Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Part 2

[Heretic]

That is a complete bastardisation of the film. The big thing you've seemed to overlook is that the humans in this story are not acting out of imperial expansion or for profit or natural resources for trade like what has happened throughout history, they were acting out of survival, that is the difference and why comparisons to actual historical events is flawed. The humans are a shadow of the species they were, if anything they've got it worse than the apes. All actions from both sides have some level of justification, humans included.

This is not an exact retelling of history. It takes liberty with the details, which can be done in a science fiction story. It is about people in need entering uncharted (for them) lands and being assisted by the natives...then plotting to kill those natives to get power. It doesn't matter than the original settlers in America didn't have a dam that could provide electricity, the analogy still works. It's one group of people seeing another group as savages who had no real claim to land.

 

[DA_Champion]

Koba was probably the most interesting film version of Stalin I've ever seen!

For a second I was worried that you were referencing the historical figure.

 

[DA_Champion]

If the humans still have a navy I have a hard time conceiving of how the apes could defeat them. Even in this movie the apes were basically minutes from going extinct, all that needed to happen was for Oldman to finish his task.

Perhaps the virus got into the wild and there are now intelligent apes in the wild.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

This is not an exact retelling of history. It takes liberty with the details, which can be done in a science fiction story. It is about people in need entering uncharted (for them) lands and being assisted by the natives...then plotting to kill those natives to get power. It doesn't matter than the original settlers in America didn't have a dam that could provide electricity, the analogy still works. It's one group of people seeing another group as savages who had no real claim to land.

While I admit there's something valid about your colonization view of the story it's just something that has been done to death in sci-fi (everything from War of the Worlds to Avatar) and I'd rather look at other aspects of the film.

 

[DA_Champion]

While I admit there's something valid about your colonization view of the story it's just something that has been done to death in sci-fi (everything from War of the Worlds to Avatar) and I'd rather look at other aspects of the film.

Given that is nothing is truly original it's interesting to ask what are the historical and literary inputs into this movie.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Really enjoyed it. I just wish like the last film they included a bit of a teaser as to where the next film would go?

I'm really curious when the next step to where the apes become the dominators of humans (as per the original series) will originate from? I can't see Caesar being the one to start that.

 

[jmc]

This is not an exact retelling of history. It takes liberty with the details, which can be done in a science fiction story. It is about people in need entering uncharted (for them) lands and being assisted by the natives...then plotting to kill those natives to get power. It doesn't matter than the original settlers in America didn't have a dam that could provide electricity, the analogy still works. It's one group of people seeing another group as savages who had no real claim to land.

It's a flawed analogy once you take into account the intensions from both sides. Again, the humans are out for survival, not imperial gain, they're not battling another country in a quest to simply grab land that they can plant a flag on, they are trying to rebuild some semblance of life for themselves. Sure there are elements of the whole 'white man/native' conflict, but there are also equal elements of genocide and dictatorship from the apes side. Lets not make out the apes are the innocent parties involved here. In some cases the story is a logical and natural progression of events given who certain characters are.

 

[Heretic]

While I admit there's something valid about your colonization view of the story it's just something that has been done to death in sci-fi (everything from War of the Worlds to Avatar) and I'd rather look at other aspects of the film.

True...Sci-Fi does tend to cover the same (or similar) ground often.

In the past 18 months we've had...
Star Trek Into Darkness, a movie about the government working alongside terrorists to achieve a goal, only to lose control over the terrorist.
Iron Man 3, a movie about mega-corporations who seek power by manipulating governments and terrorists for their own ends.
Robocop, a movie about conditioning the public to accept drone warfare.
Captain America: The Winter Soldier, a movie about the government (or, a private security firm who works for the government) having a secret kill list and drones that spy on an assassinate people who are deemed a risk.

Four hit movies...all telling their own versions of the war on terror (including conspiracy theories). One could argue that this gets old...and maybe it does...but I always appreciate a well done version more than a poorly done version (or a movie with no point at all).

