Jurassic World: Dominion

[DarkKnight]

I mean, yes but also no. Fossil and geological dating methods have been overall pretty reliable for the last few centuries, and when there are errors they're not usually on the magnitude of tens of millions of years and across different continents that weren't connected... There's ways to have written this to keep it accurate -- especially since the producers and seemingly the text of the movie itself made a big thing about how this was supposed the "accurate" portion of the film. I made this the other day because I know it's gonna come in handy at the museum I work at...

I'm 95% confident they're gonna pull a "genetic memory" thing with the Giganotosaurus-T. rex feud and it'll be extra silly. I don't see how that's essential storytelling, and I don't know why not have the big opening fight just be the T. rex vs a Triceratops, you know, the two most famous dinosaurs everyone knows that actually lived together and have barely shared any screen time in this series. Tell the story of this bad boy:

T. rex is such a chad of a dinosaur even by theropod standards because it was hunting these living tanks, and Triceratops is the only member of its family to have a completely solid frill, probably as a defensive measure against T. rex specifically. The story elements are right there, given by nature...

Moreover, they clearly just reused the models for creatures they had already and tweaked them slightly. I'll give them credit for not making the T. rex feathers look as wrong as they could be, but otherwise it's still wrong.

Spoiler pics, if they're allowed here (they're already all over Twitter):

Spoiler

I'm not arguing what is right or wrong. I do not have the background the education nor studied enough to fully understand. I'm a fan of paleontology, I enjoy reading articles and appreciate all of that. But that is where it ends for me.
All I'm saying is that I will have a open mind and wont be bothered by it because its a movie and the things I mentioned before is my easy way of escaping and excepting what I'm seeing.
The biggest things I'm excited for is getting to see the scene taking place millions of years ago and getting to see more "current Paleo correct" dinosaurs with quills and feathers etc.

 

[DarkKnight88]

I mean, yes but also no. Fossil and geological dating methods have been overall pretty reliable for the last few centuries, and when there are errors they're not usually on the magnitude of tens of millions of years and across different continents that weren't connected... There's ways to have written this to keep it accurate -- especially since the producers and seemingly the text of the movie itself made a big thing about how this was supposed the "accurate" portion of the film. I made this the other day because I know it's gonna come in handy at the museum I work at...

I'm 95% confident they're gonna pull a "genetic memory" thing with the Giganotosaurus-T. rex feud and it'll be extra silly. I don't see how that's essential storytelling, and I don't know why not have the big opening fight just be the T. rex vs a Triceratops, you know, the two most famous dinosaurs everyone knows that actually lived together and have barely shared any screen time in this series. Tell the story of this bad boy:

T. rex is such a chad of a dinosaur even by theropod standards because it was hunting these living tanks, and Triceratops is the only member of its family to have a completely solid frill, probably as a defensive measure against T. rex specifically. The story elements are right there, given by nature...

Moreover, they clearly just reused the models for creatures they had already and tweaked them slightly. I'll give them credit for not making the T. rex feathers look as wrong as they could be, but otherwise it's still wrong.

Spoiler pics, if they're allowed here (they're already all over Twitter):

Spoiler

No matter what they do, the science in these movies will always be dated a few years down the line. So I give the whole thing a pass.

I mean, they've now cloned monster dinosaurs, trained Raptors for military use etc. Yes, a T-Rex vs a Trike would be very beautiful to watch. But they're going for BIG on an IMAX screen. For that, you can give some leeway for what's the most exciting visually with two huge carnivores.

Spielberg basically invented the frills on the Dilophosaurus cause it looked cool. Yes, not scientifically accurate, but verisimilitude. If it's true to the world of the movie, then that's more than fine with me.

Now if there was an accurate Walking with Dinosaurs film (not one where they talk in voiceover lol), which claims to be an accurate portrayal of dinosaurs during their time, then we can be a little more critical on the specifics.

 

[Melpardus]

Eh, I respectfully disagree with the "it's just a movie" thing, especially now. I was genuinely ready to let it go and give all the other movies (and the bulk of this one) a decent amount of leeway in their depictions because Trevorrow and Universal have been saying for over a year or so now that Dominion will have "real" dinosaurs and drive home the "Nothing in Jurassic World is natural" line, which was obviously supposed to shut up the paleo critics in the first place. I wasn't even expecting them to go back in time for a Cretaceous segment, I just thought it was gonna be a case of Other companies have more complete genomes so they can make more accurate clones, and even then I wasn't expecting much.

