst (The Rise Of Skywalker).

LucasFilm has been killing 'future projects' like they're The Riddler killing corrupt Gotham officials... Marvel can kill Kang Dynasty.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Loki 2 is the only concrete Kang project, filmed and 'almost ready' to be released.

Secret Invasion - no Kang
Marvels - maybe a little Kang (credits scene, if there was one, can be changed)
Echo - no Kang
Iron Heart - no Kang
Agatha - no Kang
DD - no Kang
Cap 4 - no Kang
Thunderbolts - no Kang
Armor Wars - no Kang
Spider-Man 4 - no Kang

...so again, I don't see how they can't tweak their future.

Kang Dynasty is easier to kill than Duel Of The Fates, yet they essentially started from ground zero after TLJ - with less time, and they even had most of the cast banked.

Kang Dynasty has nothing banked outside of maybe an early rough script.

And, we know how fast they can be tossed/re-written/fixed. For the good, the mid (Wakanda Forever) or for the worst (The Rise Of Skywalker).

LucasFilm has been killing 'future projects' like they're The Riddler killing corrupt Gotham officials... Marvel can kill Kang Dynasty.

You do realize that scripts and pre-pro stuff are made concurrently, correct? Meaning costumes, sets, concept art and such are being made as its written. That all costs money. So it isn't as easy as change the script. Wakanda Forever changed a lot, but they were in a unique position. T'Challa ain't Kang. We also don't know when Kang is appearing, but again that's irrelevant. Avengers Kang Dynasty is already in the works. That's the end goal. If they rewrite that at page 1, Secret Wars will require the same. Your suggestion isn't realistic.

Further, where in your concept is Doom introduced? All the projects you listed as no Kang have no Doom either (that we know of and likely aint changing). So where is the grand villain coming? At the last minute in Phase 6? There is no buildup there. Kang we already know and have much more foundation there. Doom or whoever would just feel forced. Bad storytelling.

Lucasfilm killing their projects is bad business and costing them a lot of money. Smart businesses don't do that, and Feige has never been like that.

I am sorry, but this idea is not competent business. Again, your idea costs a bunch more money than simply casting another dude. There is no business logic. Just fanboy wishful thinking that stems from "I don't like Kang so far, so this is the chance to get rid of him for someone I like more" and that isn't enough for Marvel to use as the foundation for business logic

 

[antsman41]

You do realize that scripts and pre-pro stuff are made concurrently, correct? Meaning costumes, sets, concept art and such are being made as its written. That all costs money. So it isn't as easy as change the script. Wakanda Forever changed a lot, but they were in a unique position. T'Challa ain't Kang. We also don't know when Kang is appearing, but again that's irrelevant. Avengers Kang Dynasty is already in the works. That's the end goal. If they rewrite that at page 1, Secret Wars will require the same. Your suggestion isn't realistic.

They honestly don't with Marvel... and that's the issue.

Now, Matt Reeves - yes. He does that. But, not Marvel.. at least not for since maybe Iron Man 3 or at best, Endgame.

Further, where in your concept is Doom introduced? All the projects you listed as no Kang have no Doom either (that we know of and likely ainr changing). So where is the grand villain coming? At the last minute in Phase 6? There is no buildup there. Kang we already know and have much more foundation there. Doom or whoever would just feel forced. Bad storytelling.

Maybe, we're all better off without one. That'd be the better option... nut if they need a 'big bad' - build up Doom (or someone) next for a 'finale' in late Phase 6 or Phase 7.

Lucasfilm killing their projects is bad business and costing them a lot of money. Smart businesses don't do that, and Feige has never been like that.

I am sorry, but this idea is not competent business. Again, your idea costs a bunch more money than simply casting another dude. There is no business logic. Just fanboy wishful thinking that stems from "I don't like Kang so far, so this is the chance to get rid of him for someone I like more" and that isn't enough for Marvel to use as the foundation for business logic

Well, when you're relying on a pathetic pos actor who beats women - you need to make brash decisions.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They honestly don't with Marvel... and that's the issue.

Now, Matt Reeves - yes. He does that. But, not Marvel.. at least not for since maybe Iron Man 3 or at best, Endgame.



Maybe, we're all better off without one. That'd be the better option... nut if they need a 'big bad' - build up Doom (or someone) next for a 'finale' in late Phase 6 or Phase 7.



Well, when you're relying on a pathetic pos actor who beats women - you need to make brash decisions.

Marvel does do that. Yes they do use more CG than most studios, but Wakanda Forever and GOTG3 showcase impressive sets as well. So yes, they 100% do that.

