The Curious Case of Spider-Man & Hulk Rights (Or Keep Hope Alive That the Rights Will Revert)

[spidercide89]

You know, I'd be curious to see an even more comprehensive take that follows every character's historical path, not just their current licensing. Sure, Marvel/Disney has the rights to the Punisher currently, but which hands did it pass through in the past, even in cases where no movie was made, for example.

This is the part of the article that I find most interesting:

"Under the terms of that deal, the movie rights to Spider-Man and characters like Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Vulture, and more will stay with Sony forever, as long as the studio produces at least one Spider-Man movie every five years and nine months."

This seems to directly contradict what Stan Lee said about the outstanding Marvel movie rights in 2017:

"Sooner or later, [Marvel is] going to get the rights back to all our characters. They're working on it, and they're still making X-Men movies and stuff. Don't worry about it. You'll get more Marvel superheroes than you'll have time to look at in the next few years."

Obviously he was referencing the Disney/Fox acquisition but I wonder what else he knew? All we can do is speculate at this point...

On a side note, it looks like Sony's Venom franchise has hit a brick wall. Let There Be Carnage is struggling to earn even half of what the first movie made internationally.

Sure you can argue the pandemic effect but this is CARNAGE, man! This movie should have been the one to take the Venom franchise over the top, similar to what The Dark Knight did for Batman in 2008. Batman Begins set up the (new) franchise and The Dark Knight rocked the box office by adding Batman's most famous villain.

It's rather inarguable that Carnage is to Venom what Joker is to Batman. Any future Venom sequels will probably seem anticlimactic after Sony blowing their motherlode with Carnage.

This shouldn't delight me but I have to admit it kinda does

 

[Venom 1988]

This seems to directly contradict what Stan Lee said about the outstanding Marvel movie rights in 2017:

"Sooner or later, [Marvel is] going to get the rights back to all our characters. They're working on it, and they're still making X-Men movies and stuff. Don't worry about it. You'll get more Marvel superheroes than you'll have time to look at in the next few years."

Obviously he was referencing the Disney/Fox acquisition but I wonder what else he knew? All we can do is speculate at this point...

I feel like this is less insider knowledge and more wishful thinking. I like Stan Lee and I'm sure he was in the know with certain stuff but overall in the later stages of his life, he was not involved in any of the inner workings of these things.

 

[metaphysician]

It technically doesn't touch upon the matter of Statutory Reversion, is the thing. As my non-lawyer-self understands the topic, there comes a point where, regardless of what the current contract says, the original IP owner can take back their toys unless you negotiate a new contract with them. Its just, said point is something like "thirty years after the last mutual contract" or something.

 

[Detective Conan]

I feel like this is less insider knowledge and more wishful thinking. I like Stan Lee and I'm sure he was in the know with certain stuff but overall in the later stages of his life, he was not involved in any of the inner workings of these things.

Technically, Lee’s words did end up proving rather prescient. Marvel did ultimately get the rights/access to most, if not all their characters.

 

[Prison Mike]

Disney should buy Sony…there I said it.

 

[spidercide89]

Disney should buy Sony…there I said it.

THIS.

Agree 1000%. This has been on my wish list ever since I first read about the Fox acquisition. Unfortunately though it would never pass through all the myriad regulatory/approval phases...

We can still dream though

 

[NotNickFury]

Disney should buy Sony…there I said it.

You keep dreaming there. They'd sooner be bought by Apple than the House of Mouse, which already has enough under its large belt as is.

 

[psylockolussus]

Disney should buy Sony…there I said it.

That would be eXciting!

THIS.

Agree 1000%. This has been on my wish list ever since I first read about the Fox acquisition. Unfortunately though it would never pass through all the myriad regulatory/approval phases...

We can still dream though

Disney could buy the film rights of Spider-Man and characters or just Sony Pictures.