So why hype that up and make a big show of hiring a new (and more popular) paleo consultant in response to people they know will be critiquing the dino science, and then go and undercut that theme with such a basic error as putting dinosaurs from across 60+ million years all together in one environment when all it takes is a couple minutes on Wikipedia to avoid that issue? There's whole articles out there dedicated to how they "redesigned" the T. rex for the opening, but feathers aside there's no change made (that we can see anyway) and JP T. rex has been more or less wrong for over two decades now, and even though there's still plenty of variation in specific takes, overall what we know of the real animal makes it bulkier and more physically impressive than the JP version. It's like they actively want to avoid looking cool.

Also, giant theropod fights have been seen and done before a decent amount in this series; I don't think this really brings anything fresh or new, just a rehash of JPIII and JW's Indominus.

 

[Broseph44]

No matter what they do, the science in these movies will always be dated a few years down the line. So I give the whole thing a pass.

I mean, they've now cloned monster dinosaurs, trained Raptors for military use etc. Yes, a T-Rex vs a Trike would be very beautiful to watch. But they're going for BIG on an IMAX screen. For that, you can give some leeway for what's the most exciting visually with two huge carnivores.

Spielberg basically invented the frills on the Dilophosaurus cause it looked cool. Yes, not scientifically accurate, but verisimilitude. If it's true to the world of the movie, then that's more than fine with me.

Now if there was an accurate Walking with Dinosaurs film (not one where they talk in voiceover lol), which claims to be an accurate portrayal of dinosaurs during their time, then we can be a little more critical on the specifics.

Bingo. People making a big deal of some things I just find funny and laughable honestly at this point. Just my two cents. Anyway, saw two leaked pics. Looks gorgeous

 

[Melpardus]

Last bit of creature design goodwill I was reserving is gone; paleontology friend in Indonesia just saw it. He said it's an okay-executed scene but the designs for the new creatures that were made specifically for this film also failed basic dino anatomy. (The ones that should have wings either don't or are completely wrong.) Why do they even bother hiring consultants if this is gonna be the result? Literally had one job.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Fair enough and you're definitely entitled to your thoughts. But I think at this point you and Jurassic World should just see other people.

 

[DarkKnight]

Last bit of creature design goodwill I was reserving is gone; paleontology friend in Indonesia just saw it. He said it's an okay-executed scene but the designs for the new creatures that were made specifically for this film also failed basic dino anatomy. (The ones that should have wings either don't or are completely wrong.) Why do they even bother hiring consultants if this is gonna be the result? Literally had one job.

Your Paleontologist friend as well as paleontologists in general must be an absolute blast to hang out with at parties discussing dinosaur films just to hear how nothing is right

I do NOT mean that as and insult, I genuinely find it funny when I think about them sitting around a table and discussing why the the dino's didn't look right or how this dino didn't exist here or there. Especially when you take into consideration that the vast majority of movie goers and fans of the franchise don't care nor have the education to realize the representation on film is not necessarily 100% accurate. The franchise has pretty much always been self aware of this. From the Velociraptors standing in as tall if not taller than Utah Raptors, The Dilophosaurus having hood frills and spitting poison and not to mentioned the creation of the dinos with various DNA of other animals has in my opinion been the perfect excuse for them not to be perfect. As we said earlier, Dino Anatomy is always being updated. If I remember correct, when the fist JP films was released, they used the a lot of the current Paleo Anatomy that was know at the time. Even with certain creative freedom for some dinosaurs. I remember when T-Rex was positioned as a upright standing and walking tail dragger dinosaur from books and older films before Jurassic Park etc. The transition or should I say mix of skin, scales, feathers etc. The fact that the franchise is even doing this flashback for more "Paleo correct" dinosaurs amazes me and cannot wait to see it.

I even agree about the Theropod fights and bigger and badder trope the series has always used. While Yes, I'd love to see a Triceratops vs a Rex or other big Therapod; Its bigger and badder and more teeth that sells tickets and used for promotion. Giga Vs humans and Rexy will be the big scary selling point here likely. Based on things I've read from leaks, cast member social media accounts, the Giga is the new "Monster" for this film. All will be known eventually, but I feel confident in that speculation again based on what I've read.

I can totally respect your want for more accurate paleo science and anatomy. I really can. But in this franchise, it has obviously never been a priority and I'm 100% ok with that. I'm happy they are giving something to the hardcore Paleo crowd though, even if they wont be 100% happy due to it featuring dinosaurs from wrong eras or still wrong anatomy. The fact they are doing it excites me.