 

[Heretic]

It's a flawed analogy once you take into account the intensions from both sides. Again, the humans are out for survival, not imperial gain, they're not battling another country in a quest to simply grab land that they can plant a flag on, they are trying to rebuild some semblance of life for themselves. Sure there are elements of the whole 'white man/native' conflict, but there are also equal elements of genocide and dictatorship from the apes side. Lets not make out the apes are the innocent parties involved here. In some cases the story is a logical and natural progression of events given who certain characters are.

Many descendants of natives claim that the first Thanksgiving feasts were not at all what we are taught, but were actually brutal attacks by settlers where they killed the natives and stole their food, then feasted when they got back to their village. The natives gave them food, and taught them to farm...but greed led them to slaughter and steal. In this movie, the humans don't NEED electricity...but it sure would make things easier...so if war is needed to make them more comfortable, so be it.

I agree...some apes were also in the wrong (clearly). I believe that this should have been saved for a sequel.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

This was an amazing movie. RotPotA was good, and definitely got me excited for this one, but DotPotA made me absolutely love Caesar as a character. He will most definitely be one of my top 10 or so favorite characters in film for a while, I can tell. This is a beautifully constructed cinematic achievement, to say the least. "Rise" was unique in that it allowed for us to care about a CGI protagonist as if he were human. "Dawn" does that with at least 6 different apes. It establishes them as a very real and powerful threat to humanity while making both tribes entirely sympathetic.

 

[Heretic]

Just read this in a review on Vulture...

"One of the best scenes is when Koba does a hilarious ape–Stepin Fetchit act for two drunken human artillery nuts before blowing them away, but there aren’t many laughs beyond that."

So...I'm not the only one who caught that it was a scene playing up the old racist entertainment.

 

[DA_Champion]

Just read this in a review on Vulture...

"One of the best scenes is when Koba does a hilarious ape–Stepin Fetchit act for two drunken human artillery nuts before blowing them away, but there aren’t many laughs beyond that."

So...I'm not the only one who caught that it was a scene playing up the old racist entertainment.

It's not quite that simple.

Yes, Koba is behaving as a stereotype, but what we see is the stupidity of the two humans who cannot conceive of Koba being smart, rather than of Koba the clown. We the audience know that Koba is faking, he's using the arrogance of the humans against them.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

This movie is my best of the year so far.

However, can we all agree that the major flaw was not enough Keri Russell?

 

[kedrell]

Just got back and I really liked it.

9.0/10

The only main complaint that I have is that when the humans were talking much of the time it was hard to hear what they were saying. Maybe it was my theater that was causing the problem or maybe Reeves should have told them to speak up more. I dunno but that's the only thing that bugged me.

 

[DA_Champion]

This movie is my best of the year so far.

However, can we all agree that the major flaw was not enough Keri Russell?

Beautiful woman who is ageing really well. Good role, could have dealt with more of her, but this movie had a large cast and spent a lot of time on action set pieces.

 

[Heretic]

It's not quite that simple.

Yes, Koba is behaving as a stereotype, but what we see is the stupidity of the two humans who cannot conceive of Koba being smart, rather than of Koba the clown. We the audience know that Koba is faking, he's using the arrogance of the humans against them.

OF COURSE! He was playing the racial stereotype "dumb monkey" shuck and jive to appease the two moronic racists. He didnt do it BECAUSE he's a dumb monkey. White people viewed blacks as the Bojangles/Stepin Fetchit character. Some blacks obviously felt that acting these roles broke down barriers for their race...but history doesn't look too kindly on the stereotype.

 

[Frodo]

Thought it was great but was let down by Russell's character. She's kinda my TV crush after watching the Americans and once you've seen how badass Elizabeth is , its hard to see her as the peaceful, supportive girlfriend/love interest. Still though, she did a good job with what she was given and its not like I regretted seeing her on the big screen.

I liked DOPOTA better than the first one actually and it really did remind me alot more of the original films.