It'd be a smaller purchase compare to FoX, as FoX had dozens of assets that went to Disney including cable networks. Sony Pictures would be a great addition to Disney+ and Hulu.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I want Marvel to have full access to the Spider-Man IP, but I really don't want Disney to own all of Sony.
Honestly I wouldn't mind Disney losing most of 20th Century Fox again (Pretty much all FOX animation including Blue Sky was better before Disney who either cancelled or neutered a lot of what was there, a whole slew of movie and tv properties Disney seems to have pretty much no interest in, etc.).

 

[Prison Mike]

I was half kidding. I know realistically it can’t happen. There would be so many regulatory hurdles to jump over, not to mention a lot of pushback from the political arena most likely. Also, a company never acquires another one just for one IP. Not sure what other IP Sony owns that would be attractive enough for Disney.

As for Disney just buying back the Spider-Man film rights, I don’t see Sony accepting any number from Disney just because they would be losing out on potential future box office worth billions. Another Sony/Disney deal for Spider-Man is way more likely. I think Disney could also do one with Universal if they still own Hulk film rights.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I know this would've never happened but I kind of wish that they made a deal where Marvel got access to all Sony's contemporary characters (including Venom, Carnage, Morbius, Kraven, Black Cat, Silver Sable, etc.) but Sony instead got
1. An extra benefical deal when it comes to animated Spider-Man movies (so they would be more motivated to make many sequels, spinoffs, etc. for Spiderverse)
AND
2. they got to make their own Spider-Man 2099 franchise which wouldn't step on toes or take any characters that could feasibly show up alongside Holland's spidey but allowed Sony to regularly output their own live action Spider-Man movie that's sufficiently different from both their past versions and the MCU as well as maybe benefit from being implied as being a possible future for the MCU..

If audiences can differentiate between Gotham/Affleck Batman/Titans/Pennyworth/Joker/Batwoman/Pattinson Batman/Michael Keaton Batman as being different versions of the Gotham characters that broadly overlap in releases, surely they can understand Miguel being in the future and not being Peter without confusion...

 

[spidercide89]

Another Sony/Disney deal for Spider-Man is way more likely. I think Disney could also do one with Universal if they still own Hulk film rights.

I may be wrong but I think another Sony/Disney deal for a shared Spider-Man is highly unlikely. As others in this thread have pointed out, Disney doesn't need Spider-Man anywhere near as badly as Sony does at this point. The fact that Disney is introducing characters like Eternals, Shang-Chi, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Moon Knight, etc shows where their priorities are. Plus, Disney could make an entire cinematic universe out of just the X-Men and F4 properties if they were so inclined. Spider-Man is possibly too 'old school' for them at this point...

I'm thinking that without the MCU connection, Sony's Spiderverse will go back to floundering like it was in 2014. I've already pointed out that Venom is struggling, and I doubt Morbius will set any box office records. If anything, Sony will be the one crawling back and asking for an extension on the shared character rights deal, not Disney...

Interestingly enough, the future of Spider-Man at the movies has a great deal to do with Tom Holland. If he decides to jump ship after the current Sony/Disney deal expires, Sony will be in an even worse position. He most likely represents the final link to the MCU in the minds of the public. If Sony is forced to recast the character yet again, I can see fatigue setting in with the general public similar to what happened after the Garfield movies.

Time will tell...

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Yeah. But from everything I've heard about Sony, from their trackrecord with renegotiating the deal, to the Sony leaks to recent interviews with Amy Pascal, it seems very likely to me that they'll get Tom Holland spidey to move over to their Spider-Man universe together with Venom, Morbius, etc. soon. I don't think that'll save them though. As others just said, the Venom movies have shown they can't keep this up and indeed it's uncertain whether Holland would even stay on and for how long. I wonder what'll happen if Sony gets Spider-Man back in their own universe and it fails again. If Tom's out or enough time passes it'll be hard to reintegrate into the MCU again. Plus I don't know if Sony's execs will want to return to Marvel and admit they failed on their own to investors. Maybe they'd use Peter's disappearance from the MCU as a vehicle to set up Miles replacing him or something? It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where the messiness of the behind the scenes deals won't lead to messiness in the story. Even No Way Home seems to risk being messy already.