 

[DarkKnight]

No matter what they do, the science in these movies will always be dated a few years down the line. So I give the whole thing a pass.

I mean, they've now cloned monster dinosaurs, trained Raptors for military use etc. Yes, a T-Rex vs a Trike would be very beautiful to watch. But they're going for BIG on an IMAX screen. For that, you can give some leeway for what's the most exciting visually with two huge carnivores.

Spielberg basically invented the frills on the Dilophosaurus cause it looked cool. Yes, not scientifically accurate, but verisimilitude. If it's true to the world of the movie, then that's more than fine with me.

Now if there was an accurate Walking with Dinosaurs film (not one where they talk in voiceover lol), which claims to be an accurate portrayal of dinosaurs during their time, then we can be a little more critical on the specifics.

I would love a quality big budget Paleo film like that. As you said a Walking with Dinosaurs film without the documentary style voice over.
There is money to be made there. If other studios could get a big budget quality Dinosaur film or series going it could be huge as well. I'd welcome it for sure!

 

[henzINNIT]

It would seem the appeal of a 'flashback' would be to show something that could have existed. This is literally a franchise that can pluck animals from any era and have them fight in any other scene, so I understand the disappointment in wanting this flashback to be something different.

 

[The Shape]

Fair enough and you're definitely entitled to your thoughts. But I think at this point you and Jurassic World should just see other people.

LOL. That Malpardus guy cracks me up. He's been complaining about dinosaur anatomy and realism in these (totally fictional) movies for years now. Weird flex but okay.

 

[ironwez20]

Also the trex having feathers things seems to have been debunked. They had proto feathers as babies but scaly as adults. So now the trex is double inaccurate

 

[DarkKnight88]

How accurate is this?

 

[henzINNIT]

Kids will look at that dinosaur and that phone box as equally prehistoric items won't they?

 

[lime]

Can someone PM me those pictures? or a link?

 

[Punisher_MAX]

LOL. That Malpardus guy cracks me up. He's been complaining about dinosaur anatomy and realism in these (totally fictional) movies for years now. Weird flex but okay.

I've loved dinosaurs since I was a kid and even wanted to be a paleontologist growing up but jeez the crying over anatomical accuracy and whatever else in a Sci fi movie? I guarantee you not a single damn casual person cares, and kids who go into this will just love seeing these dinosaurs depicted in their fiction environment.

I love to see younger kids passionate about dinosaurs, or hell even adults, so I couldn't give a single **** that it pisses off "academics" cause movies like this drum up interest in a subject I love and hope to see more of.

 

[Doctor Jones]

If the dinosaurs were more accurate their movies would be boring. That's it. Go watch a documentary if you want accuracy.

 

[Melpardus]

I like how some folks remember me on here from a few years ago and ignore my pointing out how pervasive the Jurassic Park/World influence is on other dinosaur projects Hollywood and otherwise, including things that are supposed to be educational but then end up kowtowing to the sci-fi/pop culture representation because "accurate dinosaurs are boring" say the execs and at least some of the audience. There's like three or four documentaries that are good escaped this, and they're all well over 15 years old at this point, so yeah, it is a little frustrating. I know it seems silly but it's not a nothing burger to those of us who actually ended up becoming or at least pursuing an academic career relating to paleo/evolution and want to share that interest and knowledge only to have the biggest franchise of the genre as its figurehead just actively casting this long shadow and disregarding everything we're doing/learning. Most of y'all are here because you like comic book movies, so surely you know how it feels to have a movie misrepresent a character you like and have devoted some amount of emotional energy into for whatever reason. It's like, I wanna like this but it's hard to...

Also the trex having feathers things seems to have been debunked. They had proto feathers as babies but scaly as adults. So now the trex is double inaccurate

It's still up in the air; I wouldn't recommend it be as fuzzy as the image seems to show, but elephant levels of fuzz is fine. As far as feathers on T. rex go, they could've done a lot worse actually, so I'll give them that.

Can someone PM me those pictures? or a link?

I posted them one or two pages back in a spoiler tag; I'm assuming they're still there? That said, there's a counter rumor going around that they might be fake, though my friend who saw the full clip it didn't suggest or indicate that. So take a pinch of salt to them I guess.