I give it a 10 out of 10. I'd put it up there with Captain America Winter Soilder, Spiderman 2, Empire Strikes Back and TDK in terms of sequels which surpass the original.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Really enjoyed it. I just wish like the last film they included a bit of a teaser as to where the next film would go?

I'm really curious when the next step to where the apes become the dominators of humans (as per the original series) will originate from? I can't see Caesar being the one to start that.

I believe the one to take it to the next step where Apes dominate over humans will be with one of Caesar's sons. I can just eee the seeds of familial feuding for leadership planted in this movie, perhaps even one betraying Caesar when it seems like Caesar's actions may work against Ape dominance.

 

[Silvermoth]

Koba was probably the most interesting film version of Stalin I've ever seen!

I thought he was more of a hitler.

Spoiler

1. Burning down the apes town = burning down the reichstag.

2. Assassination of ceaser = ending the Weimar Republic

3. Koba being clearly f****d in the head and a survivor of traumatic violence = hitler with the chemical warfare

Of course it might also be a Roman Empire thing

 

[Godzilla2000]

Maybe Koba represents all tyrannical despots, not just Hitler. Stalin, he didn't care about the Russian people at all. He let soldiers die in massive numbers during WW II by under equipping them. He'd give every other soldier a gun. The soldier without a gun would then scramble for the fallen comrade killed in battle who had one. They don't like to say this in history books but Russia almost fell to the Nazis because of Stalin's apathy. A bit of this was represented with Koba's character arc. Also you could say there is a bit of Saddam Houssein or Kim Jong Il nuttiness. Like I said Koba represents the fascist, tyrannical, militaristic mind set of most despots, not just one.

 

[Superhero 101]

I just came back liked the film give it a 9/10 I still like the first one better though

 

[DA_Champion]

Maybe Koba represents all tyrannical despots, not just Hitler. Stalin, he didn't care about the Russian people at all. He let soldiers die in massive numbers during WW II by under equipping them. He'd give every other soldier a gun. The soldier without a gun would then scramble for the fallen comrade killed in battle who had one. They don't like to say this in history books but Russia almost fell to the Nazis because of Stalin's apathy. A bit of this was represented with Koba's character arc. Also you could say there is a bit of Saddam Houssein or Kim Jong Il nuttiness. Like I said Koba represents the fascist, tyrannical, militaristic mind set of most despots, not just one.

Total misreading of Joseph Stalin's political trajectory.

When Stalin took over Russia, the country was under face of annihilation and genocide from England/Germany who had aspirations to take over the territory. Russia was rich in natural resources but was not economically advanced. You go to 1933 (for example) and a reasonable prediction for world history would be a Lebensraum policy for Germany backed by the British Empire -- which would have necessitated comprehensive extermination of the Slavic nations to the benefit of Germanic peoples, the comparison made at the time was to the extermination of the native Americans, and how that helped the Anglo-Saxon race.

Stalin's strategy was to industrialise as fast as possible and to build a strong military. Some 30 million Russians died in the course of that, but it would have been several hundred million Russians otherwise. The reason the Soviet army almost fell at Stalingrad as that they were fighting a more technologically and economically advanced adversary (Germany). The fact Russia won there marks a historical exception to the rule of technological superiority winning wars.

 

[Golgo-13]

Really enjoyed it. I just wish like the last film they included a bit of a teaser as to where the next film would go?

I'm really curious when the next step to where the apes become the dominators of humans (as per the original series) will originate from? I can't see Caesar being the one to start that.

Me neither. I assume Caesar will at some point be killed by a fellow ape (just like his Roman counter-part of the same name) and then the brutal eradication of the human race will begin.

Since the writers have recently stated that this does exist in the same timeline as the original Heston film, we can expect the humans at some point to use a nuke/s. This will ultimately cause the barren wasteland look of the original film, not to mention causing humans to loose their ability to speak, create humans with telepathic abilities..and perhaps the apes themselves, to evolve even more.

 

[titansupes]

Revised estimates for opening weekend put this at $72-74mil.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Revised estimates for opening weekend put this at $72-74mil.

That would be great.

Anything over 70 m is pretty good.