 

[psylockolussus]

I may be wrong but I think another Sony/Disney deal for a shared Spider-Man is highly unlikely. As others in this thread have pointed out, Disney doesn't need Spider-Man anywhere near as badly as Sony does at this point. The fact that Disney is introducing characters like Eternals, Shang-Chi, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Moon Knight, etc shows where their priorities are. Plus, Disney could make an entire cinematic universe out of just the X-Men and F4 properties if they were so inclined. Spider-Man is possibly too 'old school' for them at this point...

I'm thinking that without the MCU connection, Sony's Spiderverse will go back to floundering like it was in 2014. I've already pointed out that Venom is struggling, and I doubt Morbius will set any box office records. If anything, Sony will be the one crawling back and asking for an extension on the shared character rights deal, not Disney...

Interestingly enough, the future of Spider-Man at the movies has a great deal to do with Tom Holland. If he decides to jump ship after the current Sony/Disney deal expires, Sony will be in an even worse position. He most likely represents the final link to the MCU in the minds of the public. If Sony is forced to recast the character yet again, I can see fatigue setting in with the general public similar to what happened after the Garfield movies.

Time will tell...

I think Sony was lucky that Marvel Studios agreed to work with them after TASM2/Sony leaks.

But with how they are doing these villain movies and so aggressively trying to connect those films with MCU Spider-Man films, I doubt that is making Disney happy.

Its only a matter of time when Sony hits another wall and everything for them is rebooted again. Marvel Studios on the other hand, already featured Spider-Man for a couple of films. They don't need to feature Spider-Man for the rest of the mcu to sustain their success.

 

[spidercide89]

Yeah. But from everything I've heard about Sony, from their trackrecord with renegotiating the deal, to the Sony leaks to recent interviews with Amy Pascal, it seems very likely to me that they'll get Tom Holland spidey to move over to their Spider-Man universe together with Venom, Morbius, etc. soon. I don't think that'll save them though. As others just said, the Venom movies have shown they can't keep this up and indeed it's uncertain whether Holland would even stay on and for how long. I wonder what'll happen if Sony gets Spider-Man back in their own universe and it fails again. If Tom's out or enough time passes it'll be hard to reintegrate into the MCU again. Plus I don't know if Sony's execs will want to return to Marvel and admit they failed on their own to investors. Maybe they'd use Peter's disappearance from the MCU as a vehicle to set up Miles replacing him or something? It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where the messiness of the behind the scenes deals won't lead to messiness in the story. Even No Way Home seems to risk being messy already.

I think Sony was lucky that Marvel Studios agreed to work with them after TASM2/Sony leaks.

But with how they are doing these villain movies and so aggressively trying to connect those films with MCU Spider-Man films, I doubt that is making Disney happy.

Its only a matter of time when Sony hits another wall and everything for them is rebooted again. Marvel Studios on the other hand, already featured Spider-Man for a couple of films. They don't need to feature Spider-Man for the rest of the mcu to sustain their success.

Great points from both of you. Again, it basically comes down to Tom Holland. He's always going on about how he wants to do what's best for the fans blah blah. If he's serious and he steps away from the character, I can see Sony being in a position to lose the rights to the Spider-Man IP within the next decade.

Having said that, how likely is Holland to walk away from a franchise that is worth umpteen millions to him with each new installment? He definitely works steadily - it seems like a new Tom Holland movie is released weekly over the major streaming services - but still. Of course it's not without precedent. Maguire (reportedly) walked away when Raimi did, while the situation with Garfield is a bit cloudier...

Keep in mind this is all just wishful thinking on my part lol. Still, I really don't like how Sony is diluting the Marvel brand with their ridiculous entries into the Spider-Man mythology. The sooner Disney gets the rights back, the better.