It would seem the appeal of a 'flashback' would be to show something that could have existed. This is literally a franchise that can pluck animals from any era and have them fight in any other scene, so I understand the disappointment in wanting this flashback to be something different.

This.

Your Paleontologist friend as well as paleontologists in general must be an absolute blast to hang out with at parties discussing dinosaur films just to hear how nothing is right

I do NOT mean that as and insult, I genuinely find it funny when I think about them sitting around a table and discussing why the the dino's didn't look right or how this dino didn't exist here or there. Especially when you take into consideration that the vast majority of movie goers and fans of the franchise don't care nor have the education to realize the representation on film is not necessarily 100% accurate. The franchise has pretty much always been self aware of this. From the Velociraptors standing in as tall if not taller than Utah Raptors, The Dilophosaurus having hood frills and spitting poison and not to mentioned the creation of the dinos with various DNA of other animals has in my opinion been the perfect excuse for them not to be perfect. As we said earlier, Dino Anatomy is always being updated. If I remember correct, when the fist JP films was released, they used the a lot of the current Paleo Anatomy that was know at the time. Even with certain creative freedom for some dinosaurs. I remember when T-Rex was positioned as a upright standing and walking tail dragger dinosaur from books and older films before Jurassic Park etc. The transition or should I say mix of skin, scales, feathers etc. The fact that the franchise is even doing this flashback for more "Paleo correct" dinosaurs amazes me and cannot wait to see it.

I even agree about the Theropod fights and bigger and badder trope the series has always used. While Yes, I'd love to see a Triceratops vs a Rex or other big Therapod; Its bigger and badder and more teeth that sells tickets and used for promotion. Giga Vs humans and Rexy will be the big scary selling point here likely. Based on things I've read from leaks, cast member social media accounts, the Giga is the new "Monster" for this film. All will be known eventually, but I feel confident in that speculation again based on what I've read.

I can totally respect your want for more accurate paleo science and anatomy. I really can. But in this franchise, it has obviously never been a priority and I'm 100% ok with that. I'm happy they are giving something to the hardcore Paleo crowd though, even if they wont be 100% happy due to it featuring dinosaurs from wrong eras or still wrong anatomy. The fact they are doing it excites me.

You should check out Paleontology Coproliteposting; I think they're just a FB group of professionals and casual enthusiasts and everything in-between. Niche as ever, but it's a good time. A handful of the memes that originated there actually went viral for brief periods.

 

[Broseph44]

I've loved dinosaurs since I was a kid and even wanted to be a paleontologist growing up but jeez the crying over anatomical accuracy and whatever else in a Sci fi movie? I guarantee you not a single damn casual person cares, and kids who go into this will just love seeing these dinosaurs depicted in their fiction environment.

I love to see younger kids passionate about dinosaurs, or hell even adults, so I couldn't give a single **** that it pisses off "academics" cause movies like this drum up interest in a subject I love and hope to see more of.

I’m the same as you man. And you hit the nail on the head

 

[Gothamsknight]

I saw two pics, hypeeeeee

Same!

 

[DarkKnight]

How accurate is this?

Isnt that the Paul Walker Dinosaur from that 90's movie he did called Tammy and the T-Rex?

Regardless.......... Dr. Grant has a lot more to worry about now huh.... Jurassic Park, Raptors learned to open doors. Jurassic World dominion, T-Rex can use a phone to call for back-up... cwink:

 

[Kane52630]

Tammy and the T-Rex is true classic cinema.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Tammy and the T-Rex is true classic cinema.

Yes, but is it scientifically accurate to how dinosaurs were in 1994?

 

[Kane52630]

1,000%.

 

[Deck Rickard]

What do ya’ll think is the absolute WORST dinosaur movie of all time? I don’t know if it counts, but I remember watching this movie called Future War on MST3K where this Jean-Claude Van Damme lookalike was sent back in time to prevent an apocalypse caused by a bunch of 3-foot tyrannosaurs. It was hilarious trash.

 

[henzINNIT]

This.

You make sense to me. Hollywood has a stupidity problem. It is frustrating to be better informed about something than the people given millions to recreate them. Frustrating that they'll consult experts only to do whatever anyway, and then claim credit as if they've done the research.

Whenever I've encountered someone who has this sort of gripe, they can be interpreted as a buzz-kill; but they're normally the most enthusiastic in many ways, and want to marvel at what dinosaurs really were, which is awesome enough. Not only do I get that, I think this was essential to the magic of Jurassic Park and something we've lost more and more as films have progressed.