The woman beating thing is awful, and why he likely will be recast. Brash decision doesn't mean cost your company hundreds of millions of dollars to introduce a brand new character at the last minute before your big event that was originally planned around that character. At that point that isn't brash, that's shooting yourself in the face for a wound that needed a bandaid. Again, fanboy logic. Not business or even storytelling logic

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Honestly, I haven’t seen Jonathan Majors do anything that any reasonably talented actor couldn’t do.

It’s not like he did something amazing with the character that no other actors can hope to match.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I liked Majors as Kang and all, but that's irrelevant, honestly. Even if the man was RDJ good, he is gonna end up replaced due to the controversy in all likelihood. Regardless how people feel about Kang to date

 

[Venom 1988]

Well, when you're relying on a pathetic pos actor who beats women - you need to make brash decisions.

Yeah it's called recasting. It's the least painful path forward.

 

[antsman41]

Marvel does do that. Yes they do use more CG than most studios, but Wakanda Forever and GOTG3 showcase impressive sets as well. So yes, they 100% do that.

The woman beating thing is awful, and why he likely will be recast. Brash decision doesn't mean cost your company hundreds of millions of dollars to introduce a brand new character at the last minute before your big event that was originally planned around that character. At that point that isn't brash, that's shooting yourself in the face for a wound that needed a bandaid. Again, fanboy logic. Not business or even storytelling logic

You keep saying hundreds of millions of dollars as fact, when that isn't true at all.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You keep saying hundreds of millions of dollars as fact, when that isn't true at all.

It 100% is. Writers cost money. Sets cost money. Costumes cost money. Concept art costs money. This stuff isn't free. Losing locations cause of delays or changes costs money. Changing shooting dates costs money. Reshoots that may be required cost money. Factor in all the projects you are changing around to make this happen, and it's going to be 100s of millions. This is 100% an undeniable fact. That's how filmmaking works

 

[antsman41]

It 100% is. Writers cost money. Sets cost money. Costumes cost money. Concept art costs money. This stuff isn't free. Losing locations cause of delays or changes costs money. Changing shooting dates costs money. Reshoots that may be required cost money. Factor in all the projects you are changing around to make this happen, and it's going to be 100s of millions. This is 100% an undeniable fact. That's how filmmaking works

KANG DYNASTY doesn't have pretty much any of that yet, so................................

 

[Spider-Fan]

KANG DYNASTY doesn't have pretty much any of that yet, so................................

Some of this stuff is already being made for Kang Dynasty, so yes it is. And again, we don't know how many other projects on the slate Kang is involved in. So we don't know exactly how many other projects are effected if you change the main bad guy. I highly doubt the plan was 0 Kang until KD. And also the movie shoots next year. They already have locations and such scheduled for this even this far out. Especially when a shoot will be as long as an Avengers movie. Delaying all that cause you had to rewrite the movie tremendously and scrapping all the existing work costs a large chunk of money. Much more than simply changing the actor. By a very wide margin.

I am not going to keep this back and forth going. We are going in circles. But if you think they can just change the bad guy, with no build up, and write in an all new guy and it won't be expensive to do so, then you are naive.

 

[antsman41]

Some of this stuff is already being made for Kang Dynasty, so yes it is. And again, we don't know how many other projects on the slate Kang is involved in. So we don't know exactly how many other projects are effected if you change the main bad guy. I highly dount the plan was 0 Kang until KD. And also the movie shoots next year. They already have locations and such scheduled for this even this far out. Especially when a shoot will be as long as an Avengers movie. Delaying all that cause you had to rewrite the movie tremendously and scrapping all the existing work costs a large chunk of money. Much more than simply changing the actor. By a very wide margin.

I am not going to keep this back and forth going. We are going in circles. But if you think they can just change the bad guy, with no build up, and write in an all new guy and it won't be expensive to do so, then you are naive.

 

[Crimz]

Kang is one of the easiest characters to recast. His variant thing makes it extremely easy and it's already been set-up that he has tons of variants. Why would they rewrite an entire phase when all they have to do is recast the easiest character to recast?
Finding someone with the talent of Majors might be a bit of challenge, but it's a lot better than scraping years of planning and money.

Also, luckily for Marvel, Majors hasn't been in many projects yet. So people won't be too attached to his take on the character (plus every character he plays is a different variant which thankfully lends to change).

 

[Frodo]

As much as I'd prefer Doom as the next big bad, the cake is baked , and we're stuck with Kang , for good or ill , for the next several years.