 

[WereCoyote]

So did Marvel/Disney get distribution rights to the Hulk back, since there are rumors of a World War Hulk movie on the docket?

 

[Venom 1988]

So did Marvel/Disney get distribution rights to the Hulk back, since there are rumors of a World War Hulk movie on the docket?

There were rumors/reports last year that they might have but nothing concrete until this WWH news started popping up.

 

[Spider-Fan]

So did Marvel/Disney get distribution rights to the Hulk back, since there are rumors of a World War Hulk movie on the docket?

We don't know for certain. But, maybe?

 

[Frodo]

Great points from both of you. Again, it basically comes down to Tom Holland. He's always going on about how he wants to do what's best for the fans blah blah. If he's serious and he steps away from the character, I can see Sony being in a position to lose the rights to the Spider-Man IP within the next decade.

Having said that, how likely is Holland to walk away from a franchise that is worth umpteen millions to him with each new installment? He definitely works steadily - it seems like a new Tom Holland movie is released weekly over the major streaming services - but still. Of course it's not without precedent. Maguire (reportedly) walked away when Raimi did, while the situation with Garfield is a bit cloudier...

Keep in mind this is all just wishful thinking on my part lol. Still, I really don't like how Sony is diluting the Marvel brand with their ridiculous entries into the Spider-Man mythology. The sooner Disney gets the rights back, the better.

As far as Holland goes, I dunno.

At this point , I wouldn't assume he's a done deal.

I know alot of Marvel fans don't want him to go, but ultimately, he's played the role 6 times already, and he's not gonna play it continuously and forever, even if he signs up for another couple of films.

I do think alot of it may depend on how NWH ends and where his Peter is at and if it ends with a sense of closure for his version of the character ,or, whether things are still hectic and up in the air
with unresolved storylines from NWH yet to be explored.

 

[Bayne]

As far as Holland goes, I dunno.

At this point , I wouldn't assume he's a done deal.

I know alot of Marvel fans don't want him to go, but ultimately, he's played the role 6 times already, and he's not gonna play it continuously and forever, even if he signs up for another couple of films.

I do think alot of it may depend on how NWH ends and where his Peter is at and if it ends with a sense of closure for his version of the character ,or, whether things are still hectic and up in the air
with unresolved storylines from NWH yet to be explored.

I mean, no one can know his mind, but everything we've seen of him indicates he's loving this whole thing. He's the biggest Spider-man fan in the world and he's not really hurting for other non-spidey roles, either. I don't see him walking away from the role anytime soon unless he's forced to or he feels like the movies aren't good enough anymore.

 

[Venom 1988]

If I had to guess, I think Holland is gonna stay but I have a feeling he's gonna take a break for awhile first. He might still pop up in an MCU movie as a guest or in Venom 3, but as a far as another standalone movie, I think they may wait a bit longer. Which might be a good thing tbh, it gives them time to reset and come up with a new status quo for the character.

 

[Frodo]

It's clear he loves the part, but that doesn't mean he won't leave within the next few years.

There aren't any guarantee's or certainties in Hollywood, as much as fandom wishes that there were.

Things change, actors move on, etc, so if he did leave , I wouldn't be surprised really.

Then again, I've lived through several recasts of several different icons roles, so the idea of Holland leaving after 6 films isn't a far fetched or earth shattering idea for me.

I know there are fans who have trouble dealing with that stuff, but I wouldn't see his depture as this world ending thing that alot of other fans would.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I can see Holland doing the Tony Stark thing post Iron Man 3 and taking smaller roles in other films to build up up Sony Spiderverse. Like maybe he is in Venom 3, Kraven, etc

 

[SirStrangefolk]

In my ideal world they'd plan a movie that's planned as the final one eventually where by the end he dies or has to retire or something but it also sets up Miles to take over. And then if Peter's dead but Holland wants back in later Miles could always go up against the Jackal and have 'Peter' mysteriously show up again.

That's not how it'll play out though...

 

[Detective Conan]