They'll just recast the role, and perhaps ,try to improve things on the writing side.
But Kang is a done deal at this point .

 

[Stark Bauer]

Loki 2 is the only concrete Kang project, filmed and 'almost ready' to be released.

Secret Invasion - no Kang
Marvels - maybe a little Kang (credits scene, if there was one, can be changed)
Echo - no Kang
Iron Heart - no Kang
Agatha - no Kang
DD - no Kang
Cap 4 - no Kang
Thunderbolts - no Kang
Armor Wars - no Kang
Spider-Man 4 - no Kang

...so again, I don't see how they can't tweak their future.

Kang Dynasty is easier to kill than Duel Of The Fates, yet they essentially started from ground zero after TLJ - with less time, and they even had most of the cast banked.

Kang Dynasty has nothing banked outside of maybe an early rough script.

And, we know how fast they can be tossed/re-written/fixed. For the good, the mid (Wakanda Forever) or for the worst (The Rise Of Skywalker).

LucasFilm has been killing 'future projects' like they're The Riddler killing corrupt Gotham officials... Marvel can kill Kang Dynasty.

I appreciate your posts man.

We really don’t know beyond certainty that A project is Kang Free or not.

that being said, you are right, it is never too late to change course or at least modify it. Let’s say they go ahead with Kang Dynasty. They could also set up a second villain for Secret Wars. It doesn’t even have to be Doom. Hell it could be anyone from Mephisto to Annihilus. But they should have both appear (Kang or Mephisto/Annihilus/Dormammu) in the other upcoming MCU projects. That way the audience isnt sure where this is going and it is different enough from the Infinity Gauntlet phase…maybe have the two villains Kang and Annihilus in a weird rivalry..the fallout of which could even set up the introduction of Doom and Galactus along with the Fantastic Four.

on Doom…
i can totally see Doom/Latveria being mentioned at the very least in Thunderbolts, Armor Wars, and Secret Wars (it would be a massive missed opportunity to not even hint at Doom in Secret Wars since that story in the comics is inextricably linked to Doom, it would be a nice easter egg anyway).

 

[Iceman]

Kang is one of the easiest characters to recast. His variant thing makes it extremely easy and it's already been set-up that he has tons of variants. Why would they rewrite an entire phase when all they have to do is recast the easiest character to recast?
Finding someone with the talent of Majors might be a bit of challenge, but it's a lot better than scraping years of planning and money.

Also, luckily for Marvel, Majors hasn't been in many projects yet. So people won't be too attached to his take on the character (plus every character he plays is a different variant which thankfully lends to change).

Yep, as easy as it gets to recast this particular character without needing a big fuss. As you say, replacing with an equivalent talent is the more challenging part.

 

[samsnee]

 

[Venom 1988]

I dig this casting.

 

[Sawyer]

Paul Mescal’s trajectory says to me that he should really be the solo lead of a franchise rather than second banana in a group thing, so I’m not quite sure I buy this.

 

[Iceman]

That combo would give me a lot of confidence in the film but might be asking a lot.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If true, it’s a talented cast that doesn’t fit the roles very well.

Reminds me of when the Eagles or Steelers have a lot of depth at a certain position and then draft a player in that position because: “He was the best athlete on the board.”

Yeah, it’s good to get talent, but you also need to consider specific needs and how that person fits the need.

This cast isn’t a great fit.

None of them are terrible, but none of them are great either. If a couple of them were perfectly cast, the other two could be a little off, but in this case, every role is a little off.

To the point that when you step back and look at the group, it just doesn’t feel like the FF.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Paul Mescal’s trajectory says to me that he should really be the solo lead of a franchise rather than second banana in a group thing, so I’m not quite sure I buy this.

Gladiator 2 would also surely conflict with this.

 

[Iceman]

If true, it’s a talented cast that doesn’t fit the roles very well.

Reminds me of when the Eagles or Steelers have a lot of depth at a certain position and then draft a player in that position because: “He was the best athlete on the board.”

Yeah, it’s good to get talent, but you also need to consider specific needs and how that person fits the need.

This cast isn’t a great fit.

None of them are terrible, but none of them are great either. If a couple of them were perfectly cast, the other two could be a little off, but in this case, every role is a little off.

To the point that when you step back and look at the group, it just doesn’t feel like the FF.

For all the faults of the MCU, casting of heroes has been one of the things they’ve done well. I doubt they are changing strategy to assemble talent without caring about fit, so even if who they go for doesn’t look like an obvious match on paper, I reckon they will have seen enough behind the scenes to have a good reason for their choices.